So the Heat get $147 mil over 10 years from Miami-Dade

/thread

 

I guess some people would rather ignore the fact that the mayor of Miami Dade County is denying that a deal has been reached with the Heat. When I read this post, I called a good friend of mine in Miami and he told me that the Miami Herald had an article in the paper this morning in which the mayor stated that he hasn't agreed to any new deal with the Heat organization.

My friend told me that there are talks to keep the Heat in Miami for an additional 10 years, beyond their lease which now keeps them in Miami for another 15 years. He believes that eventually a new lease between the Heat and the County, but right now there is no such agreement.

My friend pointed out that as the sole owner of the Heat arena, tax payers would make out a lot better having a team in the publicly owned stadium than having no team in the stadium in the future. Ross on the other hand owns the football stadium and therefore the taxpayers really have no vested interest in ensuring that the Dolphin stadium has a team or not. The reality is that as owner of the stadium and the grounds around the stadium, Ross would still owe taxes on the stadium and the land, even if he moved the team to a new location.

Since I not longer live in South Florida, I have no vested interest in whether the Dolphins remain in Miami or not, but I do hope that Ross and the county will eventually come to a resolution on the stadium,which will benefit all the people in South Florida, especially the fans of the Dolphins. If they can't though, I would love to see them move the team to Hawaii. That way I can once again attend their games and the name Dolphins would certainly be appropriate for a team playing in these Islands. In fact I think we probably have more Dolphins swimming in our waters than swim in the waters around South Florida.

I know that moving the team to Hawaii will never happen, but I can always dream. After living in South Florida for over 50 years, the only thing I miss, other than our friends, is the realization that I will not be sitting in the stands once the football season begins for the Dolphins and the Hurricanes.

 

Why in the world would Miami own the AAA?

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Perhaps because the taxpayers paid for the construction of the arena.

 

So why would they want to own it? Its just a tax liability.

 

I understand your concern the you state, the Heat already has a long term agreement with the County. As far as your statement that the AAA is BRAND NEW. The arena was built in 1999, so it certainly can't be considered a brand new building. If an arena that is 15 years old is considered brand new. I guess by your criteria, Sun Life Stadium which was build 12 years before before the AAA Arena is still a relatively new and updated stadium.

 

THESE ARE BAD TIMES FOR TAX PAYERS so Mr Ross is basically saying i will give millions of dollars to his university but he wants to tax payers to pay for the stadium up keep.

Mr Ross should just shut up or sell the team . in a time where taxpayers spend more money for luxuries then education or highways , prisons and stuff it doesn't make sense to me to ask the public to fund these kinds of projects.

if anything needs to be done it is do away with the new logos and uniforms and all that jazz put more effort on getting a new stadium instead of spending nearly that much for minor upgrades.

 

I don't know if the taxpayers want to own it or not. All I do know is that they do own it at this time because they are the people paying the taxes to pay off the building. I no longer live in South Florida so I wasn't aware that the Heat were willing to take over ownership of the arena. If that is the case, the city and county should just let them have it and the Heat ownership can pay the taxes for the building as well as the remainder of the debt on the building. I just don't see the Heat ownership having any desire to own the arena outright.

 

I don't disagree that it may be poor timing. I just think that perhaps the politicians are trying to ensure that the Heat stick around for another 25 years and play in a building which the taxpayers are on the hook for many more years to come.

I also understand that Ross is probably upset with the possibility the Heat may get taxpayers money, while these same politicians haven't worked with him on his desire to upgrade his PRIVATELY owned stadium. I think the fact one is privately owned and the other one is owned by the taxpayers probably has everything to do with these politicians being more willing to get an agreement with the Heat and not being as open to Ross.

As I stated earlier, I would love to see Ross and the County come to an agreement which would benefit the team and the taxpayers of Miami Dade County, but I think the fact the stadium is privately owned and the County probably doesn't want to take over ownership of the stadium is working against Ross.

I used to think that there was no way the Dolphins would relocate from South Florida, but because of the stalemate Ross is having with the county over financing of the stadium. It would not surprise me in the least if the Dolphins don't end up moving to another location, if they get approval from the politicians in another area to build them a new stadium. I have said all along that I just don't see the taxpayers of Miami Dade county ever approving the dollars to build a new stadium or even to pay for major renovations to the existing stadium.

Unfortunately there just aren't enough real Dolphin fans in Miami Dade county to get voter approval for a new stadium or for the cost of renovations.

 

The taxpayers owning the stadium is not good for them. It just means they aren't collecting property taxes. The stadium itself has no real intrinsic value to the taxpayer. Its a depreciating asset they can't do anything with.

Its essentially the same as me buying a yacht, and then putting it in your name while you give me a free lease. You are stuck with the property tax bill, while I use the yacht until it is worth $0.

 

That's why I said "per game", or whatever way you'd like to put them on more even ground. There's no way in hell they're equal, not when I've seen several games in the last couple years where you have more opposing fans pulling up in buses than the Heat can put in their area.

They had one bad year shortly after a championship and a streak of successful years, and it was book-ended by more successful years.

I'm not sure how anyone familiar with this town and its sports franchises can disillusion themselves into thinking that it isn't a bandwagon town, but then again, you see it with Marlins fans, UM Football fans, etc. and so on. People will show up when the team is hot or there is a spectacle and be gone just as quickly when they aren't.

 

Again...simple math and logic.

There is NOTHING around Sun Life. Just a Walmart, a Gas Station and Calder Race Course. The AAA is surrounded by shops, restaurants, bars, and Nightclubs.

The Dolphins draw at best 70k people for 10 dates. 10 dates of which NOBODY patronizes any of the surrounding businesses (of which there are few).

The Heat draw 20k for around 55 to 60 dates a year (not counting all of the concerts) 55 to 60 dates of which EVERYBODY patronizes the surrounding businesses because they have no choice.

it is not even close. More dates is better than less dates. Location, Location, Location.


As for the second comment..again...Pat Riley arrived and this Franchise has had a better run than the New York and Boston Franchise as far as attendance, interest, even TV ratings. 17 Years is not a small sample size.

The Dolphins themselves proved it before. The Shula years, had that stadium packed. You build an organization, this town supports it. There is money in this town ready to be spent on entertainment.

 

That's really not at all close to true. The surrounding restaurants and businesses are busy before Dolphins games. You ever go to the Publix on Pines and University before a 1pm game to try and get a sub, or the fast food places in the surrounding area? Literally every game I've gone to I've patronized some sort of establishment in the area.

Likewise, I dated a girl who lived just off of Biscayne between the 195 and 395, and outside of the traffic it isn't really that noticeable a difference in terms of stuff in the area. The stuff literally across the street can be crazy immediately before or after, but it isn't something that is evident in the surrounding area. You don't see a flood of people to Wynwood or Midtown or anything like that.

There's evidence of fans abandoning teams during poor or even mediocre performance in basically every single franchise in this town. The Dolphins during the Shula years just as well, you can look up game attendance that looks a lot like it does now.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1992_Miami_Dolphins_season

Look at the home attendance during that early-season run. A 6-0 team at home against a division rival pulling 57,000 people at Joe Robbie.

 

Well, we just disagree on the first point, and have had different experiences. BTW, been to a Heat game lately, been to that area?

As for the second point, good find. That honestly surprised me. I got season tickets the very next season after that. Maybe the Heat with their 20k seats have a good base of inventory to force demand. But their 17 year run can't be denied.