I look at the threads and 1 thing jumps out at me. It is distinct too. Most, not all of the fans on here are arguing about or happy to go 8-8 or to just make the playoffs. Gosh what happen to the winning culture of this once proud Team? Have the fans been beat into submission? Man, that is sad. Sad that a lot of us have been reduced to that. I am not trying to stir up **** but to just see what you guys think has gone wrong. I saw an interview with Don Shula talking about the 71 season and what a failure it was. My goodness the Dolphins were in the super-bowl. "A Failure" - Don Shula Then Mr Shula talked about the 72 season and how anything short of a super-bowl win would have also been a failure. " Didn't matter", said Don Shula "We could have been 16-1, and if the 1 was the last game, the season would have been a failure." Seems to me like we need an attitude adjustment as fans. 8-8 IS CRAP. Lets not pretend your smarter then me either by claiming its baby steps. What happened to us?
Nothing happened to us. 31 teams "fail" every year. We have no privilege or right to be the best team every season. That doesn't mean we should settle for being average, but it means its normal.
You're* Seriously though, over a decade of terrible coaching and drafting breeds cynicism in our fan base. Most of us here don't equate 8-8 to success at all.
I have to respectfully disagree. Sorry to use New England but there is so much on about them that its hard not to. The expectation level there is that they will go to and win the super-bowl every year. It's buying in and believing. Bellicheck and his staff do a great job with it. So good that some star players are willing to play for less money just because they know.......and thus contribute making the team even better. Even the announcers and analysts currently have them ranked in the top 5 again. What does this due for overall confidence and swagger. Oh wait, we aint got none of that here ( sorry couldn't resist) How much better is the team overall because most, not all who are the best at their positions wants to play there?
What star player has gone to NE for less money recently. Also by your standards NE is a set of horrible failures because they haven't won the big game in a while. Also there is no way NE is a top five team this year. I would barely rank them in the top ten. Aside from all this I dont think the topic is worth debating too hard. Our expectations as fans have absolutely zero impact on the product on the field.
Maybe not equate but accept? The banner flying that day was a start. What else can be done? What message can we send Ross. The atmosphere of this team on any given day, it is different. Is Bellicheck really all that? Or is a lot of what he accomplishes year after year a product of his system?
The difference is tom Brady. Not all of it but mostly. Thy absolutely lucked in to a hall of fame qb with 199th pick. Have you read 'war room'? If we had Brady we'd expect that too. The dolphins don't suck but they don't rock either. It's not about settling for mediocrity. It's not about wanting baby steps. Demanding a super bowl isn't gonna bring one. A cultural shift will. A rational plan from front to back to put the best players in the positions to win. A coaching staff who upskill players. A scouting system which sees talent in unfancied players. Players who want to win so desperately that their only goal is glory for the team. I think we have some elements. Not all.
Our expectations have zero impact? If Coke or Pepsi made a crappy tasting product would we continue to buy it. No we wouldn't and the expectation level is very high. If the I phone was dog slow would people buy it? No they wouldn't. The expectation level is very high and thus we are given a quality product. Are our standards part of our problem? We EXPECT these products to perform. If we don't we quit buying them
There is another thread talking about the 72 interview with Shula. If you haven't had a chance to check it out, it is a must for any Dolphins fan. Dude we were bad *** and everyone thought it. These guys would have punched your teeth down your throat and asked questions later. I have not seen that level of buy in or that level of confidence ---EVER. It was amazing to see and the fans where out of their mind. Man I want that back soooooo bad.
Those products are nothing like an NFL team. With those products it's easy to make positive changes. Our problems havent been from a lack of effort. It isnt easy to find the right players, coaches and staff because 31 teams want them too. The products you mentioned are basically mini-monopolies that can buy out and crush any competition. You cant do that in football. If we stop buying tickets the team will move eventually and may still suck in the meantime.
