If we trade JT, then Chris Long should be our pick, need and past history of DE's at #1 would point to his selection as a good choice for us. Can Long play DE and LB as well?
There have been far more then 3 DT's picked at #1, none of them played their whole careers with the same team, why do you suppose that is? The only ones who panned out were Bubba Smith, and Russel Maryland, and he was only so-so. Alright, explain, fi you will, how Dorsey can play worse then in 2006 this season, and in 2006 he was never discussed as the #1 pick, and yet somehow this year he is the top rated player in the country? What has he done to deserve that other then being injured most of the year? Has he played better this year then last? If not, then why is he the #1 pick?
I honestly don't see why he couldn't make the transition back and forth. He seems to have the skill set and body type to fit both positions, but that is just speculation on my part.
The "A-#1" option for us is to look to trade down a few spots. There's going to be plenty of teams that want a crack at Brohm, McFadden, Dorsey, and Long. If we can trade down to 3, 4, or 5 we can still get a good player and avoid the money that the #1 and #2 pick would bring and we would gain extra picks this year and next. Our team has so many holes, just about any player we draft will fill a need. I haven't seen McFadden play very much, but from what I hear, he's special and a special player is a special player no matter what position. Dorsey and Long are beasts. Also I wouldn't completely rule out a QB pick, I mean you never know. I've watched Brohm for 4 years and I think he's going to be an outstanding QB at the NFL level. We drafted Beck last year so I seriously doubt we'll take a QB on the first day. More often than not the top picks are reserved for offensive skill postion players that touch the ball more than anyone else. But we already spent a high pick on Brown, and drafted a QB and WR last year. There's no WRs in this year's draft that warrant the #1 (too bad Calvin Johnson came out last year!). DE's are drafted pretty high, but Long is really going to have to blow up at the combine to be considered worthy of the #1. Is Dorsey a top 5 pick? Absolutely. Is he worth the #1? I have my questions...
1. We should try and trade down for picks, unless some team is hungry for a QB or Mcfad, I don't see it happening 2. We need a stud like dorsey in the middle, it frees up the MLB to do so much more. 3. If Not Dorsey, our next great need is I would say CB or saftey. 4. I would look for offense in FA and later rounds.
Dorsey was considered Neck and Neck With Okoye last year...top 10 guy...He returned for his senior year and was the focus of most teams protection schemes and still got numbers...He was Injured on one of the most dispicable Chop blocks I have ever seen and because he didnt want to let his team Down he has played thru the injury...by doing so he incured a lower back strain trying to compensate. I dont get what is not to like...Dorsey can play any inside spot 0 1 2 3 4 5 techiques he is incrdible strong and fast and TOUGH He Obviously loves the game or he would have come out for the Paycheck last year. Look at this interview and tell me this guy will dissapear once he gets a big payday. [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZ6ryLoUYvk[/ame] Sorry but I want that guy in a Dolphin Jersey...bad.
The McFadden talk is absolutely ridiculous. It will not happen. You're talking about spending a record contract and a #1 pick in the draft of on a position we've already got a starter at, and a guy we drafted in the 1st day last year on. Not with the holes on the team, not with Ronnie Brown on the team. Ronnie Brown isnt going to be traded. It's cost prohibitive to trade someone on their rookie contract in the top 2, especially one just a couple years into his contract. He's injury prone, but he's not major injury prone. His ACL injury came on a freak play. He's been banged up over the past two years, but it's not been serious, nor has he had a history of serious injury. McFadden also does not fit the profile of the runningback in Cameron's offense. He lacks the size, the power, and the receiving skills. He's got very nice speed and vision, but he's not a bruising back. The cure for dealing with Ronnie Brown's injury problem is not to replace him, or pay an amazing amount of resources for a guy who would be wasted, it's finding a quality backup. Resigning Jesse Chatman, or hopefully the light comes on for Booker. Not a huge expendature of resources.
Zeke wrote: It is not personal Zeke, not at all, it is more question of value for the #1 pick for me. And the history of DT's at #1 is just not that great, I do think he is a high character guy (thanks for pointing out he hasn't missed a game this year even though hurt) DT's can only do so much for a team, even "if" they demand a double team that happens all the time in the NFL, even if he keeps Centers off of the MLB, we can find a run stopper later in the draft or sign one. Lou made the point that offensive players go #1 because they handle the ball more, they make a serious difference DT's aren't difference makers, that is to say very very few are difference makers. If a McFadden is drafted, he could score who knows how many TD's? If a Long is drafted, he can not only "replace" JT, he can also get sacks and Int's, the best we can hope for is an occasional split of double team, and clogging the middle with Dorsey. We can do better then that IMO.
