Well, to me, if that did happen I suspect DefCord's sphincters would snap shut at the thought of MMoore going deep accurately to Wallace THill has taken an absolute pounding this year and has ridden that out. What kind of cheeses me off is "We" all knew the OL was struggling badly and the staff made no changes, Clabo was benched for one game and the craziness happened and he was right back into games as a Starter He's played better, but I thought he was going to get THill killed TBH, John Jerry is very very replaceable, he's started every game and per PFF he is just subpar in both run and pass blocking...AND..even fans can see it out on the field
I think Tannehill is the most dissected QB in the entire league. The trend that has developed among the fanbase and local media has permeated into the national media. The criticism at times in non-sensical but it could be a sign of the expectations that are being placed on him. I think it's obvious that there has been significant improvement and that his current level is good enough to consistently make the playoffs with a slightly better team. Having said this, I think he's a player that can still improve significantly to the point where he's a true elite player (whatever that exactly means).
Tannehill now has a better qb rating than Andrew Luck, not only this season, but for their entire careers.
Here is food for thought: Through 12 games, he has surpassed what he did in 16 games as a Rook Without -Reggie Bush --0- consistency from the running game With A demonstrable worse offensive line To put that into perspective, Bush nearly hit 1k yds, Miller had 250 yds Thomas had 325 yds This yr, Miller has 550 yds or so, Thomas had 279 yds Basically, at this point in time, the offense has "lost" 800 yds rushing or more Would have to go back and look at game by game to be really accurate on it, basically Tannehill has had his running game removed, and his offensive line grow worse. The usual pattern is "establish running game to help young Qb develop"..heh, not in Miami..
Padre, do you know the rbs numbers through 12 games last season? kingmotion, I lived across the street from the guy in you avatar when I was in college haha
No, and that is the sort of stat stuff I'm not a fan of, do recall Bush had a couple of games early in the year where he dominated though
I feel like it's relevant if we're comparing the support Tannehill is getting from the running game if were are comparing his stats through 12 games this year to the 16 (or 15 if you don't count the Jets game he missed nearly all of) he played last year
Zero running game, the worst offensive line in the league, a bad coordinator, more drama than a soap opera. A "#1 receiver" who seemingly doesn't give flying **** half the time...and he has better numbers than 3 of the "big 4/next generation". Yup, he's Jay Fiedler re-dux. He's a caretaker. Throws a horrible deep ball. He's too mechanical. He is not the future. We need to look at a quarterback in the draft. He's on a developmental curve that is beyond where we should expect him to be yet, someone on this board will always find something wrong with him.
To do that properly one would have to show a matrix between THill's Qb play and performance in the running game over similar spans of time Ain't no one got time for that brother
Dan Marino says "hi"! Hehe.. While I agree the stats are there, and he has made some strides, he still has a ways to go. He makes at least 3 plays a game that make you say wtf? His long ball is wildly inconsistent and he's locked in on one receiver far too often in my opinion. Time is what he needs, I understand, but glad to see he's trending upward.
Tony Romo, RGIII, Eli Manning, Geno Smith, and Colin Kaepernick all disagree about being dissected mi re than any other QB. Tannehill has a cakewalk compared to those guys. I know we think we're terrible, but were having the same convos that the fanbases of those QB's are having or have had. The Tannehill arguments don't even come close to comparing to Jay Cutler arguments here in Chicago.
Or maybe they'd say that his fumbles will go up or his pocket presence would drop, which is why Tannehill's total QB rating has dropped from a 50.4 in 2012 to a 45.9. They could also point out that we're the only team in the NFL yet to score 28 points in a game, or they could say that Tannehill's 38.4% completion percentage on 3rd down is the reason we can't score consistently. In fact, the "haters" have ample statistics to show that Tannehill has flatlined despite building an entire offense around him. The difference, of course, is that when the "haters" deliver statistics, all they hear is "Nuh-uh, Tannehill is the best ever." The facts mean nothing to those wearing aqua-colored goggles.