I get your point. It was just such a contrast to what I have seen lately between Shula and Philbin. Please don't get me wrong I am not trying to turn this into a bash Philbin thread, I was just struck by how different the contrast is. Then I compared Shula to some of the other great coaches, Landry, Bryant, Bellicheck, Lombardi and you notice a lot of similarities. The excitement, the confidence, the urgency. Do we have that here? Now? Is this something we can grow into?
The Dolphins in '71 and '72 had the best coach in football, the most dominant running game in football with Pro Bowl caliber players - at the time - in Csonka, Little, Langer, Keuchenberg, and an all pro WR in Paul Warfield (he already was that when he came to Miami). Plus a technician at QB in Bob Griese. They had proven themselves in '70 with a 10-4 record and an epic playoff win over KC, 27-24 in the longest game in NFL history. There's that. There is optimism when there is a reason for optimism. It has nothing to do with fans. It has to do with the team and coaching and GM and everything else. Right now the team could come together and become a very good competitive team. But, there are so many question-marks that 8-8, 9-7 is not an unrealistic or even pessimistic prediction. It's better than predicting 4-12! But, the team could come together and get 10-11 wins if every question-mark falls in place. The reality is that teams that have this many question-marks and new players, with a QB that has yet to crack 90 in QBR, are simply impossible to predict. It has nothing to do with fans, it has to do with reality. I'm sure Bronco fans are expecting 12 wins because they know who they have at QB and they know the talent that is there. Right now, however, questions abound: Will RT be able to throw a deep ball effectively? Will the four newcomers on the OL jell? Or, will they have the talent, outside of Albert and Pouncey, to play consistent and effective? Will Mike Wallace step up and be effective? Will the #3-4-5 WRs prove themselves better than in the past? Will the RB's be much improved? (Moreno will surely be a better blocker but you are looking at basically a career 3.9-4.0 ypc RB). Will the the team finally find a 2nd TE? Will Lazor bring in a truly effective attack offense or will he fall into what many coordinators do - conservative predictability? (We just don't know because he hasn't been an OC in the NFL and he has not been a super innovative dominant coach elsewhere so far). Will the CB position be better or worse? Will Miami actually use Dion Jordan effectively? Will the S positions be even as good, let alone better - given Delmas has not been as consistent as Clemons? Will the bad play at LB actually be improved - given a low end draft pick? These are the kinds of questions that show up on non-playoff calibre teams but are not likely to appear on teams like the Broncos, Seahawks, etc. A coach should demand and expect excellence. So should the players. If they were predicting 8-8, that would be different. But, fans have no real impact on the outcome (except showing up to fill the stands and cheering loudly for the home team 8 times a season). All they can do is look at the reality of the team and then go root for them when they are on the field. Every fan wants their team to go 19-0. Their realism doesn't change their desire. Two different things. I think instead of asking what has happened to the fans, the question is, what has happened to the franchise? The answer starts in ownership decision-making and the lack of fortune in finding a great coach. It would seem that finding a great coach for the right team and a great GM to draft the right players is about as easy as locating a HOF QB in the 4th or 5th round of the draft. But, hope springs eternal. I'm hoping all those questions are answered positively and that RT will be another great Dolphin QB and we become a great team.
The problem is that most of the people on this forum are too young to remember when the Dolphins were a top NFL franchise, year in and year out. So they use excuses like, "most teams in the NFL are average or below". I guess if average or below is all you have seen from this team for the majority of the years you have been a fan, mediocre seems normal. Since I have been a fan since 1966, nothing short of winning a Super Bowl will ever completely satisfy me as a Dolphin fan. To me, if you are not the SB winner, your season was a complete failure. I agree with you 100%, 8-8 seasons are complete crap. Especially when this team has been in rebuilding mode ever since this ownership purchased the team nearly six years ago.
Good post. Touches on some of the points I was eluding to. Of course it begs even more questions such as: Has enough been done? I am inclined to say the answer is probably no. But this seems to be the rut we are in. We will win a few games, skirt making the playoffs and be wondering what are we not doing that we should be? It is mostly blamed on the talent, at least over the last 10-12 years it has. Is there a way to analyze the teams that are consistently good? What are some of those attributes thta make them winning organizations. I believe it starts at the expectation level, does that start with the fan or the owner?
