1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

After 2 Years, Jason Allen...

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Finsavior, Dec 22, 2007.

Tags:
  1. Finsavior

    Finsavior New Member

    37
    0
    0
    Nov 28, 2007
    Mexico
    This is just a thread to grade and rank Jason Allen, do you think that he was a bust, a great player or a good pick at #16?, has he lived up your expectations?

    I don't know what to say, since this year I haven't seen the Dolphins' games, last week's game was the first one that I saw due to I wasn't at home all season...

    Please give me the updates...

    THANKS!
     
  2. Dolphinsfan69

    Dolphinsfan69 Member

    328
    92
    0
    Nov 26, 2007
    Not worth #16 but has shown signs at times. Give him time.
     
  3. MelbournePhin

    MelbournePhin New Member

    3,253
    419
    0
    Nov 30, 2007
    melbourne,fl
    i still think he needs one more year for us to fairly evaluate him.
     
  4. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

    99,377
    37,301
    0
    Nov 22, 2007
    inching to 100k posts
    Hard to tell, next season we will know one way or another if he can stick around for us or not.

    Lot of times a young player will rest on their laurels and not study as hard the year after they make their mark in the NFL, it took almost being cut to get Allen to perform this season, next year who knows?
     
  5. Dtronic

    Dtronic Season Tickets Sec. 150

    431
    63
    0
    Dec 7, 2007
    Cape Coral FL
    He has stepped up his play, but when you go up from terrible, good looks great. He wasn't worth a #16 pick. If anyone can light a fire under it's *** it's Tuna.
     
  6. Vendigo

    Vendigo German Gigolo Club Member

    7,723
    5,683
    113
    Nov 30, 2007

    I don't think that work ethic is the problem with Jason. In fact, he works very hard but seems to be lacking the intellectual capacity to translate it into game time situations. Being an athletical freak makes for a superb college career but it's not enough for the NFL. Allen's problems come from not being able to anticipate plays and grasping complex schemes; if things are not going according to plan (aka someone botches his coverage, there's a play action, missmatches etc) he's a deer in the headlights. In a way, Jason is the archetypical Saban player: A guy who needs someone to tell him "here's what you do and when and where" - problem is that this works in college but not in the NFL where the playbook is so much more complex.

    Jason might eventually become a solid player if they manage to find a role he's comfortable in (SS seems like the best bet) but I highly doubt that he will ever be more than that. Does that make him a bust at #16? Kinda. But it's not his fault; if anything it's Saban's fault for drafting him for a system Jason had no business playing in. That cost him almost two years right there.
     
    inFINSible likes this.
  7. GISH

    GISH ~mUST wARN oTHERS~

    19,893
    9,750
    113
    Nov 23, 2007
    Over Yonder
    Antonio Cromartie would have been the best choice at #16. He is now the best CB in the NFL. He was #18. We had our chance. But Allen is only playing like a 2nd or 3rd rounder at this point, he could improve.
     
  8. inFINSible

    inFINSible Bad ministrator

    1,989
    918
    113
    Nov 26, 2007
    Him and Worrell were a good tandem. Worrell was making all the coverage calls and Jason was just playing. That's when Allen was playing his best. That's the key going forward. Jason needs to be teamed with another safety who does all the thinking, while he just concentrates on getting to the football.
     
  9. FinsAreLife

    FinsAreLife Well-Known Member

    2,824
    762
    113
    Dec 7, 2007
    he hasnt proven hes been worth the #16 pick yet but there is still a possibility for it. We'll see and be able to tell more at the end of next season.
     
  10. KB21

    KB21 Almost Never Wrong Club Member

    24,029
    40,478
    113
    Dec 6, 2007
    Two years isn't enough time to get a fair evaluation of any rookie. Jason Allen's play has really improved this year, and I think a lot of that has to do with the fact that once they moved him back to safety, he finally got comfortable in that position. Some on here are saying he wasn't worth the 16th pick. Well, the guy had a great college career and was the most athletic defensive back in the draft. The only reason he wasn't getting a first round grade for the entire season is the hip injury. That was the only question about him when he was coming out of Tennessee.

    When he gets to the NFL, first of all he was late to camp because of issues with his contract negotiations. When he got to camp, he was simply too far behind everyone else to make up any meaningful ground. Combine that with the fact that Nick Saban was pushing him to the maximum by switching him between the cornerback position and the safety position. It has taken some time for him to become comfortable back there.

