That works both ways. I see CK's point. Getting Jordan for the #3 overall, or for a combination of #12 and #42, does not equal getting him for peanuts, unless you think he is worth much more than that.
Your a GM, what's better, the third overall or the 12 pick?.. No question you have the advantage. Now, your gonna lose your 2nd but your going to move up 9 spots in the first, does that not lessen the value lost of the 2nd rounder?
Barr seems to be a love/hate guy. He's a lot like Barkevious Mingo last year...they're very similar tweeners, imo, though Barr seems a safer pick because he's bigger. You wonder what they can do besides the speed rush, lack of a dangerous counter move at this point. Barr switching positions makes things tough. His instincts aren't good, but I could see them improving the more defense he plays. Obviously he's a phenomenal athlete, sudden, explosive, long, fluid, all that. The instincts would be the big question for me, especially on our defense where that trait is really really lacking. I'd still put him top 12. He'd be a great fit for the Jets, wouldn't be surprised to see them move up a bit for him.
Jets drafting defense again in the first round when receiving unit is so devoid of talent is the Jetsiest thing they could do.
I think they're gonna go defense, lol. Either LB or corner. Barr would make that front 7 mean as hell.
Obviously I'm not the only one who disagrees with your inability to see both sides at least..saying " never mind" tells me that you only see your side.. It's ok, wrong or right, it's a great great deal on any value chart..
3rd pick got $20.5 mil over 4 years 12th and 42nd pick got combined $15.1 mil over 4 years Not peanuts.
I'm saying never mind because you're stuck on a completely insignificant and entirely stupid and semantical point that essentially breaks down to "six of one or half dozen of the other". You're not getting it. And for that reason I'm off the topic. Regardless the Dolphins paid quite a bit for Dion Jordan. He did not come here for "peanuts".
Were on different planters Limbo when it comes to Barr, I see a great all around football player, a great athlete who has instincts for the game on 3 levels, natural instinctive pass rusher, does things getting after the Qb that are not in the pass rushing handbook, can play the run, and has the athleticism to drop and cover..his movement skills are top notch in all directions, and his instincts for the game are some of the best in the draft next to Aaron Donald and Kyle fuller..
Neither paying a 3 for Jordan, or a 12 and 42, however you want to look at it, equates to getting him for peanuts. Had we stayed put, we could have drafted Sheldon Richardson and Kiko Alonso. That's not paying peanuts for Jordan.
It's not stupid, this is the draft, and imo to be able to move up into the top 3 when your record didn't earn that slot, for what the compensation was in my world peanuts, and if Dion Jordan becomes what I think he could become then it's very relevant. Now in hindsight, if I stayed with our first two picks I would of hit two home runs, but that's not the point, I'm looking at it from a transaction standpoint. Telling me I'm not getting it is telling me that you think the way I'm equating the value is incorrect..I'm not the only one who disagrees with your logic..
once again, this is not a discussion of players, this is a numbers situation relative to draft points.
That seems to pertain pretty much across the board when it comes to GMs. Someone on CBS Sports draft show said listening to these GMs this time of year was like a Seinfeld episode. All about nothing.
I see both points as well. A very high 1st and a semi high 2nd for any player is decent amount. For comparison, it cost Seattle the #23 pick, #96, and a 7th for Percy Harvin On the other hand, we didn't "do anything" to acquire the #12. There wasn't some sort of investment made to obtain it. It was ours regardless, and for all intents and purposes Miami HAD to use that pick on a college player, unlike Seattle's case where they didn't have to spend those resources on Harvin. Giving up #42 in addition is costly, but that cost also came at good value, especially when factoring in the new salary rules and stuff that make a #3 pick a significantly more attractive than years past.
I think this way of looking at it would be more valid if the #12 pick were a compensatory selection and therefore not negotiable. However the reality is the Dolphins could have done anything they wanted with that #12 overall pick and therefore it was an asset that has a value. They spent that asset along with the #42 pick asset on Dion Jordan. That's not peanuts. At #12 overall they could have had Star Lotulelei or D.J. Hayden, Sheldon Richardson or Tyler Eifert. At #42 overall they could have had Kawann Short, Kiko Alonso or Jamie Collins. Or they could have sold off the #12 and/or #42 overall picks for a bunch of lower picks, or for future picks or for veterans. They were valuable assets. There aren't two sides to this. They used two assets with discrete values on Dion Jordan.
