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Panthers@Dolphins game thread

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Disgustipate, Nov 24, 2013.

  1. Anonymous

    Anonymous Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Uhh, we were 7th in scoring defense last season and now we're 10th, tied with Tennessee. The struggles you saw earlier in the year are gone. He shouldn't be going anywhere.
     
  2. RoninFin4

    RoninFin4 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I'll agree to disagree; I think that's a misnomer considering they're giving up an average of 22.3ppg and have given up 20 or more points in 9 of 11 games this year. The same struggles still exist and were present on the last TD drive Carolina had today.
     
  3. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    excellent point, we surely didn't run those stretch plays today, and we surely ran the same delayed handoff up the middle play..that was it I believe..and your right, the Olineman were blocking into the middle..I mean we have a jv unit out there at this point so..I'm not sure there's much you can do, seems like poorly designed runs.
     
  4. 77FinFan

    77FinFan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Particularly w/ all of the injuries we have had this year on defense.
     
  5. Ludacris

    Ludacris Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Part of the problem is that the defense is on the the field 32 mins a game 4th longest in the league....why? because our offense cannot stay on the field. The offenses time of possession is 28mins per game, 5th shortest in the NFL.
     
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  6. Rocky Raccoon

    Rocky Raccoon Greasepaint Ghost Staff Member

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    Jersey
    The thing about the defense is a lot of players have emerged as pretty good football players. Jared Odrick, Olivier Vernon, Dmitri Patterson, Chris Clemons and even Nolan Carroll are all much improved players. Dion Jordan is looking more and more like a stud as well.

    However, linebackers have been the downfall. And they're letting teams run on them.

    But other than that, the defense has been forcing turnovers and getting good pressure all season long. The defense is good. If they tighten up the run defense they'd be really good.
     
  7. Anonymous

    Anonymous Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Jones has been terrible, too. But I feel like Wheeler, Ellerbe and Jones played well today.
     
  8. Rocky Raccoon

    Rocky Raccoon Greasepaint Ghost Staff Member

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    Jersey
    This is an excellent point as well.

    I don't know how anyone can look at this team and think the offense isn't the main issue. Mainly run game and pass protection.
     
  9. Rocky Raccoon

    Rocky Raccoon Greasepaint Ghost Staff Member

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    Jersey
    Jones has played better recently, but the linebackers are forcing him to get away from what he did best last year. Reshad is at his best when he can freelance. Now, he has to cover more because the linebackers can't.
     
  10. smahtaz

    smahtaz Pimpin Ain't Easy

    Disagree completely. Unless, of course, Philbin looks bad after the investigation. Which I doubt.

    Obviously Sherman has to go. This offense resembles his Aggies and it's not the QB. The scheme is mind boggling. If this team still had Dansby and Burnett, Coyle would be sitting pretty.
     
  11. RoninFin4

    RoninFin4 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    If you're referring to me, yes, I think the offense is more of an issue. I certainly think I'm in the minority when I say the defense is WAY more of an issue than most believe it to be; that's fine, people will believe what they want. But this defense has cost the Dolphins games this year.

    I'd also say you have to consider that the following players on defense are free agents after this year:

    Randy Starks
    Paul Soliai
    Brent Grimes
    Nolan Carroll
    Chris Clemons

    That's 5 of the 11 guys who started today's game. Dimitri Patterson and Jared Odrick each only have 1 year left on their current deals. Come this offseason, other than the O-line, I think the offense takes a backseat to the defense in terms of priority; at least, it should in my mind. Even though this defense has the potential to be good if coaching/schematic changes are made, IMO, it's still sticking out like a sore thumb with areas you're going to have to address. You're probably going to have to make some executive decisions on guys with high dollar cap numbers as well - chiefly Patterson, Wheeler, and maybe Koa Misi, relative to their play (or ability to stay on the field as it relates to Patterson).

    Just some food for thought.
     
  12. Anonymous

    Anonymous Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I would let Starks, Soliai and Clemons walk. Bring back Carrol and Grimes. Release Patterson, he's far too injury prone.
     
  13. KB21

    KB21 Almost Never Wrong Club Member

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    Time of possession is overrated. It wouldn't be an issue if we were generating more of those 53 yard TDs like we had today or more 70+ yard runs like Lamar Miller had against Cincy that he ultimately fumbled on.
     
