Ross warns new owner will move team without renovations

There we go:

We are looking at ~$120MM in additional spending just from each Super Bowl.

 

How do you think a city like Miami creates jobs? Its skilled labor force???

 

Houston ended up with $5 million once the costs were factored in.

 

Houston is a much cheaper city. They also have much lower taxes. Miami should generate a lot more.

 

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/are-corporate-subsidies-worth-the-money/

They're probably not creating many jobs at all.

And even if they do the costs of "creating" those jobs are so high for the local government it ends up not being worth it.

 

The idea that Super Bowl attendees don't buy much that the local economy sells is ludicrous on its face. They buy hotel rooms, rental cars, taxi fares, meals, etc. The hotel rates are much higher for Super Bowl week than regular times, and as noted, the hotels are booked for an entire week. Generally speaking the meals SB attendees buy are pretty lavish - the people who are spending several thousand dollars to go to the SB aren't eating at McDonald's.

 

There are no jobs in Miami? 100% unemployment?

There is a strong argument that corporate subsidies are bad. But that argument entails cities like Miami becoming ghost towns. Miami is a tourism and entertainment town. That inherently requires large capital investments. If Miami isn't offering subsidies to attract these large capital investments, another city will.

 

This is a very simplistic view that does not take into account realistic economic factors, including how much it costs to actually produce a Super Bowl as well as how non-football tourist dollars are impacted. Essentially, the Super Bowl is not anywhere near as lucrative to a local business community as the NFL touts it to be.

 

Miami is a tourism town because of weather and its beach.

Neither requires much capital investment.

Until people decide they don't like nice weather and/or the beach, capitalists like yourself will build hotels, restaurants, surf shops, etc., to cater to those tourists.

Other than the city maintaining the roads, the boach, providing police and fire (things they would be obligated to do anyway), I'm not sure why the hotel owner should receive a tax break

 

There are literally dozens of nearby cities with nice weather and beaches that people could invest their capital in.

The hotel isn't entitled to a tax break any more than the city of Miami is entitled to the capital investment rather than a city like Palm Beach or Vero Beach or Delray Beach or Pompano Beach. These cities all compete for investments.

 

There is plenty of beach tourist money to go around.

All of them seem to be doing fine.

 

You're comparing apples with oranges.

However, if you fix up your house it's very likely that you will get a tax break.

 

While I won't argue that the SB has an impact on the locale economy. The reality in that in the past few Super Bowls held in South Florida, it was Broward County which benefited most from this economic boost. In fact, the SB headquarters for the NFL was located in Broward County and not in Miami Dade County during the last Super Bowl game played in South Florida. The vast majority of the fans who came into South Florida for those games stayed in hotels in Broward county and therefore probably ate most of their meals in Broward.

Yet the taxpayers in Broward county are not being asked to give up any of their tax dollars to help keep the Dolphins in South Florida. The reality is that the majority of the season ticket holders who would benefit from the a stadium renovation also live in Broward county and not in Miami Dade county.

While I favor Ross's latest proposal, because I always thought he should pay for all the renovations himself. As a former resident of Miami Dade county,as well as a long time season ticket holder, it always upset me that the tax payers of Miami Dade county were expected to financially support the Dolphins with tax money, while Broward residents paid nothing and yet benefited the most during games like the SB and the college bowl games.

If Ross does get this plan passed and turns the stadium over to the County once the renovations are complete, it will then be the complete responsibility of the County to maintain the stadium in coming years. This means that the taxpayers of Miami Dade County will have to spend tax dollars to provide maintenance for the stadium and to pay for any future renovations to the stadium which the NFL will surely demand in a few years.

Personally I think the ownership of the stadium should remain with Ross and both Miami Dade and Broward counties, should work together to provide him with some sort of tax benefit for making these changes to the stadium. The reality is that once Ross no longer has ownership of the stadium, it will be easier for him to sell the team and even easier for him or the next owner to relocate to another city if they want too. Right now, Ross owns the team and the stadium. Any new owner would have to pay for both these resources and would find it more difficult to move the team and still pay for the stadium and the taxes on the stadium.

While I don't think Ross wants to relocate the team. I can certainly envision the next owner, being saddled with a 25 plus years old, even with renovations, demanding that the County build a new stadium or risk the team leaving the South Florida area. I think the owner of the Dolphins also owning the stadium is the best way of ensuring the team remains in South Florida. I think the politicians in Miami Dade county would be making a serious mistake in accepting ownership of the stadium, renovations or not.

I am all for the renovations and even some tax breaks for Ross, but I would be totally against the taxpayers of Miami Dade county owning another sports stadium. At least here in Hawaii, we don't have to worry about stadium renovations. No major sports team would ever relocate here and that is just fine with us. The biggest issue here today was what time the trade winds would pick up so
we could have the best wind surfing experience.

Today that is suppose to be around 2:30 pm here in Maui and that will be in about 25 minutes. So Aloha to all my fellow Dolphins fans and I'll check back on the forum later tonight, after getting in a few hours on the surf.

 

I will share what I feel instead of what I think and What I feel is that Taxes should not be used for sports.

our Military ,our Veterans, our police and law enforcement and our highways need funding and we cant pull it off but we can fund sports stadiums . this is all wrong . my concern is the team not having on field success and low attendance.

if I am going to spend 1 million less for a renovation project then what it might cost for a new stadium then I would build a winning team then build a band new stadium .

 

No its a fair comparisson and secondly

My taxes increase when I improve the value of my property.

I think you guys are missing my point. I do not care if the city gives the stadium tax immunity. If its a good deal for them they should do it and if it is not they should refuse. I do not have enough information about the nuts and the bolts of the deal to be for or against it.