    What the coaches figured out though was that Jason Allen wasn't a guy that would get into the film room and watch a lot of film. That isn't a knock against his work ethic. Everything that I've heard about Jason says that he is a very hard worker and is very well liked within the locker room. Cam Cameron had a sit down with Jason Allen earlier in the season. He basically told Jason that they were putting him and keeping him at safety to give him a chance to get comfortable. Cam laid out his expectations for Jason Allen. Cam basically told him that he wanted Jason to become the best safety on the team, and that he wanted to see Jason doing the things on the field and in the film room to become the best safety on the team. I think Jason Allen really took that to heart, because has reportedly spent a lot more time in the film room, studying his opponents as well as other safeties in the league. As a result, he has become more comfortable at safety, and he has become comfortable enough that he can play both spots.

    I don't like Nick Saban any more than some of you guys, but I don't think he deserves the criticism he gets over his draft picks. His draft picks were actually pretty good. If you are going to criticize Nick Saban for picking Jason Allen with the 16th pick and not taking Antonio Cromartie, then you might as well criticize the new VP of Football Operations that some of you don't seem to think has any flaws. Bill Parcells was part of the trio that made the decision to draft Bobby Carpenter with the 18th pick over Antonio Cromartie, who went 19th, not 18th. The fact is, Antonio Cromartie wasn't a slam dunk pick either, because he was coming off a severe knee injury, and to be quite honest with you, he was as lost as Jason Allen was during his rookie season.
     
  11. PhinFantic

    PhinFantic New Member

    277
    7
    0
    Dec 12, 2007
    New Jersey
    He's better a safety than corner and just needs to react rather than think too much. Right now he just needs consistency at safety, but if they get a new DC which there's a good probability that they will then who knows what will happen. For a #16 pick he is a bust now, but give him more time.
     
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2007
  12. shouright

    shouright Banned

    22,845
    8,861
    0
    Dec 13, 2007
    I think Allen's trajectory is looking very good right now. If he gets as better next year as the average player does in his third year in the league (see Ronnie Brown), I think we have a high-quality starter at safety who may eventually be a Pro-Bowler somewhere between year 4 and 6 if the trajectory he's on now continues.
     
  13. Stitches

    Stitches ThePhin's Biggest Killjoy Luxury Box

    53,148
    31,935
    113
    Nov 23, 2007
    Katy, TX
    Wow, talk about a complete overstatement. Cromartie isn't even top 5.
     
  14. #1dolphinsfan

    #1dolphinsfan New Member

    1,664
    189
    0
    Nov 23, 2007
    I think he is a pretty good player he is aways running to the ball and makes some big hits
     
  15. Marino1384

    Marino1384 Member

    770
    160
    0
    Dec 8, 2007
    Actually i don't even think he's a starter. He plays the nickel but just has a ton of interceptions. He was just another guy until that game wherre he had like 3 picks then all of a sudden everyone thinks he's great,although he has steppped up his game since then.
     
  16. dredd1050

    dredd1050 New Member

    62
    0
    0
    Dec 21, 2007
    He will develop into a starter.
     
  17. FinNasty

    FinNasty Alabama don’t want this... Staff Member Club Member

    24,217
    36,005
    113
    Dec 1, 2007
    You know that Cromartie isnt even a starter on his team? He cant beat out Jammer for a job...
     
  18. finfan1966

    finfan1966 New Member

    61
    0
    0
    Dec 9, 2007
    I think he has played better since given a chance. Thats the problem with Cameron he doesn't always play the guys that give you the best chance to win. I watched Jason's first game as starting safety and the guy looked great! He has two interceptions. However I still think he was a reach pick. Thats the problem with our draft picks in the first round lately there are all reach picks. Ginn was definitely not worth picking at number 9. Thats why I think Mueller will be gone at the end of the year. Another couple of years with Mueller drafting and this team would really be in the tank! One thing I do think Mueller is good at is getting high round picks for trading players but he is not good at picking in the draft. Thank god we have the tuna here now. No more Ginn picks!
     
  19. FanMarino

    FanMarino Season Ticket Holder

    2,906
    718
    0
    Nov 24, 2007
    Hes better than last season. Which wasnt difficult. Hes improved and if he keeps going up the slope of improvement then i ay he may be our next Starting Safety but if he doesnt improve from this season then to me he wasnt worth the pick.
     