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  14. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    So at what point is Philbin responsible for what his coordinators are doing?

    Hell, taking away the offensive and defensive play calling/scheming, what else coaching wise is being done well?
     
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  15. RoninFin4

    RoninFin4 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Who is it you think wanted to replace them? I'd imagine Kevin Coyle probably had a large hand in it, especially with respect to Burnett. If you recall the Club Thread on Ellerbe (I'm not sure it's something I should post in the main forum), I think you'll catch the drift, at least with respect to Karlos Dansby. Dansby may very well have remained a Dolphin if some things had happened differently this past offseason if you remember the thread. So, I'll give Coyle the benefit of the doubt on that, but his use/misuse of guys like Koa Misi, Olivier Vernon, Dion Jordan, and Jared Odrick this year is damning; as is the failure of Wheeler to live up to the contract he received until the last game and a half.
     
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  16. Rocky Raccoon

    Rocky Raccoon Greasepaint Ghost Staff Member

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    Jersey
    Nah, wasn't referring to you. I'm also not saying defense isn't a problem. But IMO, Problem is 50% offense, 25% defense, 25% coaching.
     
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  17. RoninFin4

    RoninFin4 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Interesting take. Probably the most interesting I've seen as far as offseason threads/posts have gone on this forum.
     
  18. Anonymous

    Anonymous Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Sarcasm or serious?
     
  19. RoninFin4

    RoninFin4 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I'm being serious. I don't recall seeing that combination yet. If it's been posted before, I've missed the post. It certainly merits consideration in my book.
     
  20. Ludacris

    Ludacris Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Big plays are far and few between. However, this is a short quick passing offense, which is fine, but they haven't been overly successful in converting 3rd downs, getting first downs and too many 3 and outs especially in the second half.
     
  21. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    Carolina came into this game scoring 30+ points in 4 of their last 6 games, and their fans thought they'd put tire tracks all over our defense. What ACTUALLY happened was Miami's defense kept Carolina from crossing their own 31 yard line on 8 of 10 viable drives! EIGHT.OF.TEN. The other 3 drives featured Coyle's beautiful prevent before haltime and 2 possessions already starting in Miami territory.

    From a scoring log standpoint, up until the final drive it looks like this:
    Carolina's first FG--- thanks to Ginn's 41 yard punt return. Carolina offense moved the ball 8 yards.
    Carolina's second FG--- thanks to Coyle's prevent D.
    Carolina's first TD--- quality Carolina drive.

    ... so up until Carolina's final drive, for all intents and purposes Miami's D really only allowed 7 points & 225 yards, kept Carolina from crossing their own 31 on 8 of 9 drives, and handed Miami's offense 3 points off an INT. People wanna talk about what Carolina's defense has done lately and how that was the difference in this game? F*** that. Miami's defense was the superior unit today, and if Miami's offense could've taken advantage of their 7 possessions inside Carolina territory [4 of which started there thanks to Miami's D] it would've ended up looking like a dominant defensive performance worth bragging about. We would've looked back and said, "Man, excluding Carolina's 2nd half kickoff drive, can you believe our defense limited Newton & Co to 142 yards!!!"
     
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  22. thisperishedmin

    thisperishedmin Well-Known Member

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    I dont understand the people saying the D is a problem...they're the only reason we're hanging in games and in at least one, directly winning games late. The times where they dont come through in the 4th Qtr - they just look completely exhausted. Today was a week where they looked gassed and its hard to blame them when the offense is going 3 and out or maybe converting a single first down, rarely scoring, and letting momentum swing completely.

    The calling is suspect at times (IE prevent at the end of the first half) - but I don't think we'll see that type of thing again. If we do - another strike on the HC every bit as much as the DC.
     
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  23. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Bk, I responded here instead of the other thread..

    The team I believe played very hard today...when that happens and you come up short, players start to question their coaches..

    Now, that might be all well and good, but I also feel pretty strongly about this..our four top weapons on offense are complimentary football players..Wallace..yup..Miller...yup...Clay..yup... Hartline...yup..

    I'm not sure they have enough talent to get them over the hump of average...you throw in a poorly designed oline, and no depth in the running back unit, it raises some serious questions about the personnel dept..
     