Nice post....Im not going to be upset If we take Dorsey or Long or Mcfadden #1 they are all Great prospects..My reasoning for wanting Dorsey has a lot to do with the begining of this Year...The Raider Game in Particular and most of the Others as well..Traylor is done after this year and Im not sure that any of the "lesser" DT prospects in the draft will have the Impact on our run Defense that Dorsey would..IMO a guy like him makes everyone around them Better IE Jammal Williams In diego he went Down and there entire defense took a dump.. now he is back (not fully healthy) and things are much better for them...Dorsey Can not only hold the point he can slip the block or split the double and make the tackle..those guys dont grow on trees.
Your only argument is history. You live in the past you get left behind. If the staff thinks he's worthy and that he's BPA then damn well they better pick him. If they factor need too much into this, that's where it gets problematic. Miami's in a spot that really they can go BPA on defense and could even justify taking Long on offense (prompting Carey back to RT and cutting Shelton). Plus the top 5 always shifts a lot up until a few months before draft then you can usually get a decent idea. The only idea that doesn't make sense is taking McFadden as really it's daft to take 2 RB's in the top 5 in a 3 year period. Trust Ronnie will get better but in the meantime keep solid backups behind him like Chatman. QB's get ruled out if Beck can show some solid hope before seasons end.
Dorsey and Rod Wright would make a good tandem Zeke. A good and young tandem. So I can see your point, Wright and Chris Long would make a good tandem as well. We'll see, this is pretty much all we got besides watching Ginn and Beck and maybe JA turn into good players right before us!
Oh? You got some info on this? That's not his job. He's a 1-gap defensive tackle. He's susposed to penetrate into the backfield and make tackles, not hold people off the linebackers. He's a Warren Sapp type DT. Once again, that theory runs astray of basically of what happens in practice and the theories of actual employable and successful personnel guys in the NFL. For example, Bill Parcells(A very successful GM and a guy famous for his ability to build teams) had his "Planet Theory"... Basically, that there are a limited amount of players on the planet(In the NFL) who have the physical size/speed combination to be an elite lineman. Bill Belichick, who has also been a little successful, seemingly holds that same theory(3 1st round DLmen, plus a 2nd and starter money resigning in Green) That's fantasty football thinking, not reality.
I like Drosey/Long over Mcfadden slightly only because I hold out Hope Ronnie wil be fine....If we go into april and he looks great rehabing I would doubt we draft him...I could of course be Very wrong If Mueller and company think he is the next Dickerson then they will Draft him...Of couse I would love to garner a bunch of Picks in a trade down...but getting Value is probably a pipe dream imo. And Cheers to Beck/Ginn/JA...and lets not forget Satele .
"Hey guys, what's going on? It's me, Ronnie! Hey, don't you remember me? I'm right here! Who's Darren? Did we get him off waivers? Hey, come back!"
I think Satele is so solid that there is nothing to watch....Solid NFL starter, a rookie took over Center duties and you don't notice him really says something. Come to think of it, I can only recall Samson getting one penalty all year. How about Wright, Taylor, Dorsey, Roth/Holliday? Trade JT and we now have 2 holes to fill but it is what is.. And "No" Ronnie doesn't deserve the Keyshawn Treatment.."Hey look we drafted Jarret from USC we are going to be good friends..." That has to be one of the most "classic" Draft moments...EVER...:clown:
Hey Ronnie, when did you get off of the IR? Come on over here and meet your new roomate Darren McFadden....
I tell u, this really depends on Ronnie's status. If he is a no go . . . McFadden is a no brainer. With what Peterson was doing in Minny . . . I think after the amazing combine McFadden is likely to put up, plus he isn't nearly as injury prone . . . I could see several teams salivating over him. It really all depends. Miami may have to take a little less, but it would take 2 #1's no matter what . . . plus more . . . its alot, but McFadden is a special player. If Ronnie is deemed healthy, and we don't get any offers for a trade . . . its real tough to figure what we are going to do. I still have faith in Solai, and Rod Wright is a natural DT . . . Solai is a protypical NT, and he has TONS of talent, he just needs work . . . I would much rather invest in a DE than a DT, and tho Dorsey hasn't truly impressed me this year . . . he has some intangibles that raise his stock . . . he is a born leader, and would really be a great player in this league. Don't be undersold on QB either . . . if Beck doesn't improve and show sighns and we dont win, there is a good chance we dump Cameron, and the new coach may fall in love with Matt Ryan . . . Ryan looks like a FANTASTIC pro QB prospect, he has everything u want. I mean its just really up in the air right now, I mean how come Joe Thomas couldn't be in this draft . . . would be perfect.
