I think I can get on board with it if they moved up for Matthews and then were able to nab Preston Brown and Bruce Ellington (I know that'll sting you personally Todd). But I could see a scenario play out as such: 1. Jake Matthews - T - Texas A&M 2. - Traded - 3. Preston Brown - ILB - Louisville 4. Bruce Ellington - WR - South Carolina You've still got some chances for guys like Spencer Long, Brandon Thomas, Terrance West, Ed Stinson, Ryan Carrethers, etc. in rounds 5-7.
That would be an interesting move. I always think about trading the round 1 pick, not later round trades.
Yeah I'd kick my own self in the dick if Miami did that. Too much potential talent at 50 for me to package it with a mid 1st for a non core position. I just don't see how there's more value to Matthews alone than there is to a potential duo of say Morgan Moses & Seferian Jenkins or even JaWuan James & Troy Niklas to name a few. What's the reason for using the extra pick to get Matthews when there are other viable RT prospects available? Is it because 19 is "too high" for James or Moses? Screw that. Personally I'd rather overdraft James or Moses and save the 2nd rounder for an additional starter than be left holding our nuts until the 3rd round of a talented draft.
I'd rather hope for a trade back of the 1st and take Moses, James, or Kouandjio, and then use that added pick to move up our 2nd for Seferian Jenkins or any 1st round talent that slips into the 2nd round.
Can you move Morgan Moses or Ja'Wuan James over to left tackle as seamlessly as Jake Matthews once Branden Albert can't cut the mustard? That'd be my question strictly as it relates to the tackles. I'm not a big fan of ASJ or Niklas, especially since I'd rather upgrade the defense first before adding another big TE that Miami hasn't really seemed to have a use for since Joe Philbin arrived.
I think trading back from #19 would be harder than trading a 4th to move up in the 2nd, but if they can get a trade partner, then yeah trading down in the first could be a great move.
Even if he were destined to have a career like Jordan Gross playing right tackle for a few years then moving to left when Albert isn't worth it anymore? I think the value is right on the money.
That's the only way it makes sense to me. A guy who plays RT for now, can cover Albert when he's hurt and take over for Albert in 2 years when he's done w/ the league.
I think Morgan Moses can be that guy. Is he worth the #19? Probably not. I don't think any of the tier 2 tackles will be there in round 2 so we would have to trade up unless we reach for a guy like Mewhort.
What do you mean reach for Mewhort? How good do you think he will be in the NFL? Agreed, we need to move up in the 2nd or back in the 1st if we want to take a tier two guy at a reasonable price. I'd rather give up a later pick to move up in the 2nd.
I meant in round 2 with all the tier 2 tackles off the board by the time it gets to our pick in round 2 would we reach for Mewhort. I think Mewhort is strictly a RT but probably better suited to play guard.
The value to take a right tackle that high is definitely there. Fans will always be reluctant to admit it though. The right tackle position has become just as important as the left tackle position, and in particular on this team where the head coach likely wants two "left tackles" as his tackles in the sense that both tackles better be able to pass protect against strong rushers.
Matthews could be a free agent by the time he needs to move to LT, and we've seen what it's like recently with expensive FA tackles and how it's far from a guarantee they remain with their original team [Albert, Monroe, Long, plus Peters' situation in Buffalo]. I'd rather cross that bridge when we get there or shortly prior to it rather than during the same year we ink Branden Albert to 5 yr/46M with 25M guaranteed. If we go with Matthews, that likely means spending 3 valuable draft picks on tackles over the next few years, which includes addressing the hole at RT when Matthews moves. I don't see how that represents value when it's essentially using maximum resources to fill needs. I'm in no rush to go that route. I mean, it's not like Matthews is the last decent LT the league will see. That car will likely be on the lot next year and the year after for teams desperate enough to package a 1st & 2nd to buy it. For me, value would be using a 2nd on JaWuan James and then landing the LT of the future via a promising mid to late pick who develops into a viable starter. If it can work out that way, it saves us a draft pick and preserves one or two 1st rounders to be used elsewhere. If it doesn't work out then we take a trip to the car lot with our wallet opened just as we'd be doing with Matthews.
No, just one. How about JaWuan James in round 2 and then Billy Turner in round 3 who can initially address the need at guard while also serving as Branden Albert's future heir? If left tackle ends up not being in the cards for Turner, then we still have a guard and a right tackle in place, and can then open up the draft checkbook for a left tackle when the time comes to find Albert's replacement.
I thought the same at first - I think he's referring to using both to trade up and get a guy like Matthews in Round 1.