I agree 100% that 8-8 isn't acceptable or what we should strive for. I personally see us as 10-6 this season which is a good year in the modern NFL and gives you a chance to win it all. My only point is that I'm not sure what we as fans can do. Not going to games sounds nice...but what if this really is a 10-6 or 11-5 team but we finish 6-10 because we completely lose our home field advantage? Fans screamed for Ireland to be gone for a long time...did our screaming work? I don't think so honestly.
I watched and became a Dolphins fan when I was 15yrs old. I'm now in my 40s and have seen jack from my team for....well 20yrs. Patriots have supplanted the Phins for last decade...Bills before that. I just keep holding on and hope we make a Superbowl before i reach retirement age. We've had great players during that time..Jason Taylor, Zack Thomas, Ricky Williams, Cameron Wake, Richmond Webb, Surtain, Madison..etc etc....not a great team, just great players. I'm still waiting.
I think I have made it clear in the past where I stand on Ireland. I was a fan and although I questioned some of the moves and things he said. Blaming the teams woes on one guy seems like a bandaid. I hope I am wrong. Not looking for a crystal ball and I understand we have to wait and see. But I am Optimistic but apprehensive at the same time. I am not a football God, thank you but I can recognize success from past and current successful franchises. We still seem to be missing some of those intangibles.
We certainly are. I don't disagree with that. Im just wondering how we as fans provide that...I mean I dont think its possible to do more than fly planes with banners attached to them and that didn't get any immediate result. If I feel like if the team flat out isnt trying to improve....that is another story. I mean that is why I went from a die hard Marlin fan to not caring about the team almost at all. I see the effort to get better though, and Tannehill taking an equal leap as he was able to take year one to year two will make us a much much improved franchise.
Put it another way, when Dan Marino was in his prime, every year I was hoping thought we had a realistic chance to get to the SB because we had Dan Marino and Don Shula. They were proven commodities. We have unproven commodities. But, it really starts with a good ownership who can locate leadership talent (i.e. GM/Coaching) and then support them all the way. That's not easy to do - think about how long Paul Allen owned the Seahawks and they were mired in mediocrity virtually the entire time (17 years) until they hired Pete Carroll. And Seattle fans have long been rabid fans but that didn't change anything until Carroll got there. Even with the Carroll hire there was some doubt as to whether he would excel. For some time, college coaches had failed at the NFL level (see Nick Saban). But, Allen had and has all the money in the world to spend on research etc. He's been there since he bought the team in '97 and they still did not develop a solid winning team until just a couple of seasons ago. The one factor I will grant is that a tight, loud stadium, with 80K crazy fans could help in some games and that could push a mediocre team into a couple of extra wins. But, that really doesn't have as much to do with what fans realistically predict. I can expect my team will lose but I will still cheer them like crazy. Most fans of a mediocre college basketball team don't expect their team to beat the # team in the nation but they will root like crazy when that team comes in to play their team, expectations or not.
There is nothing to be excited about. Dolphins are a team full of average players, except maybe Brent Grimes. So we really have no star players. We know before the season starts that its going to be another mediocre season just like the past 15 years.
You are able to articulate what I was thinking better then me. The contrasting difference between the two thought process' is startling. Of course the owner is going to take "baby steps" it is all that the fans demand. Until we bring back that knock you in the teeth attitude and nothing short of perfection is acceptable (some call it swagger) we are destined for continued 8-8 seasons. We don't see Brady and Company settling for 10-6. If they are not at least 12-4, 13-3 they are pissed and consider the season a total loss. Because the idea and goal is to win the super-bowl. That is what we play for. If we are 2nd we are losers.