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  24. Limbo

    Limbo Mad Stillz

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    Really interesting point, never thought of it that way. But I think you're right. We don't have that guy who we can truly feature and lean on in key situations. A guy who consistently wins one-on-ones in a variety of ways and makes big game-changing plays. We don't have that constant mismatch guy like a Gronk/Graham, we don't have that prototypical #1 horse WR like a Green or DThomas - or even an athletic, tough gamer like Steve Smith (too soon?). Personally, I think those guys are hard to come by, especially for us given our cap issue and recent adds at WR. I do think a dominant lead running back would improve our offense immensely.
     
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  25. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    Yup, a redzone weapon and a back who can get us positive yards on 1st down and convert in short yardage would do wonders for this aqua & orange Yugo. Gotta fix the Oline in FA to leave the draft good and open to grab a few talented offensive skill players who satisfy our needs, so that we can draft an Eric Ebron, Mike Evans, or Sammy Watkins in the 1st round b/c we sure as s**t can't grab guys like that in FA with the money we have tied up at WR.
     
  26. KB21

    KB21 Almost Never Wrong Club Member

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    Free agency is fools gold no matter what. I'm not an advocate for going out and spending a bunch of money in free agency. I think when it comes to the line, you have to see if there is anyone who you feel has been underused on another team and try to bring that player in on the cheap. Otherwise, you are better off long term trying to build the line through the draft. What the Dolphins need to be doing once they get a new GM is move down in the draft and get as many 2nd and 3rd round picks as they can over the next two years. Develop the players into the system and bring in guys that fit. Don't spend big money on a free agent who plays well in a gap scheme but doesn't have the feet for a zone scheme.
     
  27. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    Jamon Meredith would come on the cheap and satisfy one interior spot [LG]. He looked impressive filling in for Carl Nicks and is athletic enough to meet our needs. Chad Rinehart could be an inexpensive option at RG who played well in his limited starting time in Buffalo but was hurt for most of this year in SD. I'd sign Branden Albert & Michael Oher to bookend and be done with it.
     
  28. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I don't think it's fools gold, but big money free agency is a risky proposition. You can do a lot of good work through mid-low end free agency, and I don't think there's any reason to avoid that.
     
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  29. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    but you have to spend the money KB at some point..
     
  30. PhinGeneral

    PhinGeneral PC Texas A&M, Bro Club Member

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    The D is a problem. Is it the problem? No. The offense needs the brunt of the attention. But this is a defense, re-tooled under Coyle, Philbin and Ireland, that was supposed to be better than this. I'm also not particularly buying the "gassed" excuse. It wasn't like they were on the field all day, and they certainly weren't the team wearing the black uniforms. All it took was someone, anyone, to make a play in a critical situation. We've seen this story too many times in the past 15 years- Good defense that lacks the killer instinct more times than not.

    As for the play calling, I'm not so sure you wouldn't see something like that again. It wasn't an isolated case of Coyle having his team in the wrong position at the wrong time.
     
  31. PhinGeneral

    PhinGeneral PC Texas A&M, Bro Club Member

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    The D is a problem. Is it the problem? No. The offense needs the brunt of the attention. But this is a defense, re-tooled under Coyle, Philbin and Ireland, that was supposed to be better than this. I'm also not particularly buying the "gassed" excuse. It wasn't like they were on the field all day, and they certainly weren't the team wearing the black uniforms. All it took was someone, anyone, to make a play in a critical situation. We've seen this story too many times in the past 15 years- Good defense that lacks the killer instinct more times than not.

    As for the play calling, I'm not so sure you wouldn't see something like that again. It wasn't an isolated case of Coyle having his team in the wrong position at the wrong time.
     
  32. Deerless Dice

    Deerless Dice Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    For what it's worth, I believe the move from Burnett to Wheeler is the side grade many said it would be in the off season. Miami traded coverage ability for blitzing ability. As far as run defense goes, both have 13 missed tackle on the year https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2013/11/20/signature-stats-tackling-efficiency-lbs/
     
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  33. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Wheeler played a nice game yesterday..I don't see the big difference between he and Burnett, but Dansby is better than Ellerbe, the hope is this dude will not get soft with his contract and use his youth to become a much better player.
     

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