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Ted Wells Report on Incognito / Martin released

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Vinny Fins, Feb 14, 2014.

  1. Ronnie Bass

    Ronnie Bass Luxury Box Luxury Box

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    Adam Beasley ‏@AdamHBeasley · 6m
    Incognito's lawyer has sent out a statement, saying Wells' report is "replete with errors."

    Adam Beasley ‏@AdamHBeasley · 5m
    Schamel: "The facts do not support a conclusion that JM's mental health ... issues were related to the treatment by his teammates."

    Adam Beasley ‏@AdamHBeasley · 4m
    Schamel: "The truth ... is that Jonathan Martin was never bullied by Richie Incognito or any member of the Dolphins Offensive line."
     
  2. Deerless Dice

    Deerless Dice Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Turner was the also the person who got Martin to open up a bit after he skipped out OTAs. But due to the "Judas" rule Martin only told him about his mental health issues and not the underlying cause of harrasment from IPJ. Turner then went directly to Philbin which precipitated the Martin's Dad and Philbin conversation. For the report he convenient case of selective Amnesia, but Wells did commend for his actions here.
     
  3. Itsdahumidity

    Itsdahumidity X gonna take it from ya

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    perhaps, but that might be wishful thinking.
     
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  4. phinswolverinesrockets

    phinswolverinesrockets If he dies, he dies

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    this
     
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  5. Fame

    Fame Well-Known Member

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    I just can't shake the notion that Philbin is ultimately responsible for this becoming an ordeal. We hired/retained Philbin on the basis that he's a good guy who's going to right the ship by doing the right thing and having the right players. But ever since he's become the Dolphins head coach things have gotten worse instead of better. Instead of righting the ship he's steering into an ice berg.

    I don't expect every coach to be responsible for every single thing an assistant coach does, but it is impossible for me to fathom that he thought it was wise to put his head in the sand. Ultimately you are responsible for your staff, and you can't just turn a blind eye to everything and expect to be free of all responsibility. It is absolutely his responsibility to make sure he knows about things that are happening, so he can handle the situation if a coach does something wrong. He's just hiding behind being incompetent.

    If Philbin was really such a stand up guy he would have benched Incognito when Ireland refused to trade him and put the emphasis right back on those guys. But what does he do instead? Ignores it, acts like nothing happened, and keeps playing a guy he supposedly wanted to cut. Philbin is gutless. He's just playing a role for the cameras but I'm not buying it, because its easy to be a good guy when you just pretend everything is great, you ignore all the bad things, and you don't stand up for anything. It's much harder to be a good guy when you actually get involved, and do the right thing instead of burying your head in the sand. He's not a good guy, he's not a good coach...he's a punk.
     
  6. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Adam Beasley ‏@AdamHBeasley · 3m
    Philbin was made aware of Martin's depression, and had him get help.
     
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  7. Jimmy James

    Jimmy James Ron Swanson

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    Fame,

    All of that said, this is the narrative the NFL is embracing. I think firing Philbin now (or even before) could have actually exposed the team to more punishment because it might have run contrary to whatever the NFL wants to sell about this.
     
  8. Vertical Limit

    Vertical Limit Senior Member

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    Funny I mentioned before the Bucs game that serious consequences will come from this including our draft picks and I was called an idiot. Yep, how idiotic was that prediction? It can very well happen.

    The saving grace is the compliments Wells' had towards Philbin, that MAY save us from losing our draft picks. So maybe thank god we didn't fire the guy, because he may be the reason we keep the pick. We would look very guilty if both Ireland and Philbin were axed.
     
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  9. Jimmy James

    Jimmy James Ron Swanson

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    I just wrote out essentially the same point and posted it right above you. Great minds...
     
  10. Vinny Fins

    Vinny Fins Feisty Brooklyn dolfan ️‍

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    turner and o'neill have to ****ing go. Immediately.

    In as humiliating a fashion as possible. Throw their **** in the trash, in front of the media.

    And ****ing Pouncey is on my last nerve.

    And here's the reality:

    Jake Long was holding this **** show together. Ireland knew it and let him walk any way.
     
  11. TooGoodForDez

    TooGoodForDez Deion Sanders for GM

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    This is a left over from Parcells, Sparano, Ireland mess.
     
