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Ted Wells Report on Incognito / Martin released

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Vinny Fins, Feb 14, 2014.

  1. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I agree with the wells report against the players accused.

    Their to stupid to know where the line is, their to stupid to know when someone is not mentally strong enough to absorb their verbal ribbing and assaults..Their to stupid to know when someone is vulnerable.

    He's a bully..and Jerry and Pouncey are a couple of PU$$ies for following his lead.

    I feel for Martin, this was not his fault, it's not how life and friends and joking around should go down, there were signs where he was saddened and uncomfortable with the idiots, but they were just to stupid to get them.

    Pouncey on the trade block, he's dog crap.

    I've been saying recently I just don't trust but a few on this team, the way the last two games went down is something I've been thinking about since it happened, this type of energy in the locker room is not condusive to a championship team mindset..

    I also do not trust brain Hartline..the way he spoke up, I don't trust his little punk ***.

    Draft Michael Sam..I want that guy as our new leader..
     
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  2. Jimmy James

    Jimmy James Ron Swanson

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    Well, this just shows Incognito is a genius. Maybe at that point he should have thought WTF maybe this is going too far. I will say this much for the guy...he's a racist homophobe waste but I do think what he was doing was being done in a completely misguided attempt to build the OL into a unit (likely a unit that thinks like him but still a unit).
     
  3. Larryfinfan

    Larryfinfan 17-0...Priceless Club Member

    Look, right wrong or indifferent, there is an unwritten rule about coaches invading the locker room in most football organizations... It's not surprising that Philbin wasn't in on what was happening. Now, could he have his mouthpieces that keep him informed, yea, but not all coaches have/want to have that. And as to riding Cogs...he was the second best OL we had and Pouncey (an apparent key member of this troupe) is the best OL... If he rides those guys too hard, he could have lost the team completely...
     
  4. Jimmy James

    Jimmy James Ron Swanson

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    If he rode Incognito maybe he could have saved Pouncey a lot of trouble. I agree with you about Philbin can't go stand next to Incognito in the locker room but yes he should have had some trusted spies. SMH
     
  5. His'nBeatYour'n

    His'nBeatYour'n Glass Ceiling Repairman

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    With the juiciest bits released, here is my conclusion:

    Ritchie Incognito is a childish alpha male douchebag.

    Jonathan Martin is just plain soft.

    Incognito believed that being a douchebag made him charming , and those he targeted tougher. Maybe sometimes it worked, but seeing how ****ty the Dolphins offensive line has been since he arrived, it had the opposite effect.

    However, the unrelenting amount of stuff that Jonathan Martin absolutely put up with without fighting back is embarrassing. If he ever tried talking to someone who had the power to stop the behavior, I might conclude otherwise. I feel awful for the kid. He just didn't seem to have the tools to deal with it.

    The only time Martin seemed to ever communicate to Incognito that he was being affected by his treatment, is when he contemplated suicide and when he quit. But both times, rather than standing up for himself or just pleading for mercy, he just deflected by telling Incognito it was due to job related stress.

    It might never have been as bad for Martin if he wasn't on the same offensive line as Incognito, but it will never be good for him until he learns how to stand up for himself. I'm no tough guy, I hated fighting. But I learned how to stand up for myself when I was 5.

    With Nate Garner claiming he had been dealing with this for 6 years, and the consensus that he got the worst of it, I think I've figured out why this O-line has been so terrible for do long. The douchebag alpha male culture, established by whomever, but clearly continued by everyone from Jake Long to Jim Turner, just didn't work. It was just destructive and likely short circuited the development of any real cohesion by this unit.
     
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  6. Ronnie Bass

    Ronnie Bass Luxury Box Luxury Box

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    Andrew Abramson ‏@AbramsonPBP · 5m
    Report: Garner, who owns several guns, was harassed so heavily that Incongito joked he might come to training facility and shoot everyone.

