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General Manager Candidates

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by ckparrothead, Nov 12, 2013.

  1. TooGoodForDez

    TooGoodForDez Deion Sanders for GM

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    Both Coughlin and Tomlin would be upward moves, not lateral, from coach to GM.
     
  2. rtl1334

    rtl1334 New Member

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    I have always thought that it's tough to evaluate a coaching staff until he has the horses to perform. I'm not sure yesterday was so much a team being ill-prepared as opposed to a team that was so woefully overmatched on the offensive line.
     
  3. TooGoodForDez

    TooGoodForDez Deion Sanders for GM

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    That's circular logic--if they are good, then they are good.
     
  4. rtl1334

    rtl1334 New Member

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    No it's not. We have a good example this year with Mike Tomlin. He's been to 2 SBs - winning one and has a franchise QB. Has he suddenly become an inept 3-6 coach or is the team's lack of talent impacting the outcome?
     
  5. cuchulainn

    cuchulainn Táin Bó Cúailnge Club Member

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    ON the scouting front - opinions on Chris Grier, our current Director of College Scouting?

    His dad, Bobby, is the guy who scouted and drafted Brady in NE. Not asking about him as a GM. Just on his performance...
     
  6. Frumundah Finnatic

    Frumundah Finnatic U Mad Miami?

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    If Philbin is willing to part with him than yes, if not then fire both of them.
     
  7. steveincolorado

    steveincolorado Spook, Storme & Pebbles

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    Not for the GM position, but I wonder what Curtis Martin can bring to the table?
     
  8. pocoloco

    pocoloco I'm your huckleberry Club Member

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    I think it would come down to Russ Ball and Brian Gaine, aka guys that would keep Philbin and Sherman
     
  9. KB21

    KB21 Almost Never Wrong Club Member

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    Here is another thought. Instead of pursuing a GM, why not take the organization back to the paradigm that existed from 1970-2003. That paradigm was an organization where the head coach was the central figure in the organization. From 1970-2003, the head coach had all the power over the football operations. I don't think the paradigm failed them as much as the implementation of it failed them in the Wannstedt years. Dave was a horrible personnel guy, but I'm not sure it was because he was a horrible judge of talent or if he didn't trust his scouting staff. Trust. That is the key thing with this paradigm. This model worked well in the Don Shula years because he had guys like George Young, Joe Thomas, and Bobby Bethard who he trusted early on and then guys like Eddie Jones later on. Philly during the Andy Reid years worked out well because he had brought in Tom Heckert Jr., whom he trusted to run the personnel department. I'm not sure Dave had that, as he ignored his staff when they recommended that Dave should draft Drew Brees and Anquan Boldin through some of the drafts the Dolphins had. I know Rick Spielman was apparently big on Boldin, and Tom Braatz was big on Brees.

    So, instead of hiring a GM, why not just go to Jon Gruden and Bill Cowher and tell them that the team is willing to offer them the power they crave to convince them to come back to the game?
     
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  10. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    hopefully anyone interested in being Miami's GM would choose their career over unwarranted allegiance to Sherman, or at least learn from Parcells' stupid allegiance to Dan Henning.
     
  11. muscle979

    muscle979 Season Ticket Holder

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    I think they're at the point where they offer those guys anything they want to come to Miami. They desperately need the credibility that one of those two would bring. I think that outweighs the risk of them making bad personnel decisions. There's been nothing BUT bad personnel decisions going on in Miami for years so really there's no risk at all.
     
  12. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I think if we can narrow down the list, then post what we know of their drafting record, we could make the right choice.
     
  13. dolfan22

    dolfan22 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    I'll ask here , Cinci has accumulated a lot of talent , whom do you feel is responsible for this ? An option for Miami at all?
     
  14. Rocky Raccoon

    Rocky Raccoon Greasepaint Ghost Staff Member

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    This is the way to go IMO. We have a lot of talent on this team, so bringing in a GM who can work with what we have is essential. Everyone has to be on the same page here.
     