  12. phinswolverinesrockets

    phinswolverinesrockets If he dies, he dies

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    i've been in plenty locker rooms (college) as a player and coach, and sure they can be immature with pranks and ribbing. but, this dolphins' shyt is on an entirely different level. a lot of the shyt i'm reading about isnt ribbing, it's flat out racism and bullying. i dont know how there have not been any fights that we've heard of. most players i know would have kicked someone's azz by now over some of the stuff being said. this is ridiculous and is the result of lack of leadership on this entire f'n team. we should have cleaned house.
     
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  13. jim1

    jim1 New Member

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    The question is, did Jim Turner tell Philbin what was going on? If he did, Philbin should be praying about now, holding hands with Dawn Aponte in a church somewhere. But does Turner have any credibility left? Does anyone actually believe him when he says that he "can;t remember" if he put male blow up dolls in abused players gift bags?

    Btw, this is from Incognito's lawyer:

    Mark Schamel, Incognito’s attorney, released a statement Friday afternoon that said, “Mr. Wells' NFL report is replete with errors. The facts do not support a conclusion that Jonathan Martin's mental health, drug use or on-field performance issues were related to the treatment by his teammates.

    It is disappointing that Mr. Wells would have gotten it so wrong, but not surprising. The truth, as reported by the Dolphins players and as shown by the evidence, is that Jonathan Martin was never bullied by Richie Incognito or any member of the Dolphins offensive line. We are analyzing the entire report and will release a thorough analysis as soon as it is ready.”

    Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/2014/02/14/3935096/miami-dolphins-incognito-pouncey.html#storylink=cpy

    Nice digs at Jonathan Martin, huh? Also, I wonder what Nate Garner would have to say about the bullying, apparently after being subjected to it for 6 years. Did Schamel miss that part, or most of the reports for that matter? Downplaying the bullying is one thing and to be expected from a lawyer, but having read this quote- maybe Incognito should find himself another lawyer.
     
  14. Fame

    Fame Well-Known Member

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    You might be right, but in that case the same argument I made about Philbin being responsible would extend to Ross. If Ross retained Philbin just because the NFL wants to preserve its image or mitigate future HC problems that stem from the behavior of assistants then Ross is guilty of the same cowardice that Philbin is. At that point it becomes two men doing the wrong thing for the wrong reasons, as opposed to just one (Philbin).

    Obviously I am no billionaire, and certainly no owner of an NFL franchise, but I do own my own business and if anyone ever tried to tell me how to run my business (or franchise) by not doing the right thing so that THEY could save face I would laugh. But then again, Ross doesn't strike me as someone with particularly large stones.
     
  15. Killer B's

    Killer B's Junior Member

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    Patriots?
     
  16. Jimmy James

    Jimmy James Ron Swanson

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    None of the implicated players or coaches will be able to touch Philbin unless they have video proof of him being told.
     
  17. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    Yes I do. I think stuff like this happens everywhere.

    This isn't the army. This is a secretive place where everyone is playing a game for a lot of money, where macho behavior is rewarded. Where they are treated like cattle.
     
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  18. Ronnie Bass

    Ronnie Bass Luxury Box Luxury Box

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    And then replaced Long with a basketcase that had a ton of issues and problems, let alone the ones in the locker room.

    Ireland really mucked this up bigtime.
     
  19. Jimmy James

    Jimmy James Ron Swanson

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    If Martin doesn't sign with the Niners and Jim Harbaugh, I think a very natural fit could be with his brother John in Baltimore.
     
  20. phinswolverinesrockets

    phinswolverinesrockets If he dies, he dies

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    THIS does not happen everywhere. no chance. can you really imagine this happening on teams with strong leadership???
     
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  21. Fame

    Fame Well-Known Member

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    In my opinion, it shouldn't matter if Turner told Philbin anything. Philbin should have made it a point to get involved enough with the team that he would have found out without Turner admitting to all his shenanigans. There's a reason most businesses take precautions to curb the mistakes of their employees, such as using video cameras. Because nobody wants to hear "Sorry Mr. Smith, but our bank teller was able to steal all of your money because we assumed he was a good guy and we didn't think it was necessary to keep an eye on him or get involved in any way. Better luck next time."
     
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  22. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    Yes, pretty easily
     
  23. slickj101

    slickj101 Is Water

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    Absolutely.
     
  24. Jimmy James

    Jimmy James Ron Swanson

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    Particularly when the bank teller is known in the community as a scumbag and has recently assaulted a customer with a golf club.
     