I think that's the big key here. He's basically carrying this team on his back. He is the offense, it runs through him. Pretty impressive to me for a second year player, with not alot of big time college experience at QB.
One thing on the touch passes.... to be honest, Ive seen him make some throws that needed an incredible amount of touch. There was one that he threw to Charles Clay against the Jets where he dropped a pass right over the LB to Clay about maybe ten yards from the LOS, right in the middle of the field. When our local game film guy posts our Tannehill scouting report, Ill make sure to note which pass Im talking about. Ive seen Tannehill miss some passes, yes, but....to hear some people speak, youd think they were Gino Smith bad. I cant really remember one pass that I just went, omg, wtf was that?
Agreed. That was a incredible throw and showed wonderful touch on that pass to Clay. That's something he doesn't naturally have the feel for. But I think he's improving that. But seriously you can't remember one pass this season that was dreadful?
I watched the game last night, and Seattle runs the read option a TON. One of the largest reasons they can do this, is because of Marshawn Lynch. Marhsawn Lynch, IMO, is the single biggest reason Russel Wilson is having so much success. Seattle uses Russel Wilson so much more as a regular part of their running attack. In some ways, I think its an unfair comparison between RW and RT. I will say this. RW, RT, and Luck are great individuals. I had seen RT, and Luck speak before, but I was extremely impressed with Russel Wilson. That is a QB you build around, even if he never becomes elite, which, I see him becoming very easily. He said a few things last night that I think Ryan Tannehill should listen to. RW said he wants to be consistently dominant. Thats what I want Ryan Tannehill to want to be. And, I believe thats what he wants. Consistently dominant.
He threw a gorgeous swing pass that required a ton of touch to Miller against the Panthers. His TD to Sims against ATL is another great touch pass.
Two things: -what is the avg third down and distance he is not hitting on, this is where the lack of a running game comes back to haunt -his pressured or sacked number on third downs and how does that compare to the rest of NFL Qb's? TQBR is a bull**** BSPN metric they are pimping on the gullible.
Not, like, Cleo Lemon awful. I mean, come one, threw the years we have seen some passes where we all were like, dudes got no business being a QB. Remember some of the passes Ray Lucas would throw? Yeh, he's missed some passes. Every QB does. Im talking about the head scratching ones though.
It's more his timing than his touch, especially down the field and out to the sideline when the Rb is moving away from him but more or less parallel to the los Everytime on that throw...back shoulder and behind the Rb, he has to LEAD the Rb, he has to LEAD the Wr deep down the field, he's more of a spot thrower
I think what we are all talking about....is some of the "polish" the nuances that great QBs have. Right now Tannehill is still in that, laying the groundwork stage, but not yet at the finish work stage. When you have a position like the QB, which is so critical to the long term success of a franchise, its important to look at where he is at, relative to his body of work. For a young QB, with what he has around him, I believe Ryan Tannehill has proven that he deserves to get to the finishing stage. If you look at his numbers that are important across the board, he has markedly improved. TD passes. Completion percentage. Yards thrown. His Ints are low enough that you can look at each one individually and see if they were poor throws, poor decisions, or statistical Ints (the multi tipped passes, getting crushed while throwing, or hail marry end of half or game passes). If you look at the Ints that were poor throws or poor decisions, those are actually very low. He has proven the ability to come from behind. He has also shown flashes or flat out elite QB play, plays where you just drop your jaw at. More then that, he has shown he has the aptitude and the attitude to be a franchise QB. Its all there, we have the ability to look at every single one of his passes this year. (Which , can I suggest we make a sticky of. It would be great to have them all in one place, so we can all look at throw by throw very easily.)
