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Dungy helps us

Discussion in 'Science & Technology' started by dolfan40, Nov 12, 2013.

  1. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    "STOP PERSECUTING MY DECISION TO SUPPORT PERSECUTION!" :cry:

    Tony Dungy has nothing to contribute to this situation. He's neither qualified nor fit to deal with a situation where someone has been ostracized for not fitting in(because he's a big fan of that), nor should he be in any way involved with someone whom had depression or other mental health issues approaching suicide attempts given his history there.

    We'd be better off putting Gregg Williams on our committee, at this point.
     
  2. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Don't trust anybody who thinks human beings are sinning for being gay..
     
  3. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    So, Tony Dungy is a demon because:

    1) He supports something that a very, very large plurality of people in this country support
    2) His son committed suicide

    Got it.
     
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  4. NUGap

    NUGap Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Imma leave Dungy alone, because while I don't agree with his views - I won't take issue with them unless he's harming someone. But I'm not sure polling indicates that's a plurality of Americans support Dungy's anti-gay marriage stance (unless we're talking about something else, in which case I'm confused)

    Gallup: 52% back legalizing gay marriage/ 43% against: http://www.gallup.com/poll/163730/back-law-legalize-gay-marriage-states.aspx
    USA Today: 55% support/ 40% against: http://www.edgeboston.com/news/nati...pport_at_record_high_in_wake_of_scotus_ruling

    A large percentage still don't support it, but it wouldn't be a plurality
     
  5. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    I can see why you took it the way you did. But when you look at the Merriam-Webster definition of "plurality":

    Then my meaning fits into definition #1, not definition #3.

    I would have said "majority" otherwise. If 40 to 43 percent (which is honestly even a little bigger percentage than I thought) of a population of 314 million people believes gay marriage should be illegal, that's a very large plurality (as in, "a large number or quantity"). That's like 125 to 135 million people who are evidently all demons who should never be trusted to weigh in on issues of bullying.
     
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  6. NUGap

    NUGap Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I see. I've always heard of plurality in relation to political science in which case a plurality of "supports gay marriage" would be 43% support, 40% do not support, 17% no opinion as opposed to a absolute majority of "supports gay marriage" which would be 53% support, 40% do not support, 7% no opinion. But we're just talking semantics now.

    Never heard of it being used like definition #1, just my poly sci background speaking.
     
  7. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    Sounds about right. That is a lot of Americans I do not trust to weigh in on issues of bullying.
     
  8. Triggercut

    Triggercut Well-Known Member

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    There are a few assumptions you make with this post. One is an idea of what sin is, and adopting a Christian view it is what God is against. So we have your view vs. God portrayed in the bible (assuming your statement is against Christianity which typically is). Also, you mention trust - that someone shouldn't be trusted for having views differing from yours... What an arrogant statement and intolerant of others beliefs, don't need to say much regarding that. And you assume that being gay is a sin, it seems much like being susceptible to alchoholism is a sin.... It isn't. All of us have attractions that in some sense have to be held in check, and there is no scientific evidence that homosexuality is genetic.... I know people who were homosexual that have since become heterosexual in thought and deed.

    we are much as Jesus said, that what comes out of our mouths and therefor the path we walk and the things we do that defile us. For those that see that then Christ is there to redeem them. For those that don't, then it is foolishness.

    (please don't hold to the genetic fallacy of the tribal nomads and all that nonsense, it really says nothing to the truth or falsity of God's existence)
     
  9. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    A plurality is wrong, or at very least redundant in this case. Regardless, I don't think it matters, it's a terrible opinion and even worse public policy.

    Tony Dungy is relentless in his self promotion over what a good father he is.
     
  10. Vendigo

    Vendigo German Gigolo Club Member

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    People who genuinely believe that being gay is wrong in any shape or form and put this prejudice into action (by, say, championing for legislature that denies gay people equal rights) are no different from racists or antisemites. They don't deserve tolerance. I reserve my tolerance for decent people. Which is why I have no tolerance whatsoever for Tony Dungy. He's a bigoted prick, and I want him far away from any franchise I'm rooting for.
     
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  11. Triggercut

    Triggercut Well-Known Member

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    At least you admit to being intolerant of people's beliefs and own up to your bigoted attitude towards others you disagree with. Strange because that is what you are accusing others of doing (being intolerant and bigoted). I hope you will also, one day, own up to your own hypocrisy.
     
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  12. Vendigo

    Vendigo German Gigolo Club Member

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    But of course I admit to being intolerant of intolerance. Quite openly, I must say.

