1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

So would u give Ireland one last year?

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by dolfan40, Dec 15, 2013.

  1. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    39,159
    21,798
    113
    Nov 29, 2007
    San Diego
    I don't know why it's your mission to push Aponte has some sort of power over Ireland.

    Ireland makes the decision and Aponte gets it done. Overseeing the budget doesn't mean she sets it. If anyone sets it it's Ross.
     
    MrClean likes this.
  2. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

    44,356
    22,480
    113
    Mar 22, 2008
    Someone said that Ireland could have spent more, but chose not to. That is what sparked the conversation. I don't agree with the characterization that Ireland makes decisions that affect tens of millions worth of cash flow. As you said, that is most likely the decision made by Ross. I'm not pushing Aponte having any powers. I'm saying that Ireland's are greatly exaggerated.

    Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk
     
  3. 2socks

    2socks Rebuilding Since 1973

    8,141
    2,103
    113
    Nov 27, 2008
    Atlanta
    I would sign Ireland to a 3 yr contract extension
     
  4. mroz

    mroz Fix the OL Club Member

    25,867
    24,359
    113
    Oct 26, 2008
    SF Bay Area
    are you guys really judging a draft 14 games into thier careers? really? How pathetic is that...
     
  5. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    31,608
    55,632
    113
    Nov 25, 2007
    I don't think it's controversial to say that Dawn Aponte technically has a veto on some personnel decisions. I'm not sure that she in practice has actually exercised it, but if Ireland wants a free agent whom is adamant on an inadvisable amount of money or contract structure, I think she could certainly tell him no. She can't veto a player on the basis of not liking a player, but I imagine she can in practice result in a situation where the Dolphins went with one player over another for salary concerns, or otherwise influence the decisions being made on the personnel side.

    The way the salary cap has been run recently has changed too much for me to believe that she's essentially the Dolphins equivalent of an agent.
     
  6. MiamiMan147

    MiamiMan147 Season Ticket Holder

    209
    69
    0
    Nov 26, 2007
    Ireland drafted a DE, already a position of strength, at the 3rd overall pick when we had a glaring need at tackle. We could have had Lane Johnson from the start of the season, and we probably would have won 3 of those close games. Although he's hit on some FA acquisitions and late round picks, his early picks are pretty bad outside of Tannehill (and I consider drafting QBs to be 98% luck, so that doesn't really impress me). His latest draft has so far shown nothing. And to top it all off, he still makes an *** of himself and embarrasses the franchise.

    If I was Ross, he'd be gone.
     
  7. Deerless Dice

    Deerless Dice Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    2,288
    2,486
    113
    Oct 30, 2013
    Drafting for need in the 1st round is generally a bad strategy that comes back to bite you in the long run. You realize that you're mad at a guy for not taking the 3rd best offensive tackle over the best defensive prospect in the entire draft. Cam Wake won't be here forever and by the time he's done, Jordan will be ready to step in for him.

    I agree with everything else you say about Ireland, but picking Jordan over Johnson is a move you make every single time.
     
    gunn34 and Dol-Fan Dupree like this.
  8. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    39,159
    21,798
    113
    Nov 29, 2007
    San Diego
    Ross: You can spend $120 out of the $130 cap.

    Ireland goes and picks players. That's it. Ireland has final say. Nobody is going to add a player to the team without Ireland at least acquiescing. Leave the budget stuff for the bean counters.

    Can Aponte "veto" a move based on monies? Depends. She pretended to on Hard Knocks in that contrived scene (felt as real as a scene on the Kardashian show).
     
    MrClean likes this.
  9. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

    44,356
    22,480
    113
    Mar 22, 2008
    You literally pointed out how Jeff Ireland does not have final say, then you claimed he has final say :wacko:

    The reality is that nobody is going to add a player to the team without Ireland's acquiescence. His departments are the ones that evaluate these players.

    The reality also is that Jeff Ireland does not decide how much money he can spend. He also does not negotiate contracts. Those are major components of acquiring and releasing players. He cannot have final say unless he has control over those processes. Do you think Jeff Ireland could cut Mike Wallace, and have the team eat all that dead money? Hell no. He has a role, and that role is to oversee the departments that evaluate football players. That is a crucial component to building a roster, but there is a lot more to it.

    How much of a voice does Jeff Ireland have? What kind of process does the team use when deciding who to sign and release? Nobody here has the requisite information. Case in point, the example you bring up from Hard Knocks. Nobody knows who truly decides if the Dolphins are going to insist on offset language, and how far that will go. Its an opaque process with a number of vested parties.
     