Because you will get neither player that late. James will go round one, and Turner may not even make it to Miami's pick in the 2nd round.
In all likelihood, if Miami passes on Moses or James to play right tackle in the first round, then we are probably looking at Michael Schofield in the 3rd round or making a play for an unreliable character risk in Seantrel Henderson earlier than we should. Schofield is probably the last right tackle prospect that could come in and compete for a starting spot as a rookie, but he's also a guy that will probably be just a guy at the position. In fact, I think he would be better at guard. Henderson has the talent to be mentioned with the top guys, but his laziness and drug habits are a major issue.
I don't see much drop off if any between Moses or Kouandjio, or even James, to Henderson, Lucas, Schofield who are 5th rounders and lower. The main question is who else other than OL is there in 2nd and 3rd that must be taken. Guards who are graded high look better than tackles, like Turner, Gabe, but similarly Groy, Brandon Thomas, and Bodine who are graded much lower are simliarly effective. So again, main question imo is which playmakers are there who must be taken so that 2nd and 3rd round are better utilized.
Well, I don't base where I think the players should go on where the media is telling me they should go. I look at their film and come up with my own idea. I see a definitive drop off from Moses/James to the likes of Schofield, Fleming, Leno, etc. Henderson is such a character risk that you can't put yourself in a position where you are counting on him to start at right tackle as a rookie.
Funny how this is such a deep draft but we r getting worried about a 7th or 8th tackle not being there in the 2nd
Maybe he's been talked about much earlier in this thread, but...thoughts on Donte Moncrief? This video makes him look like a 1st or 2nd rounder, imo. [video=youtube;qNmiRu3Kcf0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qNmiRu3Kcf0[/video] The hands are a question, I would guess. Chooses to catch with his body too much. But in some other games he shows some soft hands when he has to pluck it. Great acceleration at a thick 6-2, tough to press, sudden speed off the line and through his cuts. Seems like a perfect fit for a vertical passing attack. Also seems like, in a deep WR class, his name is the one getting lost in the talk of that second/third tier. This game vs LSU in 2012 really stands out. I think he should definitely be a target at 50, at the least, and we did bring him in for a visit. Curious to hear what other people think.
Hindsite is 20/20, but the opportunity cost of the Dion Jordan trade up was Star Loutulelei and Menelik Watson. Given that either Soliai or Starks was a given to bolt in FA and we needed an OT badly, that would have been beautiful.
While I agree that Matthews will no longer be "cheap" after four years, I don't agree about it being difficult to keep a player like that in the fold. First off if Ryan Tannehill is our guy going forward then they will have a bond from all the time together at TAMU as well as Miami. Second I mean just look at the examples you gave. The Jaguars CUT Eugene Monroe. He didn't escape via free agency. He did become a free agent this off season and re-signed with Baltimore on a sweetheart deal. The reason Branden Albert isn't back with KC is they didn't want him and that is because they drafted Eric Fisher. That was an active choice, much like when the Jags CUT Monroe. You mention Jason Peters but he also re-signed with his team in Philadelphia. The Bills weren't interested in bringing him back. Really the best example you brought up was Jake Long and...Jeff Ireland. Two words. All that needs to be said. We even got verification that he blamed Ireland for his not coming back from the whole Incognito scandal. This doesn't seem like good logic because if Jake Matthews is moving it's because Branden Albert is no longer viable and if Branden Albert is no longer viable then we're spending an additional draft pick on the position because of Branden Albert not because of Jake Matthews moving. And it's easier to find a right tackle than it is a left tackle so during all those years where we're waiting for Albert to lose it, we could be sifting through 6th rounders, 7th rounders and UDFAs and seeing if we can't find and train up the next Demar Dotson. It is much preferable to go through that exercise when the position is not an IMMEDIATE need because when it's an immediate need then it doesn't matter whether the guy you try is a 1st rounder of a 7th rounder, if he doesn't work out there's a big cost. JaWuan James won't be there in the 2nd round. I'm 98% certain.