    No. Tony Dungy and his brothers in mind have every right in the world to being intolerant and bigoted. They have no right, however, to impose their stupidity on other people. I'm not saying people as dumb as Tony Dungy should be disallowed to marry. Be my guest, Tony. Marry away. Unfortunately, he's the one saying that people unlike him should be denied the same right. And that's what I'm being rather intolerant of. For all I care, he can believe the world is run by smurfs in yellow aprons. No beef with me. As long as he doesn't require other people to wear a yellow apron (or a yellow star, for that matter), he can believe any fairy tale he likes.
     
  13. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    So you are tolerant of murder and think killing puppies for fun is a good thing?
     
  14. BicketyBam

    BicketyBam No Fist Pumps Allowed

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    Dungy killed puppies?! Oh the humanity!
     
  15. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    I am happy to say I am bigoted and intolerant to people who murder puppies. And I think being against Gay marriage is just as bad.
     
  16. Anonymous

    Anonymous Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    An opinion is just as bad as murder?
     
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  17. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Dungy having a point of view on something is one thing, him making it one of his life causes to push the legislative process to abuse and antagonize as small segment of the population is completely different. The former is incredibly dubious, the latter is unconscionable.
     
  18. BicketyBam

    BicketyBam No Fist Pumps Allowed

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    I'm not going to lie. A guy could go home and worship Satan every night, but if he could make my team better, I'd probably look the other way. Hell, I rooted for Jason Taylor when he signed with the Jets!
     
  19. BicketyBam

    BicketyBam No Fist Pumps Allowed

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    I had no idea. Where the hell have I been?
     
  20. Triggercut

    Triggercut Well-Known Member

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    At some point, with the time that is given to you, I hope you will come to realize your hypocrisy. Seeing the level that this has quickly devolved to (blundering accusations and all), this has come to an end.
     
  21. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Naw, bro. You've got about 15 years on the outside before you've got the shame of being the latest version of this:

    [​IMG]
     
  22. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Wait...hold the phone.

    Dungy discriminates against people but that's not intolerance. Thinking he's douche for doing that is intolerance?

    The mental gymnastics behind that must make you winded.
     
  23. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    No way Dungy succeeds Philbin. Wait what are we talkin' bout here?
     
  24. maynard

    maynard Who, whom?

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    The thread is about a guy standing in a room with a machine gun, shooting anyone that walks in.
     
  25. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    puppy murder.
     
  26. Anonymous

    Anonymous Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I still don't agree.
     
  27. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    You don't have to.
     
  28. RevRick

    RevRick Long Haired Leaping Gnome Club Member

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    Ah... I have a day involved with my duties... and the conversation further devolves. And, my duties are not complete yet with regard to the situation which arose..
    so I will have to be relatively brief, but I hope, more fully explanatory.

    Your stances regarding the entire panoply of things discussed in this thread arise from your world view - your cosmology/cosmonogy. So does mine.. and therein lies the difference. The problem is that no one is discussing that. This has become a name calling, accusatory trash talking, blamestorming whirlwind of words. Ludicrous, unconscionable, bigoted and other words are thrown against a person who has taken a stance out of belief, and conscience, by the way - with words which portray that stance as intolerance.

    At heart, instead of a discussion about the beliefs, that belief itself is questioned (at least!) and also derided as being the cause of the world's ills, when in fact, the cause of the world's ills are our own inherent desires and temptations. But, that is getting back to the idea of cosmology.

    Where did life originate?
    How did it develop?
    Where are humans located within the universe?
    What is the relationship of humans to the gods, or God?
    What is the purpose of human existence?
    Is there a purpose for human existence?

    If in your mind, there are no answers to these questions at all for they have no meaning in your life - then anything goes - and your viewpoint wins - for you.

    If there are answers to the questions human existence which indicate that we are a cosmological accident - then the same thing applies.

    If the answers are that we are a created species formed by a design - along with the rest of creation - then the game changes.

    Now, keep in mind that those of us who fall into this category, and accept as our normative stance the last proposition do not always agree about the answers to the questions posed on this thread, and the matter of human freedom for all things is debated constantly. Remember my statement that Christianity is not a monolithic structure!

    To skip several different layers of theory/antithesis/debate/synthesis - (some of which has to do with the Mesopotamian, Babylonian, Egyptian, and Greco-Roman world view!) the operative problem within the context of this debate about Tony Dungy seems to be the idea of marriage with regards to homosexuality. This may, to some, wind up being nothing more than a tempest over semantics... What is marriage?

    Those of us who are people of faith and accept the Judeo-Christian origin mythos by faith (not literally but metaphorically in my case!) the definition and purpose of marriage comes from a narrowly defined and heavily defended setting. (Heaven forfend you were to attempt this debate in an Islamic controlled social setting - the result would be cataclysmic - and short!) Gen. 2:24a - "Therefore a man leaves his father and his mother and cleaves to his wife and they become one flesh" RSV. That same Scriptural source also has a number of proscriptions for many other sexual activities and relationships. (I am sure you know this, but let me finish, please! - for this is being debated both internally within the overall faith community and externally within society!)

