That's exactly what it is, people trying everything they can to feel vindicated. Get over it, Mike Wallace is a good thing.
thanks for taking the time to do that stuff bro. if you look at the safety on two of those plays, because his corner has turned and started to run, you could tell he either sh)( his pants and panicked and started to run anyways, or his cue to start running deep to help him is when his corner turns his back to the los and runs..basically on both plays you see panick by not one, but two players that's pretty freakin funny...end of debate if you ask me...space..in a game of inches.
2nd pic...look real close.. now here's a little story about the day cromartie and his safety had to cover mike Wallace. ''I pooped my pants, so I just started running, I didn't care, my friend tried to come over and help me, but I just wanted to get to the locker room. '' 5th pic..look real close again. '' so I came back out after cleaning up, and DAMN IT..HE made me do it again''
either way..the guy seems like a good teammate, with his skills, and a disciplined coach like Philbin, that freaky speed receiver might become a better route runner, he probably wont live up to the contract, but if he can help our team win a championship , it'll be worth it.
he does seem to have just enough of that swagger/confidence that goes with a winning attitude, without being a complete and total diva. The only regrets I have about his signing is we still don't have a big receiver we can count on for red zone type jump balls. Then again, Marino had Duper and Clayton and seemed to manage with them!
That's true. I was using the term "cover" loosely. But you are making my point -- there is no aspect of that coverage that is specific to or tailored to Wallace. As Stringer said, it would be the exact same coverage if it was Hellen Keller instead of Wallace. Wallace had absolutely no impact on that play.
They are playing zone. They are waiting for whatever receiver enters their zone. That could be the Dolphins Mike Wallace or 60 Minutes' Mike Wallace being wheeled in his coffin.
How was the coverage geared toward Wallace? There were 3 receivers bunched together on his side of the field. And it was the ILB that picked him up (again, using that term loosely).
This is funny. The CB on Hartline is lined up giving a bigger cushion than Cromartie is on Wallace. Reed is just playing centerfield -- he is lined up directly across from the center. Yes, Cromartie played Wallace poorly. He seemed to lack confidence in his ability to change direction -- the tv commentators repeatedly pointed out that he seemed to be moving gingerly. In the second sequence Reed is again just playing centerfield. He's aligned directly across from the center. There is no indication that the defense is doing anything special to defend Wallace.
I thought the conversation was about how real elite speed in this type of package can affect the mentality of a corner or safety to adjust their alignment or compensate their position out of fear that is condusive to creating space for others?
I have no problem with Wallace. He's overpaid but so are a lot of guys. That happens in FA. But grade him based on what he does -- catches, yards and TDs etc and not on the fiction that his 5 yard curl on one side of the field is what caused a TD on a quick slant on the other side of the field. That's just nonsense.
Honestly, I feel like this has entered the Twilight Zone. I have no idea how you are seeing that you say you are seeing. On both sequences Hartline's guy lined further back than Wallace's guy. On both sequences, Reed lined up in the center, directly across from the center. Cromartie was playing with a hip injury and was clearly moving gingerly and having trouble swiveling his hips. That's about it.
The game doesn't stop at the end of your last sentence..it's very obvious both the corner and the safety were afraid that they were gonna get beat deep, hence the bail out by the corner and the complete lack of regard for his initial responsibility by the safety... I can assure you corners everywhere would be laughing their *** off at cromartie on those two examples, and they don't want a safety covering for him in such desperate fashion.
Fineas. Ok forget the alignment part of this conversation, how bout we discuss how Wallace creates space for others with his threat of elite speed?? You do see that in those pics right?
Cromartie was playing with a bad hip -- the recurrence of an old injury that he aggravated against Baltimore. He barely practiced before the Dolphin game because of it and it was uncertain as to whether he would even be able to play. He himself has said that it affects his explosiveness and ability to open his hips and change direction. The commentators mentioned how gingerly he was moving half a dozen times during the telecast. The Jets have struggled to prevent the big play, which is why they picked up Ed Reed after he was cut by the NFL's worst team and immediately put him in the starting lineup. Can we stop pretending that the way Cromartie played him was anything close to typical?
That they are playing to not let Wallace get behind the defense, even though the safety is letting 2 receivers run up the seem to cover Wallace on the sideline.
No, I do not see that. At all. I see the S in the center reacting to Clay running up they seam in pic 2 and pretty much the same thing ( but can't tell from the pic if it is Clay or someone else) in pic 5.
How is the safety letting receivers run up the seam? Looks to me like his is reacting to and looking right at those guys. He only seems to run toward Wallace when the pass is thrown to him.