    Andrew Abramson ‏@AbramsonPBP · 4m
    Dolphins log of fines. pic.twitter.com/7iteytwnrs

    [​IMG]

    Adam Beasley ‏@AdamHBeasley · 3m
    Martin reached out to his mother in January 2013 to tell her he had "really severe depression" and couldn't get out of bed.

    Andrew Abramson ‏@AbramsonPBP · 1m
    Now it's turning into Watergate. On Nov. 3, Incognito texed Pouncey & Garner and asked them to destroy the fine book.

    Andrew Abramson ‏@AbramsonPBP · 1m
    Report: "Incognito's attempt to destroy the fine book is a classic example of evidence demonstrating consciousness of wrongdoing"

    Adam Beasley ‏@AdamHBeasley · 58s
    Incognito seemed to bathe in racial slurs. When he wasn't using the N-word, he'd use the code word "Ninja" or "blackness."

    Andrew Abramson ‏@AbramsonPBP · 42s
    Report: Martin's reps who said Martin endured a "malicious physical attack" exaggerated.

    Andrew Abramson ‏@AbramsonPBP · 59s
    Report: Incongito punched Martin at a part at Pouncey's house but not hard enough to draw blood or bruise.
     
  7. Ronnie Bass

    Ronnie Bass Luxury Box Luxury Box

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    Adam Beasley ‏@AdamHBeasley · 49s
    Apparently, Player B didn't much like Jeff Ireland. Joked about shooting him.

    Andrew Abramson ‏@AbramsonPBP · 2m
    Report: Martin said Incognito "sometimes shoved him or ate food taken from his locker." Sounds like elementary school.
     
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  8. finyank13

    finyank13 Reality Check

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    Thank God Ian Rapoport though Martin was coming back....:shifty:
     
  9. Ronnie Bass

    Ronnie Bass Luxury Box Luxury Box

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    Andrew Abramson ‏@AbramsonPBP · 17s
    Report: "Philbin was not aware of the mistreatment of Martin, Player A or the Assistant Trainer."
     
  10. Rouk

    Rouk Well-Known Member

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    The report says that in late April of 2013, Martin's mother flew to Florida to console her son and encourage him to seek psychiatric help. In May, Martin's father had what the report describes as a "father-to-father" conversation with Dolphins head coach Joe Philbin about Martin, during which Philbin assured Martin's father that team would do whatever it could to help Martin.

    sounds like philbin knew imo
     
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  11. Ronnie Bass

    Ronnie Bass Luxury Box Luxury Box

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    Adam Beasley ‏@AdamHBeasley · 3m
    The correspondence between Martin and his mother his heartbreaking stuff. JM went on a yacht party w RI and others. Mom asks how it went ...

    Adam Beasley ‏@AdamHBeasley · 4m
    Martin's response: "I’m never gonna change. I got punked again today. Like a little *****. And I never do anything about it."

    Adam Beasley ‏@AdamHBeasley · 3m
    Martin's final quote: "I was sobbing in a rented yacht bathroom earlier."

    Adam Beasley ‏@AdamHBeasley · 2m
    After the yacht incident, Martin took time away from the team. Turner reached out to ask why. Martin told him about his depression.

    Adam Beasley ‏@AdamHBeasley · 3m
    Martin acknowledged having suicidal thoughts in January 2013. Didn't say it was bc of behavior by teammates bc he didn't want to be a snitch

    Andrew Abramson ‏@AbramsonPBP · 4m
    Report: Incognito said Ireland and Gaine each told him 2012 "to take responsibility for making Martin physically tougher & stronger"

    Andrew Abramson ‏@AbramsonPBP · 4m
    Incognito said instructions to make Martin tougher didn't mean hazing him but helping to improve him in the weight room.

    Andrew Abramson ‏@AbramsonPBP · 3m
    Incognito's version of toughening up Martin is what we reported in November. They wanted him tougher but there was no "code red" to hurt him

    Andrew Abramson ‏@AbramsonPBP · 2m
    Ireland and Gaine denied to investigators they instructed Incognito to make Martin "tougher."