I think this is true. He has a pre-determimed clock in his head that tells him when to throw. It's why his rapport with Wallace is so bad IMO. Wallace is ahead of that timing...to no fault of him. Tannehill has to see it quicker. The Hartline throw was a great example. He was open early off the snap, but threw it much too late. Tanehill's touch isn't crap, it's just like everything else in his game - inconsistent. For every nice Lamar Miller swing pass, I can refer to his horrible touch throw to Clay vs Jets on 4th and goal, or over the middle in the redzone vs Carolina to Clay, or the INT in the endzone attempt to Hartline vs Buffalo. I think he has touch, but he's very poor and inconsistent adjusting mid-play to the speed/timing.
AFAIK, at least 4 of his int's are the tipped pass/hail mary variety What is more encouraging is his completion percentage, generally speaking that is a static metric that rarely improves by much, see Sanchez, Mark.
There are a few reasons this team gets so little RAC, and this is one of them. Tannehill isn't too good at leading his receivers into space or hitting them as they move downfield. He has particular trouble with guys down the seam or over the top down the middle, imo. But that's not entirely his fault: Sherman's offense is heavy on comebacks and routes that are stationary/squared up to the QB. It makes for a higher comp% but reduces big play potential. As does all the out-breaking stuff on the sidelines when guys just can't turn upfield. Tannehill has way more experience/reps with these types of throws having played in Sherman's system since college and with his only two-year WR target being Brian Hartline. Great QBs spark big plays out of these quick sit-down routes by putting the ball on a certain shoulder or leading the receiver to where the RAC yardage will be (their throws turn the WRs in the right direction). Tannehill will get there, imo. This week was a great start. Really need to see Wallace crank up his RAC game now with consistency, cause he's definitely capable.
You've chosen to do a year over year stat comparison after one of Tannehill's best statistical games of the season, helped greatly by Brian Hartline actually taking a slant pass to the house without doing his usual fall down at the first sign of contact (a slight modern miracle) and Mike Wallace taking an out, spinning out of a tackle and going in for about a 30 yd TD. There are always outside factors- Hartline and Wallace did their part and then some on those TDs, then again Tannehill's lousy throw to Marlon Moore was caused in part iirc by the OL not giving him enough time to throw. It's nice to see Tannehill have a good game, and he is playing pretty well, especially in light of how bad the OL has been for most of this year. But seriously, if you really watch the games- the inconsistency, the poor deep balls, the questionable timing and anticipation of his passes, the 4th qtr deficiencies, not using his running ability all that well for most of the year- my intent isn't to bash him, I think that he is a good and might be a very good QB. But if I'm reading this right we're talking about whether or not he will turn into a FRANCHISE QB. At this point I don't think that it's a terrible stretch to use Chad Henne as a comparison- were any of us not impressed with some of Chad's games in his first couple of years as a starter? Did he not flash big time ability that some projected into "franchise" ability, or at least very solid starter NFL ability? But he never was consistent. He never really put it all together. Bad game last night aside, Drew Brees is a maestro. Ditto Manning, Brady and Rogers. Using Rogers as a template, do I think that Tannehill will ever become a Aaron Rogers type QB, on that level? No. He doesn't have the consistency, grasp of the game, control of the game, ability to make 4th qtr comebacks a la the elite QBs and the up and comers Luck and Wilson. His lack of anticipation and leading receivers on deep and intermediate passes is huge. I like Ryan Tannehill as a QB. I think that he can be a darned good QB. I think that he'll be better as the OL solidifies and the running game improves. But he is not the QB that I'd want in the clutch or to lead a 4th qtr come back, he's just not that guy. He's closer to Chad Henne than Aaron Rodgers, that's how I see it. But I remain hopeful that he'll improve and I can see him being as good or better than Joe Flacco- granted I'm not a big Flacco fan, but he did lead his team to a Super Bowl victory. Tannehill will be a solid QB imo, but I just don't see in him a "sky's the limit" scenario.
I disagree. Tannehill is good at leading his receivers inside 20 yards. His issue that doesn't help YAC is lack of anticipating the routes. Even on those come backs he waits until the guy is open before throwing it, so by time the ball arrives the CB is already on top of the WR again. He has to get better with this to make the next step. He made a few throws the past couple weeks where he showed good anticipation. This is why I'm waiting until year there. To see if he can slow everything down and start doing that.