  25. phinswolverinesrockets

    phinswolverinesrockets If he dies, he dies

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    you think all the racist joking and bullying is going on in a steelers locker room (under the rooneys house), in a bill belichick locker room where you could be cut over one fumble, in a peyton manning locker room where the only focus is winning, or in a 49ers locker room under harbaugh??? NO CHANCE. there might be ribbing and a little rookie hazing, but our locker room is wayyy beyond that.
     
  26. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    A bank manager can fire the teller, Philbin could not fire Incognito, only Ireland could. let's not forget, Philbin wanted Cogs gone after the golf course event.

    And yes, Philbin could bench Cogs too, but considering how bad the oline talent was it probably would have cost the team wins. Philbin has a responsibility to the team to field the best players he can. If ireland won't cut and replace Cogs, Philbin cannot bench Cogs without calling attention to the issue.
     
  27. vt_dolfan

    vt_dolfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    You talk like you know this to the gospel. How can you even remotely come close to saying NO CHANCE. Rofl, what you think teams that have won a championship, arent capable of crewd and vulgar behavior in the locker room?
     
  28. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Yes.
     
  29. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    How would they know?
     
  30. Jimmy James

    Jimmy James Ron Swanson

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    We get that and are saying he should have called attention to the issue.
     
  31. jim1

    jim1 New Member

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    I wrote that before I came across the part where Martin's Dad specifically told Philbin before the season that there was a bullying problem going on. I was thinking more of the Shula model of supervision- the coaches check on the players, Shula checks on the coaches- and does it well. I don't like Philbin much anyway, but it's hard to see how he gets absoved of any wrondoing as per this situation given the direct input given to him before the season from Martin's father. Looks like Philbin turned a blind eye, I wonder how and if he'll get punished for it. Looking at it now, Philbin's righteous indignation about the whole issue sounds pretty hollow.
     
  32. Larry Little

    Larry Little Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Yes I did read the report. I'm tired of saying this. If you took the comedy bits of some of my favorite comedians (George Carlin, Bill Hicks, Patton Oswalt, Doug Stanhope, etc), verbatim, and had a lawyer report on them, taking everything they say out of context, they would seem like horrible, cruel, and evil people. They aren't any of that. THEY. ARE. JOKES.

    Insensitive? Maybe. If you think so, then say something to Incognito, Pouncey, Turner... their boss... his boss... until you get the problem solved. There is no way this should have become a league-wide witch hunt with people screaming for a pound of flesh. This has now been blown severely out of proportion, and it isn't the fault of anyone other than Martin, who handled this about as poorly as an emotionally and mentally unstable person could. Outside of showing up at work with an AR-15.


    I agree that Martin isn't cut out for the NFL. However, I disagree that Turner's inappropriate actions could be classified as 'extraordinarily' inappropriate without witnessing the joke. I don't care what a lawyer... who has his own motives... 'reports' about it.
     
  33. vt_dolfan

    vt_dolfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    Anyone want to guess what the locker room was like....during the Jimmy Johnson championship years with the Cowboys?
     
  34. Rocky Raccoon

    Rocky Raccoon Greasepaint Ghost Staff Member

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    Philbin knew Martin was struggling with depression and did everything he could to help him, including checking up on him and talking to his parents.

    Martin never told Philbin about the harassment from teammates. No one did because it was between the guys in the locker room. Plenty of people can be blamed and should be fired but I don't see how Philbin did anything wrong. All of this goes against what he stands for.
     
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  35. Kucha

    Kucha Season Ticket Holder

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    Anyone else think that Pouncey could be traded? He's our only reliable lineman, but Philbin doesn't seem to be willing to suffer misconduct.
     
  36. Jimmy James

    Jimmy James Ron Swanson

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    I don't think he turned a blind eye as much as he sulked because he didn't get his way in terms of releasing Incognito. He more took his ball and went home if you ask me than turned a blind eye.
     
  37. Jimmy James

    Jimmy James Ron Swanson

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    We're coming up on 20 years since then. The world has changed.
     
  38. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    I love Doug Stanhope's "I Hate the Jews" bit. A perfect illustration of what you are talking about.
     
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  39. jim1

    jim1 New Member

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    If true, further evidence that Philbin makes a better assistant coach than a head coach.
     
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  40. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    But have nfl locker rooms?
     

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