  10. Fineas

    Fineas Club Member Luxury Box

    18,216
    23,521
    113
    Jan 5, 2008
    I think this is correct. None of these moves are based on a single budget for a single year. They impact multiple years and there are a lot of moving parts. Take Wallace as a hypothetical. I think we can assume Ireland wanted Wallace. But gettign him required Wallace to agree to the contract and its structure. But if Wallace and his agent had insisted on a very different structure that the Dolphins may have deemed financially inadvisable he wouldn't be here. And I don't think Ireland is the one making those financial advisability decisions for several years into the future. Nor is he the real contract negotiator (as I understand it). If you are basing your assessment on who actually comes here, I don't think you can separate the talent evaluation side from the financial side. I don't think Ireland would be free to make a bunch of moves that create a $200 million obligation in any given year without approval by Aponte or Ross or both.
     
  11. the 23rd

    the 23rd a.k.a. Rio

    9,173
    2,398
    113
    Apr 20, 2009
    Tampa Area
    the guy is a hero & intricate part of the team.
    he is the Acorn-Man!
    celebrate his many contributions to the franchise.
    he's earned his respect from this forum & throughout Dolfandom.
     
  12. LBsFinest

    LBsFinest Banned

    3,972
    2,062
    0
    Jul 24, 2012
    in news that shouldn't surprise anyone, dolphins fans aren't the only ones who think he shoulda been fired, Mike Silver followed up his assertion from last month that Ireland's reputation in league circles is for being a guy who they can't believe still has his job by quoting an NFL owner sunday on NFL Network as saying Ireland's continued employment "the craziest thing I've seen in the NFL, more absurd than Matt Millen."

    how embarrassing.
     
  13. KB21

    KB21 Almost Never Wrong Club Member

    24,029
    40,478
    113
    Dec 6, 2007
    It really is. I've said it several times. What other GM has his track record as well as being at the head of the organization through three tremendous public black eyes that shame the organization and has kept his job?
     
  14. Fin-Omenal

    Fin-Omenal Initiated

    36,936
    10,264
    0
    Mar 25, 2008
    Thee...Ohio State University
    I mean, the arrow is pointing up and we are in good cap shape...kind of on the fence.
     
  15. MonstBlitz

    MonstBlitz Nobody's Fart Catcher

    21,176
    10,130
    113
    Jan 14, 2008
    Hornell, NY
    You have to love the fact that many fans on this board choose to be angrier at fans that don't like Jeff Ireland than they do at the GM who actually is a very large cause of why this team has been so mediocre to poor over the past several years. Angrier at fans who do not like Jeff Ireland than the very man who took this teams' franchise hope at QB and surrounded him with a terrible offensive line. That's the way it will always be though. Until he's eventually fired and everyone pretends they never liked him. Kind of like they did for a very brief moment when it looked all but assured that Ireland would be fired. How quickly they hopped right back on the bandwagon as soon as it looked like his job is safe.
     
    KB21 likes this.
  16. BigDogsHunt

    BigDogsHunt Enough talk...prove it!

    22,422
    9,819
    0
    Nov 27, 2007
    DC Metro Area
    I am the first to admit I dont know what Ross is thinking, but I think a change is coming. The arrow up right now is HUGE in Philbins favor (and based on PS squad moves a slight tick up to Ireland - I just dont know much since the alleged OL incident who is calling more of the shots behind the scenes now)....and the good cap space from all published reports are Aponte and not Ireland.

    Again, these 3 past weeks may be the worst time to measure......I think the past public discretion and the actions leading up to the OL incident is the true measuring stick.

    These final two weeks will mean more perhaps to Philbin retention then any thing toward Ireland. But again, I have said it before, I hope Ross has already made up his mind and not waiting for total # of wins to decide their fate.
     
  17. Fin-Omenal

    Fin-Omenal Initiated

    36,936
    10,264
    0
    Mar 25, 2008
    Thee...Ohio State University
    Philbin has absolutely no reason to be fired.
     
  18. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    39,159
    21,798
    113
    Nov 29, 2007
    San Diego
    He has final say in personnel decisions. He's not the owner. He's not league commissioner. You can look at the salary cap of the NFL and say not even the owners have final say because they can't spend $200 million in salaries if they wanted to. But that is a ridiculous argument, and so is this one.

    He has final say. There may be restrictions on that, but this isn't some authority hanging over Ireland it's restrictions on what you can do. Ireland chooses the players. They have a team in place to see if it can be done. But that doesn't equal veto power or higher authority. It represents information. Information Ireland uses to choose players or not.