Hmm, wow, could not disagree with you more Jim1. What I'm seeing a decent Qb while in the pocket who is basically carrying the team offensively, and I'm seeing a upper echelon Qb once he breaks the pocket and begins using his legs to threaten Defenses. We've been through the deep ball problems, every Qb has flaws, otherwise he has the intangibles to be good for a long time as most importantly, he has the balls to try to make plays happen especially in the end zone, that is the area Chad Henne just never could turn the corner on while he was here. To put that into context, aside from yards, Tannehill has surpassed Henne's best season in Miami Henne's "best" yr in Miami: 3,301 yds 15 Td's 19 int 61% completions 490 attempts 220 ypg That was in 16 starts and in his third yr as a starter
I am so tired of wannabe experts its ridiculous. Noone talks opinions, its all facts, facts determined by ones opinion. Chad Henne? Really? RT is carrying this offense, Henne never did, and RT is going it w 1 3/4 yr of exp off 19 starts in college. Expectations are wild on this board at times. I have no idea what RT ceiling will end up being or if he reaches it, but the amt of things on RT's plate is tremendous. Wilson and luck have veteran help, with vet leaders, they are not the teams sole leader RT is on offense. RT has shown the it factor IMHO, not expecting growing pains was and is foolish. Can't allow panic desparation cloud judgement.
Im waiting on my opinion on whether Ryan can be an elite QB or not. But I agree, he's FAR better then Henne. Sometimes I see some Henne like plays, but he's just plain better.
An upper echelon QB when he breaks the pocket and threatens defenses with his legs? At a clip of less than 14 yards rushing per game and 1 TD rushing on the year? Did I miss the littany of accurate deep throws when he's been rolling out? I've been clamoring for him to roll out and run more, haven't seen nearly enough of it. He had a TD rolling out to Wallace against Carolina, but that was hardly a great throw. He's still not a great 4th qtr QB, still has problems with accuracy (especially deep balls which are chronically underthrown), timing his throws and using the anticipation that should come with well timed throws. Tannehill statistically eclipsed Henne's best year down here- that would be more relevant imo if Henne was more than a journeyman QB. 4th qtr efficiency- Tannehill ranks 15th- in the AFC. Ahead of Case Keenum, the immortal Geno Smith, Terrell Pryor and Jason Campbell. http://scores.nbcsports.msnbc.com/fb/leaders.asp?range=AFC&type=Passing&rank=110&year= Imo there is somewhat of a desire from some posters to sweep concerning issues under the carpet in the name of labeling our team or certain players as we wish- Dolphins are 3-0 and are major contenders, we're undefeated and the OL struggles just don't matter because, hey, we're 3-0. Look at the Tannehill comments- earlier this year he's the chosen one, as of a few weeks ago he sucks and should be replaced, looks now like he may be the chosen one again, etc. etc. Classic buy high, sell low. Tannehill has gaps in his game. I have no idea whatsoever as to what you're talking about as per him as an upper echelon outside of the pocket QB. He has accuracy issues. He has timing and deep ball issues. He has throwing deep issues. Imo he doesn't run enough or roll out enough, that might be a coaching issue as well. He has 4th qtr efficiency and come from behind issues, ie clutch performance issues. Tannehill is a good QB, but imo he's far from a great QB. Will he be great? Who knows, but I think that his ceiling is "very good", not "great". I hope that he proves me wrong.
I stand by what I've seen, we shall see who is correct in their assessment, and who is not. "4th qtr Qb efficiency" Oh, okay, this with no running game Now that the Henne shibboleth has been put to bed, time for something else?
But...hes a second year QB. Of course hes far from great. Historically, how many second year QB's are great? As far as come from behind issues.....I dont think you can say that. There were 4th qtrs this year where he was the only one we even sniffed the potential to win.