  20. MelbournePhin

    MelbournePhin New Member

    3,253
    419
    0
    Nov 30, 2007
    melbourne,fl
    as a nole fan, i wanted cromartie. also wanted boldin. oh well.
     
  21. Stitches

    Stitches ThePhin's Biggest Killjoy Luxury Box

    53,148
    31,935
    113
    Nov 23, 2007
    Katy, TX

    Riiiight, since we weren't before he got here.


    Care to find the drafts that Parcells actually picked the players, and then check out those 1st round picks?
     
  22. FinNasty

    FinNasty Alabama don’t want this... Staff Member Club Member

    24,217
    36,005
    113
    Dec 1, 2007
    He is improving. He has the talent and a high ceiling. He hasnt reached his pick yet... which makes him a bust in some peoples eyes... but that is rediculous.

    Players take TIME to develop. Some come on to the scene and light it up immediately. Others take a few years to develop. Look at Vernon Carey? Damn he looked like a bust his first few years, now he is our best olineman and playing on a pro bowl level...
     
  23. Larry Little

    Larry Little Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    8,621
    2,680
    113
    Dec 16, 2007
    Nashville, TN
    My take on it is that you simply cannot tell when or if the light will go on in a particular player's head. History shows that it doesn't depend upon any one thing... a player's smarts, his ability, his work ethic, etc... any strength a player has can contribute to his becoming a good to great NFL player in spite of whatever weaknesses he may have.

    The only thing that will make "the light bulb go on" for Allen is playing in games. Obviously, practice isn't going to do it. Practice helps, but in Allen's case, it isn't where he shows his stuff.

    I think Jason Allen has turned the corner toward becoming a good NFL safety. I also believe that the main reason for that is because he was finally put on the field and allowed to play. Unfortunately, it took several injuries to force the coaches to put him in the games every down, where he belongs. I think our coaches place far too much emphasis on a player's performance in practice, which is a controlled, subdued environment, as opposed to actual game play, where players can let loose with all of their ability.

    From what I've heard, Jason Allen isn't a good practice player. What makes him such a good player is his natural athleticism and aggression toward the ball. He's a natural play-maker. Often times, that doesn't show up in practice.

    The coaches need to make Allen a permanent fixture on the field, pair him up with Bell next year, and allow those two to grow together and become a great tandem. That's the only way anyone will ever find out whether the guy was ever worth #16.

    I don't care how many correct reads another safety makes in walk-throughs.
     
  24. phinfanuk

    phinfanuk Season Ticket Holder

    1,047
    157
    0
    Dec 19, 2007
    He looks like a long term player for us, I think he's looked good when he's out there, his tackling is good and he looks like he wraps up well from what I've seen.
     
  25. Stitches

    Stitches ThePhin's Biggest Killjoy Luxury Box

    53,148
    31,935
    113
    Nov 23, 2007
    Katy, TX
    I really wouldn't be bothered at all if Bell wasn't resigned this offseason.
     
  26. finfan1966

    finfan1966 New Member

    61
    0
    0
    Dec 9, 2007
    Someone already posted all the Tuna's past draft picks. It was way more impressive than any of the players Mueller has ever picked. Especially his first round picks. Those are the picks you have to get right and Mueller has dropped the ball on that. Thats why we are 1-13. I don't know why everyone is so high on Mueller. The Ginn pick was enough proof for me that this guy doesn't know what he is doing.
     
  27. ChambersWI

    ChambersWI Banned

    399
    21
    0
    Dec 17, 2007
    Harrisburg, PA
    let's just put it this way. He's played well when he gets PT, and has shown he deserves to start, BUT most of the fans will be against him until he becomes a difference maker since most fans were against the pick.

    Oh and Cromartie may be going to the pro bowl, but most (not all) of those INTs were gimmes. He was the only other guy you could've made a case for us taking since everybody else we considered has yet to prove much better than Allen.
     
  28. Stitches

    Stitches ThePhin's Biggest Killjoy Luxury Box

    53,148
    31,935
    113
    Nov 23, 2007
    Katy, TX
    Could you please find me the picks that Bill picked? I'm just curious is all.
     