What bothers mke is how they attempt to hold people as emotional hostages to get their way. Its not what they want but how they are trying to get it.

Mayor wants tax revenue and he is threatening that essential gov services will go under funded if he does not get them.

Ross wants a tax shelter and is threatening the team will be moved if he does not get what he wants.

Its hyperbole by both sides and its also more than likely untrue. The gov is not going to allow those services go unfunded and the Dolphins are not going to move over being asked to pay propertty taxes on their stadium. Its a scare tactic. I really do not care which side get their way i'm disgusted by both of them.

 

You're right. The Dolphins need to leave Miami. Raze the stadium, be taxed as a parking lot and build DJ's hurricane stadium in Boca Raton at the former IBM complex right on I-95.

 

Good for Ross for ponying up the cash. He should pay for it. But this constant fear that the Dolphins will leave Miami is silly. There's too much history with the franchise. The NFL isn't letting the Dolphins move anywhere.

 

I am in favor of this latest deal.
However, I don't believe this adds as much to the S Florida economy as it does to some other areas.
Feb is already prime tourist season. For February 2012 & 2013, Miami finished at 84% and 86%hotel occupancy
That was near the top in the nation for both years.

 

I think it is pretty clear that a team's history has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not it can move. The Colts were in Baltimore since 1953 and had won 3 championships and lost 2 others there before they moved to Indy. The Browns were in Cleveland for 50 years (since 1946) and won 8 championships there (and lost another 6) before moving to Baltimore. The Raiders had a long and illustrious history in Oakland before moving to LA and then later moving back to Oakland. The NFL will not block a move because of franchise history.

 

Are you serious? Miami's unemployment rate is over 9%.

 

History has proven that this isn't really hyperbole. The NFL has been willing to move teams that don't get subsidies. It certainly is a scare tactic, but these aren't empty threats. The Dolphins moving to Palm Beach is a very realistic outcome to this situation.

 

Palm beach or anywhere else would have to approve a new stadium being built first. There is no indication that there is that kind of support. Things can change but as of now its unlikely. Its an empty threat by both sides.

If Ross sells the team then the issue can be revisited but there is'nt the urgency for it currently as he is implying.

 

Eff Ross.

 

Only you bro.

 

This outcome is not exactly threatening to the fan base.

 

Dude is also threatening Miami, and that's not cool. If he wants to sell the team, then sell them already and get the **** out. He's already hurt this franchise more than any other owner of the Dolphins, so I'm fed up with his baseless threats and promises. If he wasn't such an arrogant ******* to begin with, then Florida would have let the taxpayers upgrade Joe Robbie Stadium years ago.

 

Ross didn't threaten anyone.

He's simply stating a fact, if there was another owner they might move the team. There's history to back up what he's saying. Its a hard and ugly truth but no less a truth. Following your logic, telling someone they may get lung cancer if they don't quit smoking is a threat.

I think its downright absurd at this point to question his motives when he's willing to pay $400m without ever recouping it.

 

I like Ross, better owner than that jagoff who moved the Supersonics to OKC.

 

Who said it was, or needs to be? Ross' beef is with politicians in Dade. Moving to Palm Beach would be a neutral or net-positive move with the fan-base IMO.

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Except the concept of moving a team, as a threat, doesn't really count if you're just moving a few miles north while staying in the same metropolitan area. It's the equivalent of a New York team shifting boroughs.

 

I'm totally fine with that if it means a new stadium and a more supportive fanbase.

 

It was a threat. He did not say a new owner might move the team. He assured them that he would move the team. He is stating it as a fact not a possibility.

Ross and the Mayor are both acting like bullies. They are trying to manipulate public opinion with scare tactics.

As far as it being absurd to question his motives, why shouldnt people ask themselves why he is doing this. Does it really make good buisiness sense to invest 400 million into something for only a 1 million tax break per year. It would take him 400 years just to break even on that investment. It stands to reason that there is more for him to gain then is being talked about. Im not sure whats at stake for him but I have a hunch he is trying to position himself to be in a position to dump the team to the next sucker who comes along looking to buy themself a football team.

In any case he is not going to invest 400 million just because he loves the Dolphins.

 

The concept of moving a team isnt to threaten fans. Its to threaten politicians. The ones benefitting from a new stadium are different in PBC than Miami Dade.

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Its his duty as an NFL owner. He has 31 other business partners that are looking at him asking when the stadium will be fixed. This is what he signed up for.

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How many times has a team moved its stadium within the same state just to punish a county it was unable to strong arm into a tax breaks?

 

I'm not sure what your point is?

Are you saying the other owners are forcing him to invest 400 million of his own money into the stadium that he bought and they are forcing him to engage in scare tactics?

IMO as much as Ross has a responsibility to the owners he has a responsibility to the community and the fan base.

 

Teams have moved within same metro area before. Redskins off the top of my head, and I believe the 49ers as well. Teams will go wherever they get the subsidies.

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The other owners are expecting him to have a stadium befitting their expectations of a SB stadium, absolutely. Just like Ross expects the same of other owners. This is how a cartel operates.

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The redskins was the only team I could think of doing it too. Technically he did move the team into a new state but considering it was from DC to MD I wont hammer on you that i9ts not technically correct LOL.

My point is that when teams are moved the majority of the time it is to a new market. Another thing that is being left out the discussion that even if a city does heavily invest in a stadium it does not garuntee them that the team will stay. Look at what the browns did to cleavland.

 

SLS is more than adequate to host a SB. If the NFL disagrees than let them keep it up in NY or whatever other city meets their standards. Im sure buffalo would love to host one.