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Ross warns new owner will move team without renovations

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Serpico Jones, Mar 12, 2014.

  1. Boik14

    Boik14 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Teams will be making subtle threats to move as long as there is no team in the LA market. Even though the NFL flopped with Oakland the Rams everyone knows its the 2nd biggest TV market and they wont hesitate to use it as leverage. Its a bargaining chip at this point by NFL teams. The Vikings just did it to the state of Minnesota. A few years before it was the Jets making the threat. Ross is hinting at it here as well and why not? The NFL hasnt relocated a team there for two reasons...one we know their fanbase hasnt supported the 2 teams they have there (mostly because theyre all Raiders, Chargers, or 49er fans) and because every NFL team is going to use it as a threat to get their new stadium. Its a great move for the league knowing they dont need the LA team to run a great league. Get used to it, its going to continue to happen around the league.

    Ross knows hes not moving the team out of state. Theres almost 50 years of history there and generational fans which are the most loyal kind. When youre born in to something you tend to die with it. How many fans that you know regularly attend sporting events change teams often? We all know a few "front runner types" but besides that? It would take the owner decades to rebuild that fan base. In South Florida he has the fan base.

    Conversely the state/county are going to play the game they always play. We all know government doesnt run efficiently and that private entities will generally run any kind of business project better then a state or county will. Ross paying for the stadium is the best thing that can happen for them. They save their initial investment, listed at 400M (and these project almost never stay on budget), and Ross will want to do it as cheaply as possible. The local businesses still profit, the county still collects taxes on everything but the property and long term they come out well ahead. Say the stadium lasts another 25 year * 4M (we'll say theres some inflation there) and the county saves 300M . Insane not to take the deal.
     
  2. ASOT

    ASOT New Member

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    Broward County is the better option.

    The real culprits in all of this were Huizenga & Mickey Arison. Those two couldn't come to a compromise about 15 years ago, when they needed to move out of the old Miami Arena, and each one wanted to be the "alpha dog" in the new stadium. So each ended up with a brand new stadium (Broward for the Panthers, AAA for the Heat) instead of building one facility for both to share like in a lot of other cities. What should have happened was which ever county didn't build the arena, should have built the stadium for the Marlins and their wouldn't be near as much rancor and debate about it right now.

    So if you are looking for blame, put it on those two men's egos.
     
  3. jinx

    jinx Well-Known Member

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    The Braves just did it.

    Atlanta helped pay for the Falcons new stadium and didn't have any interest in also replacing a new baseball park that was less than 20 years old, so the Braves went to a county that would.
     
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  4. jinx

    jinx Well-Known Member

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    The Ravens have a pretty good fan base.

    Ross never said he would move the team. He said the next owner *IF* the stadium issue isn't addressed. It's a threat but not an empty one. NFL owners don't give two craps about the history of football in South Florida. They would approve a move in a nanosecond if it made sense economically. Don't be naive.
     
  5. That does not make the threat less empty. Ross has no idea what a new owner would or would not do. If anything I think the county taking ownership of the stadium would make it easier for him to sell the team and make the possibility of the new owner moving the team more likely. If the stadium is attached to the deal it will be harder to sell the team and more unlikely that the team is moved. This is why I think Ross may be looking to cut his losses and get out of owning a team.

    What assurance does the county have that the team will not be moved even if they do give Ross what he is asking for. The whole thing smells fishy to me. He is willing to spend 400 million in renovations just to turn over ownership and he only turning it over to avoid a 1 million dollar tax bill at the end of the year? Does that make any sense to you? Ross is hiding something.
     
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  6. felly smarts

    felly smarts New Member

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    I hope they do move. I hope they move to a city like Omaha. Yeah. The Omaha Dolphins. It makes sense.
     
  7. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    When the county takes ownership of the stadium, the team will have to sign a lease.
     
  8. schmolioot

    schmolioot Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    And the refurbished stadium will fix this how, exactly?