    Andrew Abramson ‏@AbramsonPBP · 2m
    Report determined it didn't matter if Incognito or Ireland/Gaine were telling truth because the toughening up was not meant as harassment.

    Andrew Abramson ‏@AbramsonPBP · 2m
    Report: Days after Martin left the team, Turner started texting Martin telling him to DO THE RIGHT THING, NOW and back Incognito.

    Adam Beasley ‏@AdamHBeasley · 3m
    Philbin was made aware of Martin's depression, and had him get help.

    Andrew Abramson ‏@AbramsonPBP · 2m
    Martin responded to Turner that when he texted Incognito it was manipulated and sent to a reporter, so he wasn't making anymore statements

    Andrew Abramson ‏@AbramsonPBP · 2m
    Turner texted to Martin: "Put an end to this. You are a grown man. Do the right thing."
     
  12. Rhody Phins Fan

    Rhody Phins Fan Well-Known Member

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    **** Incognito. How could he possibly think that this was good for the team?
     
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  13. Ducken

    Ducken Luxury Box Luxury Box

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    I was willing to give Philbin 1 more year, but his complete Ostrich imitation has completely soured me on him. I am so ashamed of this team from the owner down.
     
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  14. LBsFinest

    LBsFinest Banned

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    I've been ashamed of this team for half a decade now.
     
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  15. finyank13

    finyank13 Reality Check

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    I have to ask a question here and lets be realistic for a minute.....Garner said he was dealing with this for 6 years.

    My question is, How in God's green earth did Philbin not know? Word travels, moral issues are raised, etc, etc, etc....I am sorry I am calling bull**** on Philbin not knowing, and I am either here or there on him. I actually said over and over again that I hope he gets one more year (before I knew it cost us good GM's)

    And lets say he truly didnt know, IMO it is actually worse then if he DID know. HOW THE HELL COULDN'T HE HAVE KNOWN?!?!?!?! Think about it...
     
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  16. Itsdahumidity

    Itsdahumidity X gonna take it from ya

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    There it is folks. As strange as it might have been, if the father of one of your players has to speak to you(not about playing time mind you but harassment), as HC wouldn't you get to the bottom of it?
     
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  17. His'nBeatYour'n

    His'nBeatYour'n Glass Ceiling Repairman

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    Philbin convinces everyone he talks to how good of a guy he is. He's been a bad head coach so far. He's definitely coaching the team in 2014. You can only hope this report and his final 2 game collapse convinces him that his approach has failed, and he charts a new path.
     
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  18. 2socks

    2socks Rebuilding Since 1973

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    Welcome to the NFL. I am not surprised that most here would jump on the "morals wagon".

    These guys are full of testosterone and do what guys do......**** with each other. Most of you would go along if you were being paid millions to get punched and kicked and abused for 20 weeks or so. Sometimes more if your on one of the better teams......:shifty:. They tolerate what they have to to get the job done. Incognito didn't invent the culture. The culture of being tough has developed over decades. The culture exists because the guys partake. Just like college hazing. It has existed since college started. Only since the media has sensationalized a few incidents has it even become what it has become - morally challenged. Despite the attention it still exists across the country, probably much worse then we have ever heard about.

    If the NFL desires to make a big deal about what happened (Don't have a choice), then sanctions and firings will occur. I have not read the entire report, but I have read a good portion. I see guys who were friends going back and forth between each other who all contributed. Not sure of Martin's intent other then it is my suspicion he was on his way out and or already had issues emotionally and couldn't handle it. All I see is a team that will now pay the price for whatever "High-Horse" the commissioner must now ride and whatever morality level he decides he will hold The Dolphins to. After all it is the Dolphins he will be holding the morality to, not Martin, Incognito, Pouncy or Turner.

    I see Martin as an unfortunate causality to what is the NFL. He was weak emotionally, and cracked under the pressure of being an NFL Linemen. This is the NFL culture and the Commissioner will make sure everyone thinks it is not. Nothing will change except the token handing out of suspensions and or banishment. The NFL culture will live on no matter which horse Goodell decides to ride this day or any other.
     