If you look at the safety in both pics his move is lateral to behind lateral, clay in the 2nd pic is way too far up the field for him to be making a lateral move to cover clay in that spot..in the 2nd he sees that his corner has flipped his hips and is in an outright sprint to the endzone so he's gonna try to cover for him, once again an initial lateral move in that direction... in both cromartie sh&$ his pants..
If Wallace and Hartline went in motion, and switched sides, the defense isn't changing. The Jets aren't calling their defense based on Mike Wallace, Brian Hartline, or any other Miami WR. Their defense is based on what they want to do. Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk
In pic 2 he is clearly stepping up field while clay is taking his route into the middle of the field. All while the ball is being thrown to the opposite hash.
You can't possibly know that from the still pics. He does not appear to be looking at Wallace -- he appears to be looking at Clay.
Again, you can't say that from the still pics. I don't see it that way at all. I see a deep S watching the Clay running up the seam toward him and reacting to that. That is what he is supposed to do.
You can if you look at his hip turn...unless he's playing with zero technique. He is in no position to cover clay. Also why not cheat towards Mathews if Tannehill is looking at Hartline (left hash) the whole play?
I'd have to say that it might not be just because of Wallace that a 5 yard curl on the opposite side of the field turned into a TD. But i will say that finally having a player like Wallace on the oppposite side of the field is surely helping it happen. When the defense is playing an over the top zone like that, and with that cushion the Cb's are giving gives a player like Wallace a chance to MAKE the center fielder come his way. Not every joe schmoe Wr is going to get that respect just because he has speed. Is he overpaid? So far its an easy answer but I'm glad he's here.
That's not how I see it. He certainly is in no position to cover Wallace. Wallace is already stopping at the 32. The S is not running toward him at all.
WADR you sound very confused. Defenses don't know if Wallace is going to run a 5 yd curl, a post or a post corner. In fact, our offense calls for receivers to read the coverage and adjust their routes accordingly. Wallace is curling up bc the Jets are taking away the deep route, Harrtline is running to the open spot in the zone. Reed appears to be playing deep middle but at every instance he is rotating over Wallace at the snap. I know you don't have the all 22 camera angle so you're very much in the dark as to what's going on in the secondary, I'd respectfully suggest that you stop arguing and listen instead.
No. The defense is giving Hartline a bigger cushion than they are giving Wallace. On that Hartline TD they are playing the same zone they'd be playing with any set of WRs. The short middle zones are covered by the LBs and the deeper zones covered by the safeties. Whoever runs into those zones will be picked up. There is no special Wallace effect.
Cromartie is playing zone there. So is Reed. They are playing their zone based on the formation, not the players in the formation. Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk
Yes, the defense is doing what it planned to do regardless of who the WRs are. Reed is not rotating over Wallace at all. He is on the other side of the field on that TD and retreats on the snap even though Wallace is 20+ yards away and breaking off his route. That pass was thrown probably about 1-1.5 seconds after the snap and nothing the defense did regarding Wallace played any role whatsoever in that TD.
I'm assuming here, but I'm betting the safety made his break before Wallace broke off his route. Either way we'll have to agree to disagree we're seeing 2 different things. Now I'm not in the camp to apologize for Wallace. I've been plenty critical of his play this year but I do think he is keeping the top of secondaries honest and I do think those are things we have to consider when doing an overall evaluation of Wallace. There are things that absolutely drive me crazy about Wallace, he doesn't come back to the ball, won't go up and fight for a ball, and will run routes a yard short of the first down markers. But I do feel in my opinion, that he helps open up the passing game in numbers that aren't measurable.
Lol thank you Cpt Obvious. What's next, thy are wearing Jets' uniforms? It's not the play call that's telling, it's HOW they play the coverage.
The safeties are reacting to cromartie sh&$ing his pants, flipping his hips, and running like Forrest Gump to the endzone.. Loll lol.
At this point I really don't care what the safety is doing, because I'm seriously crying looking at cromartie in those stills.. Can we all just have a laugh at his expense, lol, that mother grabber has no clue wtf is going on...I AM Ruuunnning!!!!lol
Dude, what part of Reed doesn't know what's going to happen post snap do you not understand? Obviously he's going to react to what happens post snap whether it be the quick drop and throw, the lack of a vertical threat to the wide side etc, but if he had rotated towards Hartline instead of towards Wallace he would have been in a much better position to make the tackle and prevent the TD. But he rolled toward the middle despite his responsibility being deep half and he paid for it. You say that's not Wallace, OK. Maybe it was Sims he was worried about.
They are playing the coverage the way you play zone coverage. You stay in your zone and cover the receivers who enter it, no matter who they are.