    Miami still finished amongst the top occupancy rates for hotels. The biggest rpoblem for Miami is tourism spending overall is down due to the economy. Miami's unemployment rate is far more affected by the amount of money out-of-towners have to spend. Not just in the US, but worldwide. Miami is a major destination for European and Candian tourists, both of which are way down.

    Having a Super Bowl once every 5 years won't affect that at all. It's a temporary sieve, if anything.

    When people worldwide have more money to spend on vacations, tourism spending will go up and more people will have jobs in that industry. It's why the state should allow the casinos as well. Not only will they receive tax money but that is an investment that costs the state/city/county nothing but might actually induce more tourism.

    A new or refurbished stadium will not.
     
  9. schmolioot

    schmolioot Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    As much as I like the guy, the fault was actually Arison's.

    Broward thought they had a deal for both the Heat and Panthers to play in Sunrise and even had a press conference about it.

    It was only then, when the threat became real, did Dade County decide to do something and Micky backed out. Arison played Broward and John Rodstrom (the comissioner who spearheaded the Sunrise arena plan) like a fiddle.
     
  10. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    The people refurbishing it will have jobs? The people refurbishing it have to eat lunch somewhere nearby?

    Increasing demand = increased revenue. I'm not sure how this is even debatable.

    Also, the events that are associated with the SB are absolutely requiring more labor.
     
  11. Fineas

    Fineas Club Member Luxury Box

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    And it's a good thing. I don't think LeBron and Bosh come here to play in Sunrise. Saying he was bringing his talents to South Beach was a little silly considering the Heat don't play on South Beach, but it would have been ludicrous if the Heat played in sunrise. And I don't think "bringing my talents to Sawgrass Mills" has the same cache. :lol:
     
  12. schmolioot

    schmolioot Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Yes, there will be a few hundred construction jobs created that will last maybe two years.

    The refurbished stadium will not require any more concession workers, ushers, etc., then the stadium does now.

    How does the refurbished stadium increase tourism demand?

    And great, the Super Bowl creates temporary jobs once every 5 years. What a deal.

    But it's a perfect 1%er argument, I'll give you that
     
  13. Fineas

    Fineas Club Member Luxury Box

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    In fact, such a lease is really the only way to try to prevent the team from moving if the owner wants to move it. Not that leases can't be broken, but you can make it very costly to move. If a new owner were to buy the team and the stadium, there'd be nothing to prevent him from moving the team if another community somewhere offered a brand new free stadium and a sweetheart lease deal.
     
  14. schmolioot

    schmolioot Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Ha, maybe.
     
  15. jinx

    jinx Well-Known Member

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    So Ross is willing to pay $400M in renovations but is haggling over $4M annually in property taxes? For a man who is worth over $5 billion that seems a little strange to me.
     
  16. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    So unless the solution permanently solves all of the employment & tourism issues, it shouldn't be done?
     
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  17. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    It will be thousands, not hundreds. What do you think politicians point to when running for re-election? How many times do you hear "I voted to create these jobs"?

    It will create more if its hosting a SB.

    By hosting the largest entertainment event in the nation?

    In return for a few million dollars every year that they'll assuredly lose as soon as Palm Beach or Broward decides to pull the trigger.
     
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  18. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    He's not going to pay the $400MM himself. The NFL has programs to support enterprises such as this. He'll be spending some money, but not the entire thing.

    Also, you don't become worth $5BB by not haggling over the details.
     
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  19. jinx

    jinx Well-Known Member

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    He said he wants this stadium renovation to be his legacy. If that's really true, he should just bite the bullet. I mean...he's 73 years old. He's kind of running out of time to get this done and there's no chance Miami-Dade is gonna go for this deal.
     
  20. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    I don't see how Miami rejects this deal. Its basically free jobs for them.
     
  21. jinx

    jinx Well-Known Member

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    From the Miami New Times: Stephen Ross' New Sun Life Stadium Proposal Is Still a Rip-off

     
  22. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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  23. jinx

    jinx Well-Known Member

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    Oh really? And how many police officers and other public employees will get laid off because of the $4M hole in the budget?
     