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  19. His'nBeatYour'n

    His'nBeatYour'n Glass Ceiling Repairman

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    I'm no Philbin fan.

    But I don't think that is accurate.

    Wells concluded that Philbin wasn't aware of the harassment. Given Martin's mental health issues, and his pattern of refusing to rat out his teammates, it doesn't seem as if that conversation between Philbin and Martin's dad was about harassment.
     
  20. Jimmy James

    Jimmy James Ron Swanson

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    This is pretty much where I am at. I get that he wanted to get rid of Incognito but Ireland pulled rank. It seems like he went with turning a blind eye and sulking as his recourse.
     
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  21. Vinny Fins

    Vinny Fins Feisty Brooklyn dolfan ️‍

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    Richie Incognito ASSAULTED A WOMAN WITH A GOLF CLUB and we didnt cut him?
     
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  22. finfansince72

    finfansince72 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Nope. You think the sex dolls and the Pearl Harbor day stuff would honestly be tolerated by teams? I don't. I know if that was done in the Army units I was in people would have been demoted or had pay taken. This stuff wasn't normal behavior.
     
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  23. vt_dolfan

    vt_dolfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    Um...

    So...Jonathan Martin's sister squirts. Wonder if shes hawt.....

    :whistling:
     
  24. finfansince72

    finfansince72 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    This one amazes me to this day. I would cut or trade any player in the league for what he did on the golf course. I'm serious, I would trade Andrew Luck or Calvin Johnson if they did that. And we kept this idiot?
     
  25. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    What comes of this? That's one interesting thing.

    Kevin O'Neill not only heard the abuse directed toward the Japanese trainer and laughed it off, he abruptly ended his interview and expressed hostility toward the investigation. He has to be DONE for that. The NFL does not take kindly to non-cooperation.

    Jim Turner is also likely to be dismissed. It isn't just his witnessing and even participation in the abuse. It's the fact that he lied to Ted Wells and Wells put that in his report. Again, Roger Goodell comes down HARDEST on people who don't fully cooperate with these investigations.

    John Jerry is a free agent, and he will not be asked back by the team. I don't know what suspensions he will face but his physically inappropriate abuse of Andrew McDonald will likely ensure that it's a harsh one.

    Mike Pouncey could also face a harsh penalty. Simon suspects an 8-game suspension. My gut tells me a 4-game suspension but Simon believes it gets juiced up to 8 games because of the current Michael Sam situation. Pouncey not only engaged in bad stuff, but Wells specifically noted that he felt Pouncey was not being truthful with him. Remember, Roger Goodell comes down HARDEST on people who don't cooperate in his investigations or that he feels are lying to him. That's his established pattern.

    Richie Incognito is a free agent and will not be asked back. He will also likely suffer an indefinite suspension to where he will have to ask to be allowed back into the league in 2015.

    Jonathan Martin is now REALLY tough to say. Seriously. I now suspect that the rumor of him being back with the team in 2014 was NOT just positioning for a trade. After all of this has come out, how in the hell can the team cut the man? He would have to give them express permission and/or direction to release him. It would have to be explicit and public. They can't afford to do it. They can't cut him. Yet will ANY team in the NFL want to trade anything, even a conditional draft pick in 2025 or some such, for him? If the 49ers decide against it, then I'm pretty sure everyone will decide against it. If there were EVER a situation where a team is tempted to "pay off" another team in order to trade for a guy...it's this. Can the Dolphins send Martin and a 6th round pick to San Francisco for a 7th round pick? In all reality they can't but if they could, they would be tempted.

    Dolphins Draft is where I'm really interested in seeing what happens. Will Miami be assessed a draft pick penalty as a result of this? Remember, the NFL took a pick away from the Saints for the whole bounty incident. This incident is being positioned VERY equivalent to that one and Roger Goodell will wish to send a message like he did with the Saints.
     
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  26. Deerless Dice

    Deerless Dice Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Philbin knew it Martin was having issues, but he didn't know the cause was because of the treatment from IP&J. It seems Martin only told his family of this, and even they didn't tell Philbin when the opportunity arose.
     