I can see it now. Please input your gross annual income. "Well...I mean, I made $50,000 last year at my old job and I only made $48,000 at this new job. I mean so really I'm in the hole -$2,000. That's my income: -$2,000"
Aren't you married? Don't you realize the relative truth to that statement. I make $150,000 but net $12,000
Yes I'm married. Hence I said input your gross income and gave a completely spurious and invalid reason for inputting an income of -$2,000. There was no "relative truth" to ny statement.
If you main argument was the point value on the trade chart for the #3 compared to the #12 and #42 combined, then that is what you should have originally said.
I can't remember who said it but I heard some "expert" today talking about Beckham having return skills but that Cooks does not. Surprised me so I did some checking and sure enough, he has returned 12 punts and 8 kickoffs in his 3 year career. http://www.osubeavers.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=30800&ATCLID=207912423 That's discouraging to me since I had hoped Cooks could help out in the receiving game obviously, but also replace Thiggy who makes me grind my teeth. So why wasn't he used in the return game? Don't want to use an explosive 4.33 forty guy in your return game (stunned disbelief), or trying to save him for the offense? Beckham is a little bigger, and a little slower having run a 4.43, still fast. He's played returner over his career, but he just doesn't excite me as much. http://www.lsusports.net/ViewArticle.dbml?ATCLID=205087798 Probably moot because we're not going to take him, still I'm bummed.
MOVING ON FROM THIS INANE DEBATE... Draft Twitter and the cadre of team writers that aren't traditional media certainly have some different views of how this draft is going to go. The Miami Dolphins on MockOne traded their 2nd round pick to move up to #8 overall and take Jake Matthews. At pick #19 guys like Odell Beckham, Taylor Lewan, Jason Verrett, Hasean Clinton-Dix and Kyle Fuller were gone. Jimmie Ward was the guy that went #19 overall. Deone Buchanon went right behind him. C.J. Mosley went to the Packers at 21. Darqueze Dennard fell to 23 and Bradley Robey 25. XSF went off in the mid-20's. Zack Martin fell all the way to 26. Derek Carr went off at 24. Brandin Cooks, Allen Robinson, Kyle Van Noy, Marqise Lee, Dominique Easley and Calvin Pryor finished out the 1st round. Ryan Shazier was the 1st pick of the 2nd round...followed surprisingly by Pierre Desir and Cody Latimer. Rashede Hageman, Joel Bitonio, Morgan Moses, Kony Ealy, JaWuan James, Timmy Jernigan, Lamarcus Joyner and Cyrus Kouandjio have gone. Perhaps this gives us a preview of things to come? Basically every good tackle is off the board and we're still 4 picks away from what would've been Miami's 2nd round pick. The best player I have remaining on the board is Florida State FS Terrance Brooks. Then DT Stephon Tuitt of Notre Dame, DE James Gayle of Virginia Tech, RB Tre Mason of Auburn, OT Billy Turner of North Dakota State, RB Lache Seastrunk of Baylor, TE Troy Niklas of Notre Dame, DE Marcus Smith of Louisville, CB Phillip Gaines of Rice, OT Cornelius Lucas of Kansas State, DE Scott Crichton of Oregon State and then a run of guards including Trai Turner, Spencer Long and Gabe Jackson. Based on that I think when Miami's next pick comes around which will be the 3rd round after the trade, I could be looking at a choice of James Gayle, Lache Seastrunk, Marcus Smith, Phillip Gaines, Cornelius Lucas, Spencer Long or Gabe Jackson. Just trying to predict who will be off the board between now and then.
Oh man what would have happened if San Fran drafted someone else and you guys were staring at Mike Evans, Jake Mathews, and Aaron Donald???
I think I would be too. IMO the way the draft is looking to shape up, Dolphins would do better to select a playmaker @19, any of Ebron, Cooks or Beckham Jr., then giving up a 4th round pick to trade up in the 2nd and get a tackle. You can move up 8-10 picks in the 2nd with a 4th round pick, IMO, and players like Moses, Jawuan James, Kouandjio, and Bitonio should be available in that range. You can still keep your 3rd rd to pounce on a good value at TE, OG or RB.