I think Jake Long is a top LT prospect. Maybe not on Joe Thomas caliber but I also recall Robert Gallery and Mike Williams being elite prospects LT prospects. McFadden is a nice prospect and RB is the easiest position to adapt to in the NFL from college. Though it's a waste of a pick. I've seen Tomlinson listed in this thread a few times. Though how good were the Chargers before Brees had his beakout season? How good are they this year with a struggling Rivers? The mentioned Adrian Peterson is great but how good are the Vikings without a Qb? I'm not saying draft a Qb, though if the hopefully new front office is not sold on John Beck it can't be ruled out. Watching last years draft and the Dolphins come off as this arrogant organization by passing up a no-brainer to be "bold," gives me little hope. This is no endorsement of Quinn nor am I criticizing Ginn because we don't know on either of them yet. Lorenzo Booker can't get on the field. It maybe nit-picking but if a 1st day pick can't touch the ball on an 0-11 team, i've got doubts. The defense is old the offense lacks play-makers. Though from what we saw of him this year Ronnie Brown is the only play-maker the team has offensively. Has McFadden look great? Yes, so did Ki-Jana Carter. The defense is old as dirt and bringing in a guy who can play right away like I believe Dorsey can will give them some youth on the d-line. Will he ever have the potential to be on a Sportscenter highlight reel like McFadden? No, but that's not what defensive tackles do. Albert Haynesworth makes the Titans defense go and I think Dorsey can help the Dolphins defense more than McFadden could help the offense. Plus I don't think running backs have any value in the 1st.
We will see whether or not Ted Ginn is a playmaker, IMO, he is, he looks faster now then he did earlier, but outside of Ronnie we have a dirth of consistent threats. McFadden could change all of that, and of #1's RB's have the most consistent success in the NFL, though I personally hope that we can trade the pick. And alot depends on if we trade Jason Taylor, if we do, it's Chris Long for us IMO, if we don't we can take Dorsey, or "hope" we can snag a pass rusher from "somewhere"....
The "defensive tackles bust more when they are drafted high" argument is bunk. I did a quick study on this and posted it on Finheaven, doing it again is redundant. Defensive tackle bust at about the same rate as anyone else. Every position in the draft is a crap shoot. Drafting McFadden would be a MASSIVE blunder in my opinion. We have a franchise running back. Running backs can be found AND we already have a very good runner. We've drafted offense to the exclusion of the defense for YEARS. Anyone ever wonder why we are in the position we are in on defense? Well, we ignored that side of the ball basically since Wanny took over. If Dorsey is close we pick him, it's simple. I don't see McFadden as the clear cut #1 pick. We still have bowls, combines and personal work outs to see. Ignoring the defense AGAIN would be a disaster. I'm always a guy that says "pick BPA" but if you have a couple of guys that are close, you pick for NEED. We don't need a running back, we do need a defensive tackle, an edge rusher, a middle linebacker, and a corner. I'm all about trading the pick but you don't just make a trade partner magically appear, someone has to be interested in giving up the King's ransom required to get the #1 pick.
Number one running backs have the most success in the NFL because lots of RBs have success in the NFL. Its such an easy position to fill that there isn't any need to spend the first overall pick or first overall money on a running back no matter how good he is. Give me a mid-round RB any day, he'll do nearly as well and won't cost as much in the draft or cap space. Few of the top teams in the league have elite backs right now, most are relying on committees. I'm not saying a good RB isn't important, but finding one is easier than it used to be.
McFadden could give the Dolphins a potential playmaker at RB. Though isn't Ronnie already a playmaker? I think Dorsey is the best player in the draft. McFadden is the "sexier" name. If the team goes 0-16 it's hard to justify taking a RB. Though if new management is brought in they've got no allegiance to current players and anything could happen. Ginn has looked better but that's going to be a highly scrutinized pick if he doesn't turn into a star.
what about a QB has anyone given thought to the idea that a QB (Brohm) maybe the pick? I understand we have beck,however if grading the draft eligible players the decision is Brohm is the best player AND better then beck shouldnt he be the pick?