People hate negativity. I get it. I am unfortunately a class is half empty guy. But I am that way because by nature I am a fixer. I have had upwards of 80 employees and was able to manage the daily tasks as well as the long term administrative goals by delegating and not waiting to make changes. Lets take Tannehill for example. Love the kid but the reality is he probably will never be the next Dan Marino. If he was we would have already known. Me, right or wrong I would have drafted Johnny Football. We had the opportunity and passed it by. I don't need to see 4 seasons of mediocre play to call a spade a spade. I hate that itsa pessimistic view and their are many on this board that will disagree. Personally I would move the franchise forward. I also think Philbin threw it out there to see fan reaction and when he got what he got, which was some minor uproar with dis belief he backed down. My point that fans do sometimes effect the state of a franchise. If it wasn't true why do we covet home field "advantage" and the "12th man" It's the excitement that is in the air that makes those average players play better then they really are.
Yeah just gunna put it out there that i disagree with "superbowl or youre a failure". Seems pretty silly
Also... did you say in the OP that there are fans who are "happy" with 8-8 ? You literally couldnt be more offbase. There are fans who would demand we fire philbin and cut tannehill if we won the superbowl next season. I wish i was exaggerating.
Why do you disagree. The object of the season is to win the super-bowl. There are no points for second place
If anybody is expecting the 'next' Marino..forget it. Not going to happen. We do not need another Marino. Just a team of players that can play better than the opposition on a regular basis. Not rocket science. Dolphins have been so average the last 20yrs its become the norm.
Wow. Great thread. Many good reads. I was not a fan until the early 80's. By then we were one of the elite franchises in the league. After the Superbowl in 1984 we were tied with Dallas for most Super Bowl appearances (5) and we had a young QB that had taken the league by storm setting all kinds of records. It was a great time to be a Dolphins fan. In 1985 we were the only team to beat the Bears. My favorite game of all time. How cool was that? We stuck it to arguably the best defensive team in NFL history. Missed a rematch in the SB because of those damn Patriots that came into the Orange Bowl and won there for the first time ever. (most disappointing loss for me ever) In '86 the offense was still a dynamo but the wheels were starting to fall off on our defense. The highlight of that season was the 51-45 OT loss to the Jets which to this day is probably the best "shootout" of all time between 2 QBs. In '87 the new stadium opened. This was the beginning of the end of an era and we probably didn't know it. I have never been to the Orange Bowl but it seemed to have a mystique about it. Something the new stadium has never had. Fast forward to the early 90's. This was our last good team. Had it not been for the Bills, we probably would've at least been in another SB or maybe even 2. Damn those Bills. I live close to Buffalo and those were hard times for me as a Dolphins fan. They played that "The Bills Make Me Wanna Shout" song 40 times a day on tv and radio. Sick.....just sick. Since then We've had nothing but mediocre teams. A few really bad ones mixed in. The franchise has totally lost it's luster. Most Miami fans are like me, that started liking them years ago, or like them because their fathers did. The team just isn't the same and hasn't been for almost 20 years. There are so many reasons. One building off of another. Poor coaching, poor team management, poor drafting. When Shula left it was almost like we lost our brand. Losing the Orange Bowl was bad enough, but Shula too? We still haven't recovered. Mediocrity has turned into the expectation. Nobody even expects excellence anymore because they haven't seen it in so long. Some fans have never seen it or ever experienced a really good Dolphins team. Until we can be more of a forward thinking team instead of ALWAYS trying plug in last year's holes, it will be difficult to expect any different. But we are Dolphins fans. As critical as we are of our team we still make lemonade out of lemons at the end of every draft and the beginning of every season. Unfortunately we always end up with lemons. (At least lately)
You need your "Marino". That's one of the points. Where has that philosophy got us. A series of 8-8, 7-9 seasons. Apparently here in Miami it is Rocket Science and we are fresh out of scientists
Our expectations as fans is largely based on the product on the field and past performance. Over the past several years, the Dolphins have stunk and the product has been lackluster. Just making the playoffs looks better in comparison to what fans have experienced these past few years, and yes you can say some of us have been beaten into submission by the constant mediocrity. An attitude adjustment will only happen when the right pieces fall into place and we actually have a product that we can believe in and performs well. We need the right pieces to fall into place, and that starts with good top level decision-making. The current FO and owner don't give me much hope on that front though.