  27. Eop05

    Eop05 Junior Member Club Member

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    Assuming Pouncey is suspended for 8 games (or even 4), we go into 2014 with 0 starting Lineman.

    Think about that for a second. I cannot see any possibility of success. Even if we piece together via FA and draft, no one will have worked with each other. I cannot recall this ever happening
     
  28. Finfan7273

    Finfan7273 New Member

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    Say what you want about Martin, but the harassment of the Japanese trainer is completely unfu**ing acceptable.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
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  29. Itsdahumidity

    Itsdahumidity X gonna take it from ya

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    I hear you, but turner also said he didn't remember saying/doing some of those things. If Martin's dad reveals what was discussed joe is done.
     
  30. Sethdaddy8

    Sethdaddy8 Well-Known Member

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    And it's a wonder why our o-line was so pathetic. An entire unit, getting bullied by weak *** scrubs...

    Nate Garner has been one of our better and most versatile o-lineman. And they bully him? He allows himself to get bullied?

    Sheeeeeeeeit.
     
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  31. Jimmy James

    Jimmy James Ron Swanson

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    I think Miami saves themselves a draft pick penalty by firing everybody who needs to be fired and giving Martin an outright release (with appropriate compensation cap penalty free I hope). The fact that Philbin very clearly did not know will be the saving grace and is the difference between this and the Saints, I think.
     
  32. finyank13

    finyank13 Reality Check

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    Right!?!? Behind all the talk of it is 2014, or everybody has feelings cuz racial slurs are being thrown around like they have for years upon years.....you aren't punching somebody in the face over it??!?! Garner took **** for 6 years and never jackjawed somebody in the teeth, wow....If this where my kid I would be pretty upset at it....

    Honestly what a bunch of weak *******....Pouncey has a punchable face too....
     
  33. MikeHoncho

    MikeHoncho -=| Censored |=-

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    Said I, on the first day.
     
  34. finyank13

    finyank13 Reality Check

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    Wanna make a statement? Cut Pouncey.....see ya....I want professional footballers on this team.....

    As for Martin?

     
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  35. Itsdahumidity

    Itsdahumidity X gonna take it from ya

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    Yeah CK it's not looking good for us. Take into account M. Sam's announcement and the harassment claims in the report. The timing couldn't have been worse. The world is watching.
     
  36. MikeHoncho

    MikeHoncho -=| Censored |=-

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    Probably give up less sacks. Not even joking.
     
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  37. Sumlit

    Sumlit Well-Known Member

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    What a cluster****. This ****ing mess would go down easier on the fans if the team was winning, but they can't even do that. I'm truly at the edge of apathy with regards to this team.
     
  38. Jimmy James

    Jimmy James Ron Swanson

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    There is a way to send the right message without doing anything to the draft. In fact I think you can explain that away as Goodell by pointing out that the team by releasing Martin so he can sign with the Niners and perhaps by releasing Pouncey are doing things to address the situation that otherwise harm the team so a draft penalty would not be appropriate.
     
  39. finfansince72

    finfansince72 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Pouncey has to get a serious suspension. I think Simon is right and adding to this the "Free Hernandez" nonsense, he can't be Goodell's favorite player already so he's going to get a tough suspension. I wouldn't be shocked at 8 games. I think we do have to resolve the situation with Martin, we can probably come to some sort of release agreement with him where we pay him off basically and he says he has no hard feelings and goes elsewhere. We can't let that drag on and we haven't handled things very well up until now so who knows.
    The draft pick thing is scary, we NEED young talent at key positions on our Oline, CB positions, RBs, etc. If they took our first or second rounder that would be huge. It would change our whole draft philosophy obviously and how we approach Free agency as well. I hope we don't get this type of punishment but I wouldn't be shocked about it either.
     
  40. phinswolverinesrockets

    phinswolverinesrockets If he dies, he dies

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    jim turner...smh. what the hell does it take to get this idiot off our team???
     

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