The Jags traded Monroe, and they did so to get something for him BEFORE they lost him to FA b/c of the heavy money involved. I can't think of a worse way to spend a high draft pick than using it on a left tackle b/c your previous FIRST ROUND left tackle was simply too expensive to keep. KC used a #1 overall pick to replace a 1st round left tackle who didn't need replacing if money weren't an issue. The Jags used the #2 overall pick to replace a #8 overall pick left tackle who didn't need replacing if money weren't an issue. Then there's Miami's #1 pick left tackle who left for another team despite efforts to re-sign him. The Bills DID IN FACT want to bring Peters back but they wouldn't/couldn't meet his contract demands so they traded their franchise LT for a #28 pick, which more than likely won't net a left tackle of same value in that draft slot. Again, there's no guarantee of anything down the line with Matthews at left tackle, so we can't look at it as Miami spending a 1st & 2nd on a future left tackle. We can only look at it from the present tense which is Miami would be spending two high draft picks to address right tackle. IMO, trying to cross the left tackle bridge 4 or 5 years in advance using high draft picks is heavily premature and a mismanagement of resources. In your scenario of drafting Matthews and eventually moving him to left tackle, that means we're still gonna need a right tackle, so no matter what we're gonna need a right tackle of the future. Since that's the case, we might as well draft James in round 2 [even if it's a short trade up] and be done with the position. Then there's still the rest of this draft, next year's draft, and year after that's draft to find a left tackle of the future and perhaps do so WITHOUT it requiring a 1st & 2nd rounder. Then, like I said before, if drastic measures are called for a few years from now, we can always package a 1st & 2nd together for a top left tackle just as you're suggesting now.
Albert is making $25 million in guaranteed. That all but guarantees Miami feels he's locked in at left tackle for at least the next 3 years. I could say the same about Jason Peters who was a UDFA. To me it seems the value we'd be getting if Miami found a mid to late round gem RT would be nullified by the lofty 1st & 2nd rounders spent to hopefully get our LT 4 years in advance. I'd be willing to bet here's still there at 40 with all the talent on the board and varied team needs drafting ahead of us making it unnecessary to bypass talent at positions of need in order to slightly reach for a right tackle. The same thing happened last year with Menelik Watson, and the year before that with Glenn & Martin.
And? In three years we're looking at spending a draft pick to replace him. Either way Jake Matthews moving does not represent the additional reason to spend a draft pick. Albert's age does. No, you really couldn't. The median draft position of the highest performing left tackles is far higher than median draft position of right tackles, and the correlation between draft position and performance is also much higher for left tackles than right tackles. If you want to acquire a left tackle you're generally going to have to spend a high pick on one. You seem to be pretending Matthews would present no value until he moved to left tackle. This is false. That's nice if he's still around at 40 but the Dolphins pick at 50 so that wouldn't help unless they spent an extra pick to move up. And if you're willing to bet JaWuan James is available at 50 then name the stakes and I'll take your bet.
I really like Moncrief. He's one of my favorite WRs. I like him more than Marqise Lee or Martavis Bryant
A mid 1st rounder on a playmaking receiver is better than a mid 1st & 2nd rounder on a right tackle......... all. day. long.
No there wouldn't. Not only will it not happen, but it's a terrible idea. First off, Albert wasn't the greatest run blocker as it is as a left tackle, so there's no way Hickey and Company would want to magnify that by moving him to the right side. Secondly, Albert has never played right tackle, whereas Matthews is well versed there.
I'm not saying he doesn't present value as a right tackle. I'm just saying for me the opportunity cost is too high considering we can get an impact player in the middle of the 1st round and then trade up our 2nd for a quality starter in JaWuan James who also happens to be one of the best players in the draft at his position. Over the past 6 or 7 years, the 1st round has seen just one more receiver drafted than the 2nd round, yet the 1st round receiving yardage and TD production has been twice that of the 2nd round. That's a huge drop off. Meanwhile some great right tackles have been picked up in the 2nd round. So for me, I want the 1st round WR and the 2nd round RT rather than the 1st round RT and the 3rd or 4th round WR. I'd be willing to bet he's there between 40-45. "I lost a bet to CK and now I've gotta wear this stupid signature". Something like that, along with a retarded picture. ???
I seriously question the way Play the Draft is raising and lowering these draft prospects' value. One of my holdings' stock among writers and such could not possibly be higher unless his name were Jadaveon Clowney, yet he's trading at an FRX far below where he's being talked about and he's been a losing investment since I bought him. I'm guessing what's really going to turn these rankings on their head will be draft weekend itself.
Lache Seastrunk continues to be criminally underrated. He and Tre Mason are the most special backs in the draft by a good bit.
He doesn't dance in the backfield and that's very important. The only time I ever see him dance behind the line of scrimmage is when he's in the clear running out to the perimeter. Otherwise he's in a hurry to get beyond the line, which is key. Other guys like Bishop Sankey dance behind the line all the time and thus they're caught for negative and 0 yard gains a lot.
Another thing that bothers me about him is that he stops a lot when running. (This goes back to age old discussion of scat back versus downhill runner.) The good news is that his combine shows that he is the most explosive RB in the class, so the stopping and bursting while changing direction may actually work in the NFL because he has the burst.