    If society is to decide to change the societal rules of the debate about homosexuality and marriage, that is certainly a capacity that society has inherent within itself. But, when the society decides to appropriate that Spiritually blessed institution and force the spiritualist to conform in the spiritual activity of the institution - that is the wrong. And that is much of the source of the debate here on this thread. The formalized civilly recognized union of two men or two women in a covenanted relationship is a civil right IF the civilly recognized legislation of that political unit so decrees - but it is not by the oldest definition a marriage. It is a civil union, a civil partnership, whatever, which could be endued with the civil rights of a marriage - but it is not by historical definition a marriage in the Judeo-Christian tradition and heritage.

    I have no doubt a lot of people will sharpen their wit, pens, and fingers about that term Judeo-Christian - but it is the source of a lot of Western civil and political thought - and has informed and transformed much of the Greco-Roman historical accession into our society - so be careful about throwing it out with the bath water... some babies may be in it!

    So, the question is, do those of us who follow this Judeo-Christian ethic now have to, according to the common social wit and popular cause, surrender our values and teachings to satisfy the claims of the new popular social norm - or by defending those values and teachings based on our own consciences face condemnation by the same society because we do not accept the latest popular change? Do we have to surrender our faith in Scriptural Authority to assuage the anger of the popular cause? Note that the principles of the society itself are largely founded on the principles taught by this ethical system. Do we have to surrender our faith in Scriptural Authority so assuage the anger of the popular cause?

    Even more insulting, do we have to accept a status within that society as poor, benighted anti-intellectual and morally impoverished yokels because of our support for a principle which calls into question the actions of that society. Many of us take up this life and living very seriously, and seek to conform to the higher teaching of Christianity, and most of us fail at some point. I am not writing about the actions of the few idiots in every group has who seem to find a way to blemish the good which is done in the name of that group with acts which defy common sense or morality! I am writing about those who study, reflect, and spend time deeply examining self and cause to follow God's will for themselves and for this world! That is my cosmology/cosmonogy!

    To some who have responded on this board, their replies would reduce me, and Tony Dungy, simply because we are responding based on our Christian faith, down to the level of a George Wallace, or a George Lincoln Rockwell, or a Fred Phelps. By the simplicity of their responses without further explanation, those responses are not debate. They are defamatory

    One more thing. The one vital component of all of this attack on Christianity, both mine and Dungy's, fails to understand is the theology of GRACE! Very simply it states, we are all going to fail to live up to our highest expectations. We are fallible humans! Therefore, the Creator (God in my terms) has provided a means by which we can escape from the sins (the bad things we do!) in this life through Grace - the free gift of forgiveness for everything! You know by the common word of this day how that is won for Christians. I need not expound further on the mechanism. But, in the end, there is GRACE. Even the most dogged defenders of the faith fill fail - and ultimately rely on that!
     
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  29. VManis

    VManis Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Wow, Rev, I'd hate to be in a pew when you feel the need to expound on something, probably miss the four O'clock game. :lol:
     
  30. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    Now do the same thing with inter-racial marriage, slavery and being able to murder your wife on the off chance she cheated on you.
     
  31. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    WADR, no one is asking you to surrender your faith.

    You do not have to accept or condone gay marriage. You do not have to marry a gay person. Your beliefs should not be what dictates what happens between two people who are not you.

    Stopping anyone from gay marriage is not really part of any belief.
     
  32. emocomputerjock

    emocomputerjock Senior Member

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    Pfft, you only think that the above are bad because society.
     
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  33. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I'm not sure what 3/4ths of this has to do with your conversation.

    Marriage isn't Judeo-Christian. You don't have to surrender anything besides the idea you've got rights to govern the lives of others.

    Yes, and you deserve it if you're going to step beyond your right to govern yourself and believe what you want into the rights of other people.

    Conflating an attack on your belief with an attack on Christianity as a whole is dishonest. That's not what this is.
     
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  34. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    So if it is engrained in the teachings, then the leaders should change the way they teach, if one cannot do that for fear of going against what the bible says, or they simply do not have the ability to think for themselves, then the teachers will keep harboring the ignorance within their students.. taking the literal sense of." Marriage should be between a man and woman" like what the bible says, is wrong..if you believe that god has somethin to do with every creation, then shouldn't every child have the right to do what their hearts tells them to do, like when they grow up marry who they are attracted to and want to be united with?unless of course there are people that truly believe that being gay is not inherited at conception??? And if that's the case, they will continue this disgusting cycle of degrading a large segment of gods creations.
     