The idea of looking at the history of DT's drafted with the #1 pick that made the HOF as a predictor of success is silly. A team should draft by looking at the players actualy in the draft, not players drafted before. A TE has never gone #1 overall, but if that is the BPA and a team has a need and the #1 pick, you draft him #1 overall. In the last 10 years, 8 QBs and 2 DE have been drafted. This doesn’t mean that if the Phins wind up with the #1 overall that there is an 80% chance that they will draft a QB. If Beck dies (god forbid) tomorrow there is a 99% chance that the Dolphins draft a QB though and it has nothing to do with draft history. There are 25 modern era FB/RB in the hall of fame. There are 25 modern era DT/DE in the hall of fame. A running back is not more likely to be a HOF player. Dorsey can play DT or DE and let us really run a hybrid. Dorsey draws double teams most plays even when playing hurt. That is huge. When healthy he was beating triple teams regularly. No other player offers more value than he does for the Dolphins. Really, the only argument I can see for Mcfadden is if the Niners have just a slightly better record than the Phins. I really don’t want to see him on the Pats. Then again, I really don’t want to see Dorsey on the Pats either.
just b/c we did INVEST in offense donest mean we were successful. look how crappy our team has been for the last 4-5 yrs on offense especially now. we are no where NEARRR being a stable offensive threat.
that is just like us drafting McFaddon when we already have Brown. if Beck keeps up playing the way he is, we wouldnt need to draft a QB for a long time.
Brother Jeff. I think that we may have to look at Defense whether that is Dorsey or not. If JT is traded, then we will need to look at a replacement for him whether it's through the draft or Allen from KC through FA. I just think that Defense needs to be addressed with a position and player that will have an Immediate impact on this team. If Brown is going to have set backs, then McFadden could be a possibility for us, or our AFC East opponents. The other scenario you bring up is trading down which as we have discussed I am for. However finding a trade down partner may not be easy, unless some team has a man crush on McFadden, and is not in the AFC East.
We shouldn't overlook Jake Long. If - for some reason or the other - the FO doesn't like Dorsey/Chris Long or decides to trade down, Jake Long becomes a very real possibility. He would allow the Dolphins to get rid of Shelton who is quite easily the weak spot on an otherwise solid line (and an expensive one, too) by moving Carey back to the right side where he played on a pro bowl level two years back. Not that Carey isn't playing well on the left; he's just not the kind of dominating player there that he could be on the other side. I can see some people argue that we don't need o-line help because the unit is one of the few bright spots in this ugly season. I agree - it is. But keep in mind that a lot of people thought the same after the 2005 season. If you got the chance to draft a franchise LT (assuming the FO sees one in Jake), you do it. I'm not saying that it's a lock or anything (Dorsey seems like the man right now), but we shouldn't rule out Jake either.
Completely agree. And like I said before, there are SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO many running backs, GOOD RUNNING BACKS, entering the draft this spring; they are bound to slip to the 2nd round. From Jonathan Stewart, to Ray Rice, to Slaton, to Kevin Smith. I mean, come on. We just drafted a running back in the first round 3 seasons ago. He had a breakout season this year untill his injury, which isn't even a major torn ligament like McGahee's or Culpepper's [they had tri ligament tears, Ronnie has an ACL]. NFLDraftCountdown.com's Scott Wright has McFadden falling to #5. Chris Long as the #2 pick overall, and has us choosing Dorsey #1 overall. I would like either Dorsey, Chris or a trade down of multiple picks.
BEST PLAYER AVAILABLE. I don't care who it is determined to be.....take him. IF an oppritunity to trade down comes along, take it....but don't count on it. Forget about who is already on the roster and concentrate ONLY on finding the player who in our system will be the most effective player in the LONG TERM. I don't know who the best player will be, hopefully, that player will also fill a need, but if they don't, so be it. do we draft mcFadden although we already have Ronnie? Sure. draft Brohm or Ryan although we already like Beck? I would. Don't screw around with this pick trying to fill a need and pass on a better player. Use all the other picks to fill needs if you have to, but with that first pick, get the best football player.
Boomer, read the Quentin Moses thread. I believe it's on the bottom of page 1, or more likely the middle of page 2. You'll, uh... you'll have plenty to write about.
I don't think I can bear to, De. If it's nonsense about Dorsey by ill informed people, then I may slit my own throat.
He isn't. Being one of the most dominating DTs in recent years doesn't make him any special. McFadden, on the other hand, is really, really special. He's running with the ball! How often did you see Dorsey run the ball? That's right: never! What's so special about a fat guy who just stands around looking silly and poking people in the chest? Heck, I could do that if I ate ten burgers a day. We really need a special player. Like McFadden. Or Eddie Moore!
I take it this is sarcasm. If it is, let me commend you on some quality!! If it isn't...................
Hahahahaha. Brilliant. I don't get how people who think a DT who can beat triple-teams on the way to the QB isn't anything special.
Cmon Boom, everybody knows that Dorsey isnt worthy of a top 25 pick LOL.. J/k....good to see you here bro...