    If I tell my financial planner I want to buy a $3 million dollar house, but he tells me, my finances only allow a $750,000 house, does my financial planner have final say over my life decisions? No. If my mortgage broker tells me I only qualify for a $750k house, does he have final say? If the underwriter at the bank tells me I can only purchase a $300k house, does she have final say?

    Does General Counsel who tells a Fortune 100 CEO he cannot make a certain move for legal reasons have final say over the company? No. It's just information. The CEO still makes the decision.
     
    KB21 likes this.
  19. LBsFinest

    LBsFinest Banned

    3,972
    2,062
    0
    Jul 24, 2012
    honestly we should all be angrier with our idiot owner than Ireland, he's the only one with the power to actually do something, he's the one who didn't fire him, he's the one who loves to give guys extensions coming off consecutive losing seasons, we have to have the worst owner-gm combo in the entire league.
     
  20. BigDogsHunt

    BigDogsHunt Enough talk...prove it!

    22,422
    9,819
    0
    Nov 27, 2007
    DC Metro Area
    I think it may have been iffy for a while, but I personally feel the Ross PC following the OL incident gave me the feeling that Philbin was far more safe than Ireland...as long as no new stuff popped up, etc.

    The turnaround from performance seems to have vindicated things perhaps.

    Per the PC today this comment by Philbin was interesting:

    Again, I just wonder what Ross is thinking about any GM move this offseason.
     
  21. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

    44,356
    22,480
    113
    Mar 22, 2008
    These things are not analogous. You pay your financial advisor, he doesn't pay you. An analogous situation would be you hiring someone to build you a house.

    Correct, and in this analogy, Jeff Ireland is the general counsel, not the CEO.
     
  22. Larryfinfan

    Larryfinfan 17-0...Priceless Club Member

    BDH...that is a standard "team concept" response. Whether or not it's actually done this way, we don't know, but Philbin sounds to me to be the kind that you'd never hear from him that Ireland [or anyone else] forced him to pick up a particular guy. The fact is that the bottom line for adding a guy belongs to Irish, but that doesn't mean he doesn't consult with Philbin and his staff before they actually acquire someone...that would be textbook disfunction...
     
    gunn34 and BigDogsHunt like this.
  23. BigDogsHunt

    BigDogsHunt Enough talk...prove it!

    22,422
    9,819
    0
    Nov 27, 2007
    DC Metro Area
    concur....do wonder what Jeff's answer would have been to identical question...LOL:wink2:
     
  24. xphinfanx

    xphinfanx Stay strong my friends.

    10,823
    2,214
    113
    Nov 1, 2009
    [​IMG]
     
  25. Den54

    Den54 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    19,679
    31,348
    113
    Nov 23, 2007
    AMERICA!
    Meth is a helluva a drug.
     
    GMJohnson likes this.
  26. Ludacris

    Ludacris Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    6,974
    3,564
    113
    Jan 8, 2008
    I was on the fence until the season started but now I want Ireland gone because of the holes he keeps creating each year. I'm a bit sure that next year he will create a hole at DT if not somewhere else. If the Fins don't make the AFC championship game I would like to see a new GM take the roster further. Ireland can easily get a job elsewhere in personnel.

    I credit the coaching staff for Tannehill more than Ireland. Sherman and probably Philbin were the ones who probably rallied for him. All Ireland did was get a 3rd party outside opinion and made a final call if I recall correctly. If it weren't for the coaches, Ireland would have picked on the OL or DL and drafted a QB in the second round because that's who he is.

    Just my personal opinion.
     
    KB21 likes this.
  27. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    39,159
    21,798
    113
    Nov 29, 2007
    San Diego
    I'm not going to keep Ireland around because he found a QB after 6 years, after being involved with Chad Henne and Pat White. There are 22 starters and 53 players. Barring injury we're not drafting another QB high anytime soon. You look at his ability to assemble talent around the QB position at this point. How is that not hard to comprehend? Bill Polian found Peyton Manning. Now go through his last decade of drafts and ask if you want those? Not saying Ireland=Polian but that's why you do this evaluation.
     
  28. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    39,159
    21,798
    113
    Nov 29, 2007
    San Diego
    I was going to say something similar but remembered a report by CK or someone that Ireland liked Tannehill a while back? I might be mistaken, but that gave me pause.
     
  29. Anonymous

    Anonymous Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    13,969
    3,367
    113
    Jul 5, 2009
    Do you think he's doing a good job assembling the roster, outside of Tannehill?
     
  30. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    39,159
    21,798
    113
    Nov 29, 2007
    San Diego
    They are not perfectly analogous but close enough. Aponte, like these other advisors, whether in-house or outsourced, are providing information. Getting things done.