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  35. RevRick

    RevRick Long Haired Leaping Gnome Club Member

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    To reply quickly, you are forgetting the ..."gift" of free will. We can do anything we bloody well want! Whether it is what the Creator would prefer is not the issue. What do we choose to do? So far as the proposed genetic component of homosexuality, I believe the jury is still out on that - though I must admit that I have not delved as deeply into that of late - I have my hands full with normal, everyday avarice, lust, stubborness, anger, strife, etc., etc., etc.

    One more thing.. the teachings are not engrained - every generation of teachers and students of theology worth their salt have to wrestle with these proposition for themselves - and there are many who choose different interpretations and proceed in their course according to their interpretation. Anyone who undertakes to study the Word (the most common meaning of that is the Holy Writ - but is it highly multi-valent) without questioning their comprehension, interpretation, and application of that Word for themselves cannot properly defend the faith, let along expound it. And, I must admit, I am - to use a phrase borrowed from Lucas - still a padawan. There are masters out there who are far more properly equipped to answer your questions - but so far as I know, none of them frequent this board.
     
  36. RevRick

    RevRick Long Haired Leaping Gnome Club Member

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    You are, so far, nowhere near comprehending any of what I have tried to say, which is one of the reasons I wished for this to be off the board. You appear to have fully embraced concerning the conduct of society as compared to the religious estate the standard unconsidered outside of secular desires teachings which leaves no place for the church to have a voice in matters. Historically, the community of faith has always been called to be a counterbalance to the excesses of the secular world - and has been the leavening influence which has won much of the 'civil' rights and benefits today... We are not called to govern, but to question the civil world when it begins to act as a spoiled child, or worse, a secular despotic force - including when it tries to divorce itself from ecclesiastical influence. Read Bonhoeffer, or C.S. Lewis or the Letters from the Birmingham jail. Left to its own devices, society without a leavening influence of faith would become as a petulant child - wanting only what it wants and caring nothing about others - which opens itself to manipulation from either the far left or the far right.

    Further, I would suggest that most of us here are so far from being far left (despotic communists) or the far right (equally despotic fascists) that our intransigent bickering is ludicrous. But that is what we have inherited with a 24 hour per day availability of a media which once was dedicated to impartial reporting, and is now driven by the power of the dollar.

    As far as your last statement - you have engaged me because I came to the defense of Tony Dungy when you objected to his stance based on his Christian values with some rather highly negative connotative wording. (I don't dare try to go back and find the whole quote or I would get completely lost in my computer system, but you were highly offended about something!) I am defending those values of faith in these conversations, which, as an ordained minister of the faith, I have taken an oath to do in order to remain true to my considered values of faith - whether or not they agree with your values. Am I not to speak out against abortion? Do I not speak out against adultery? Do I not speak out against fornication, or murder, or theft, or even dishonest behavior? Do I not speak out against political oppression - the kind that kills people who disagree with it - think Kim Jung Un - who evidently has sanctioned the execution of some of his people because they had a Bible in their possession?! Do I not now have the right to speak out against a subordination of a value expressed in the canon of faith to fulfill a secularly derived demand, or to defend another person who has expressed an opinion based on his faith with which you have taken offense?
     
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  37. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    " what the creator would prefer"""

    Wow..

    Therein lyes the problem rev..you are not convinced it isn't a choice..

    I'm not sure how anyone can walk this earth and not see countless examples of human beings who have an inordinate amount of the other genders hormones streaming and evolving within their bodies..I've seen very small children like this..

    Have you ever heard of the term butch/bull dike Rev?? Do you think that's because of a makeover before they leave the house..open your eyes my friend..because closing them and continuing to just believe is only hurting those folks who are looking for acceptance for how they were born..it's not a fault bein gay..they should not have to cover themselves up or feel ashamed, these are feelings they feel because folks keep telling them how wrong it is, and how it's not gods will...could you imagine the guilt they feel...no wonder the suicide rate is so high...damn it.
     
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  38. RevRick

    RevRick Long Haired Leaping Gnome Club Member

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    DJ - I have been in far more intimate contact with that particular situation than you can ever imagine! I know whereof I speak.
     
  39. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Christians on a mission to prevent two LGBT consenting adults from getting married is not a mission laid out in the Bible.

    Thou shall not be married to someone of the same gender, is not one of the 10 Commandments.

    Christians do not own the word "marriage". They did not invent the idea of marriage. In fact, the Bible's version of marriage is very different then what many Christians consider traditional marriage today.

    Two LGBT consenting adults getting legally married no more insults your faith then the millions of non Christians not going to a Christian church on Sunday effects your faith. Gay marriage is no more or less a sin then being not Christian.
     
  40. RevRick

    RevRick Long Haired Leaping Gnome Club Member

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    Have you read the Torah?
     

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