  29. finfan1966

    finfan1966 New Member

    61
    0
    0
    Dec 9, 2007
    I think they are under the thread The big tuna knows how to draft and rebuild. Something like that and the person lists all of Parcells draft picks even going back to New England, The Jets and The Cowboys. Just look at how the big tuna did in that draft when they got Ware. The guy knows how to draft and he doesn't draft guys just because he is friends with their family!
     
  30. Stitches

    Stitches ThePhin's Biggest Killjoy Luxury Box

    53,148
    31,935
    113
    Nov 23, 2007
    Katy, TX
    Parcells wasn't GM in all those places, is what I am saying. I want the picks he is personally responsible for in the 1st round.
     
  31. Mr772

    Mr772 New Member

    195
    21
    0
    Nov 28, 2007
    Cro was my choice as well. Its rare to find a guy as big and tall as Cro that can move so well.
     
  32. Danny

    Danny New Member

    203
    3
    0
    Dec 21, 2007
    Allen has gotten better the last few weeks, was he worth that 16th pick? No and I was very upset that we even took a safety in round one....to me is just not worth it to take a safety that high......nothing we can do about it now but he is getting better so I just hope that he'll be a solid starter for us for a few years.

    Ozzy rules!!
     
  33. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

    99,377
    37,301
    0
    Nov 22, 2007
    inching to 100k posts

    The "proper" film study time will help him out, and the other cat I had in mind for the 'rest on his laurels" Was Channing Crowder, both of these players seem to have the same hang up, lack of Read and React skills, the difference is Jason Allen has more physical talent then Channing.

    When we find a new Defensive Co-ordinator, it will be interesting to see how well JA adapts to the new scheme, another variable for JA next season.
     
  34. sweeper

    sweeper New Member

    319
    7
    0
    Nov 26, 2007
    Crom was considered a freak of nature and a top 10 pick but hsi injury blew him down a few on the boards. Allen would be good iwht a good S alongside him to call plays while he just plays footbal w/out thinking as he stated.
     
  35. FinSane

    FinSane Cynical Dolphins Fan

    19,862
    5,792
    113
    Dec 1, 2007
    Melbourne, Fl

    Well at least we got two decent 3rd down backs in Minor and Booker, a good backup LB in Derrick Pope and a solid nickel back when we had T-Buck.
     
  36. RevRick

    RevRick Long Haired Leaping Gnome Club Member

    7,191
    3,940
    113
    Nov 25, 2007
    Thomasville, GA
    Boy, talk about short term memory loss. This is the first year Mueller has had the draft to control. The reason we are 1-13 is because of the six years of drafts before that - those picks chosen by Wannstedt and Saban, and Saban's were not THAT bad - specially when compared to Wannstedt's. As far as the Ginn pick showing anything, it shows he values speed, which can't be coached or developed. See what Ginn is doing in three years before you criticize that pick. Wide receivers are historically very slow to fully develop in the league.
     
  37. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    111,648
    67,540
    113
    Dec 20, 2007
    . Jason allen, hmmmmm, The kid has a passion for the game like nobody else on our defense, several times he has been are emotional leader on the field, he's got incredible ethusiasm and love for the game. He's not the sharpest tool in the shed but with the experience he's getting you can see the improvement, he's fast and he's fearless.

    His body concerns me,small frame, narrow hips and shoulders, skinny wrists and ankles. i love his agression but he's gonna get gurt the way he throws his body around.

    Look forward to seeing him and the bullfrog line up next year, i would also like to go on the record and say that mikeal lehan has been our best secondary player the last half of the season, the kid has the chance to be our number one next year.
     
  38. finsgirlie

    finsgirlie break my Luxury Box

    9,217
    3,124
    0
    Dec 2, 2007
    Fantasy Land
    i agree with this, but i dont see him improving....dont know about giving him more time....unfortunately, he performed better at the mini & training camps than he did all season :glare:
     
  39. Bonedoc7777

    Bonedoc7777 New Member

    324
    4
    0
    Dec 2, 2007
    allen is getting better, i was watching that draft and remember parcells wanted to draft him if they were ahead of us,
     
  40. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    111,648
    67,540
    113
    Dec 20, 2007
    parcells will love him and jason will love parcells, parcells loves players who love the game and are fearless, LT was'nt the that smart either, parcells woul;d just tell him to go kill somebody on the field and LT did it, Jason Allen will be a beast next year,mark it down
     

Share This Page