    Not really. Who is pulling the trigger on a player?
     
  31. KB21

    KB21 Almost Never Wrong Club Member

    24,029
    40,478
    113
    Dec 6, 2007
    Nope.
     
  32. KB21

    KB21 Almost Never Wrong Club Member

    24,029
    40,478
    113
    Dec 6, 2007
    Apparently no one is. That could be why we have done such a crappy job at building a roster. Obviously, certain folks don't want Jeff Ireland blamed for that.
     
  33. Anonymous

    Anonymous Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    13,969
    3,367
    113
    Jul 5, 2009
    Are you Jdang307?
     
  34. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

    44,356
    22,480
    113
    Mar 22, 2008
    The owner signs the contract. The decision is made among collective groups of people, just like any enterprise. Nobody within the organization can make unilateral decisions aside from the owner himself.
     
  35. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    The final authority on if a player is added to or subtracted from the team is Ireland.
     
  36. Ludacris

    Ludacris Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    6,974
    3,564
    113
    Jan 8, 2008
    If that's the case then it may be a matter of how much Ireland liked Tannehill. Was it enough at the 8th overall pick?
     
  37. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    Since Ireland was hired as GM in 2008, up until today, the team has a regular season record of 56-58. That in of itself is as mediocre as a record could be. Now, we may win the next game or two and make the playoffs, and may win a game or two there. It is possible. If that happens, I suppose one could make a reasonable argument to keep him. If we don't make the playoffs or back in and go one and done, that is just more of the same mediocre/average/ordinary we have been experiencing over his tenure. Some of you maybe satisfied with that. Those of us who remember the season after season of nearly always making the playoffs and/or having a winning record for year after year perhaps are less likely to be as satisfied.
    There is also the adage of better the known than the unknown. Ireland isn't so terrible as a GM. He is no Dave Wannstedt as a GM, thankfully. So perhaps if we do hire someone new, they could be better, but they could also turn out to be worse. So, do we play it safe, hope for better results down the road, and stick with him, or do we take a little risk, and bring in someone new who could be better, but perhaps won't be?
     
  38. TooGoodForDez

    TooGoodForDez Deion Sanders for GM

    3,840
    636
    0
    Feb 26, 2013
    Have heart, fire that bum today!
     
  39. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

    40,533
    33,035
    113
    Dec 11, 2007
    Generally when I am for firing people it is because I do not believe they are going to get any better at their job. I was for firing Wanstedt because historically he was horrible at being a GM, and the team was getting worse and worse every year he was GM. It was also his second time being GM and it didn't look like he learned from his mistakes.

    Ireland on the other hand built a mediocre team for Sparano and I would have been fine with him being fired with him. However I do see his time with Philbin as a new tenure. Yes, there are teams that switch tenure and improved a lot, however that is generally due to either great coaching, finding a much better quarterback or the team suffering from freakish injury and not really being that bad.

    Since his second tenure he was 7-9 and then 8-6. If Miami goes 8-8, then sure, I can see firing him as a possibility. If Miami goes 10-6 and looks like they have turned a corner, I find it hard to fire him because he has shown the ability to build a pretty good roster. No team in the NFL has zero holes, even the great Seattle Seahawks are only mediocre at best at Wide Receiver and offensive line with the added benefit of having no depth at line. If Russell Wilson wasn't such an escape artist and Lynch didn't have excellent vision and a great ability to break tackles, they would be in trouble on offense.

    If I look at the line chart of Ireland's years, right now it is trending up. It is also trending up with mostly young players, all the first four draft picks, and plenty of cap room. Yes he has made some mistakes in the past, and maybe he has learned from a lot of them.

    I am not someone who is in love with Ireland and believes he shouldn't be fired. I can see the argument for firing him, however if Miami does go 10-6 I find it hard to justify. Plus reading people who want him fired is like reading people who hate people for stupid reasons and are finding the smallest most petty reasons to fire him.
     
    slickj101 and GMJohnson like this.
  40. KB21

    KB21 Almost Never Wrong Club Member

    24,029
    40,478
    113
    Dec 6, 2007
    The potential of an upgrade when it comes to public relations and media relations makes it well worth the risk to dump Ireland and bring in someone that is more of a people person and comes from a better system of evaluating talent. I would recommend getting anyone associated with the Green Bay Packers front office for several reasons:

    1. The Packers do not spend a lot of money in free agency.
    2. They are among the best drafting teams in the NFL since the 2000 season.
    3. They know how to handle the media and the fans.

    I'd recommend going after Eliot Wolf and making him the youngest GM in football.
     
    Marco likes this.

Share This Page