The idea that there was a heyday of Dolphins fans is pretty much a self-delusion. It's not Don Shula. It's not Dan Marino, and it's not any sort of honest to goodness real streak of suffering or poor performance. When a team in this town is a top performer, they will be extremely popular. When they are not, attendance, etc. falls off. It's been the same forever. You can find Don Shula/Dan Marino years with a team at the top of its conference with under 60,000 people showing up to Joe Robbie. The idea that Dolphins fans are somehow long suffering or the franchise is particularly troubled is pretty much just a huge, pointless circle jerk. The team hasn't really had any notable success, but it's not some sort of historical futility. Neither the team nor the fan base were imbued with magical properties that make they particularly noteworthy. Those properties were not somehow lost over the years.
For those of you who insist on inventing something that never was actually the case, look at this for example: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1992_Miami_Dolphins_season Don Shula is the head coach, Dan Marino is the quarterback. The Dolphins are 5-0. They draw 58,000 people at home at Joe Robbie Stadium vs. a division rival.
****, how about this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1983_Miami_Dolphins_season Dan Marino is an incredibly promising rookie starter on a team that was in the Super Bowl the year before. He goes 9-2 as a starter, and closes the season with a 5-game win streak. Attendance in the last four home games are 54,482, 74,506, 56,725, and 59,975. Capacity during this time period was 74,993.
What the Dolphins have "accomplished" since 2001 certainly isn't historical. But it is something only 4-5 other teams have also "achieved". That is not having a playoff win in that period. And we're one of 5 or 6 current franchises to not reach a super bowl since 1984/85. Not historical. But definitely long suffering no matter how you slice it Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk
To answer the OP. 0 playoff wins in 13 years and only one appearance in that same timespan will drain the high expectations right out of ya. Especially when 37% of the league makes the playoffs every year Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk
Aaaahhhhh those were the days. Actually won a $20 bet from my High school football coach on the Bears game. One of the greatest dismantling of a defense by any Qb ever. The determination of Dan Marino was amazing. When you say you live close to Buffalo. are you in Tonawanda or Cheektowaga ?
No, it's not. It's sort of an interesting statistic, but it isn't an actual sign of the "suffering" element. A perpetually mediocre team is not a crime against the fan base of the team. Sitting at what is essentially average doesn't represent a terrible outcome. This isn't advocacy for any sort of status quo, or acceptance for the current results, but people turn it into a big dramatic **** fit which doesn't make any sense or have even the slightest bit of value. Posting these kind of threads on the internet about how you're fed up with mediocrity doesn't make you a dynamic agent of change, or some sort of upstanding go-getter. It mostly makes you irritating.
So you don't like the complaining. That's fine. Its a message board though. Complaining about the complaining of a team failing to win a playoff game in 13 years makes even less sense. Being the arizona cardinals who mix in a Superbowl appearance and good season in between 4-12 seasons may be more desirable than the perpetual 7-9s Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk
The Franchise is just that : LONG SUFFERING You are aware that it has been 42 years since we won a superbowl? Pretty long suffering to me. As far as the Dolfan's go you must have never been to the orange bowl because the fans were off the hook It absolutely was Dan Marino and Don Shula. As far as being noteworthy I must disagree. This Franchise once touted itself as the winningist Franchise in "Sports History" Seems pretty significant decline to me
There has been no "Mtn Top" moments in what..30 yrs? The end to last season summed it up rather well..1 win..1..against losing teams and we secure a playoff birth, what did we witness instead? Arguably our two worst performances of the season..And it has been like that for a very long time. I do think Tannehill will be our starting Qb for a long time, and a good one,otherwise we have not had a good OL for a couple of seasons in forever, dropped passes, missed FG's.