  24. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Why would the renovations not bring in revenue for the area?
     
  25. jinx

    jinx Well-Known Member

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    They're not arguing. It's a verifiable fact. Sun Life is the city's top property tax payer. Why is it surprising they would rely on it?
     
  26. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    The simple fact of the matter, is that if the area doesn't benefit from the Dolphins and the stadium, then what Ross said about another owner moving the team CANNOT be a threat. A threat implies harm, if the Dolphins and the stadium provide no benefit to the area then there's no harm if they move.
     
  27. jinx

    jinx Well-Known Member

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    The costs would outweigh the revenue, as always happens with these things.
     
  28. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    If a Superbowl is awarded to the team every 5 years (not too mention any other major event they could bring in like soccer, concerts, etc.) I don't see how.
     
  29. jinx

    jinx Well-Known Member

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    I wouldn't have a problem with it. Someone mentioned moving the team to Palm Beach and I'm surprised we haven't heard more talk about it. The Niners did it by moving to Santa Clara and the Atlanta Braves are doing it by building a new park in the suburbs. Maybe it's been explored and is just not feasible.
     
  30. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    They're arguing that the deal is bad. It shouldn't take a MBA to figure this out.

    Even the harshest critics (see Schmoo's post earlier) say each SB brings in $70MM - $120MM for the host city. Over a 30 year span, you can assume Miami will get at least four SBs. Do the math and figure out if you think that is worth $120MM in lost tax revenue, which very likely will be lost at some point either way.

    Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk
     
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  31. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    The point being, either the area benefits or they don't.
     
  32. jinx

    jinx Well-Known Member

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    $4M in property taxes over a 30 year lease is $120M. Assuming there are six Super Bowls in that time (which seems unlikely given that the stadium will likely need more upgrades along the way), you really think the Super Bowls would make up that revenue windfall?
     
  33. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    Moving to PB is likely if Miami doesn't step up, but thats a little ways out. Ross doesn't want to move the team. A move to PB will have to wait until he sells the team.

    Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk
     
  34. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    No, thats just not true. You're treating this as if it is other deals, when it absolutely isnt. This is a very favorable deal for Miami. We are talking $2-4MM per year, as opposed to hundreds of millions upfront, which requires major debt servicing. Most cities end up with over a billion in costs after interest.

    Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk
     
  35. jinx

    jinx Well-Known Member

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    I guess I don't see how the area benefits much from the stadium outside of the property taxes. And the same could be said for Ross and the Dolphins. They don't gain much from it.
     
  36. jinx

    jinx Well-Known Member

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    There is plenty of data and studies available that show cities benefiting from stadiums is just not true. In most cases it's nothing more than a hoodwink to get public funding.
     
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  37. schmolioot

    schmolioot Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    No, but there are better ways to create those same types of job that aren't a give away to a billionaire and might actually do some good for the citizenry at large.

    For example, there are plenty of roads, bridges and other infrastructure that needs fixing. The city/county is far better off spending the money on those projects which not only creates job, but also a tangible benefit for the citizens and businesses in the area.

    The vast majority of Miami-Dade taxpayers will never attend a Dolphins/hurricanes game or a concert at Sun Life (of which there are maybe 2 per year). The stadium is a luxury. A nice thing to have but not an essential.

    Los Angeles is doing quite well without a Super Bowl caliber stadium or football team.
     
  38. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Then why do cities, LA included, want teams and stadiums?
     
  39. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    By all means share the studies that show cities get $0 additional revenue. The one Schmoo shared said $70MM+.

    Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk
     
  40. schmolioot

    schmolioot Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    It doesn't appear LA cares all that much since no stadium deal has even been close to fruition since the Rams and raiders left.

    And cities want teams to feel "big league", teams can create a sense of civic pride. There is really no tangible reason to have them, other than it's fun and people like sports.
     

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