  15. Rocky Raccoon

    Rocky Raccoon Greasepaint Ghost Staff Member

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    Jersey
    I also think a lot of candidates will depend on what happens with Philbin too. If Philbin can finish the year strong and Ross wants to keep him, I'd bet we look into the Packers organization for a GM. Someone who knows Philbin and could work with him.
     
  16. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    Yup, I'd be less interested in the best GM available than I would the one best suited for our current roster which already has a pretty decent foundation like the one the Chiefs did going into this year. Hire a GM who can bring a template that matches up to our roster rather than a GM who would need to dismantle everything to get the team where he wants it.

    Here's a trio that could work, and with a template that would fit our current roster:
    Scott McCloughan- as GM [Seattle's Senior Personnel Exec].
    Scott Fitterer- the same job he held in Seattle plus some sort of title upgrade to enable his hiring [Seattle's Director of College Scouting].
    Then pray Gus Bradley gets canned by Jax so he can turn Miami's D into Seattle 2.0 since many of the pieces are in place.
     
  17. rtl1334

    rtl1334 New Member

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    There was nothing I heard in Ross' voice yesterday that says that he isn't smitten with Joe Philbin. People can speculate regarding his motives but it certainly didn't come through yesterday.

    Don't forget, Ross had Peterson sit in on the coaching interviews and apparently he too came away very impressed with Philbin.

    We have to look at this from Ross' perspective. Ireland was a Parcells holdover so getting rid of him is no big deal. Philbin was Ross' hire - which was apparently heavily influenced by one of his closest confidantes. I doubt Ross is willing to admit that he made a mistake with Philbin two years ago but he can rationalize that Philbin was hamstrung by an expansion caliber unit (the o-line).

    It is possible that the removal of Ireland will increase Philbin's clout within the Organization. By no means do I think Ireland and Philbin are joined at the hip.
     
  18. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    The coaching staff has been more culpable than the team Ireland fielded for them.
     
  19. rtl1334

    rtl1334 New Member

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    I think changes have to be made to the coaching staff. What has haunted this team for years is having generally good talent across the board but then being critically inept in one or two areas. At this level, teams can find that weakness and exploit it week after week.

    This year it happens to be the o-line.
     
  20. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    ...which is getting overly exploited b/c the team is playing sloppily and being poorly coached/schemed which is putting greater emphasis on Tannehill and thus more stress on the Oline to protect him during times when opposing defenses know the pass is coming. The oline clearly isn't helping matters, but the coaching and sloppy play isn't helping the Oline to be less of a liability IMO.
     
  21. rtl1334

    rtl1334 New Member

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    When your linemen are getting beat in one on one situations and d-linemen can get to the QB in just over 2 seconds...I don't know how you coach around that.

    Teams don't even have to get exotic with blitzes. They can just line up four or five and drop the rest into coverage. This line is the Texans line from 2002. Historically bad.
     
  22. Rocky Raccoon

    Rocky Raccoon Greasepaint Ghost Staff Member

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    Here's the question I have. If Jeff Ireland, Mike Sherman, Kevin Coyle and Jim Turner all get fired, but Philbin stays, would you be upset with that? Right now, that's what I'm hoping for.
     
  23. rtl1334

    rtl1334 New Member

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    I would give Coyle the pass for the year. Overall, the defence is doing enough to win. Turner...to take a line from Gary Stevens...I don't know how you make chicken salad out of chicken s***.

    Sherman just doesn't seem to get it. Today when asked about the late pressure he rationalized it by saying the defence can tee off because they know the screens and draws are out of the equation. Umm isn't that precisely when you run a screen or a draw? When they're not expecting it.

    He just seems too unadaptable to keep around.
     
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  24. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    fix the cadence for starters? Then cease the team's overall sloppiness and fix the play-calling and scheme issues so that it's our opponents who are left fighting for the late 4th quarter wins which would cut our sacks in half. Tannehill wasn't sacked against Tampa until the final drive when we were in an obvious passing situation, and the pressure by Cincy wasn't overwhelming. There were 7 fourth quarter sacks against NE & Baltimore after we gave up the lead and entered more obvious passing situations.

    If the sloppy play continues, as well as the poor scheming & playcalling, then we'll unfortunately continue to get beaten up in obvious passing situations. I'm more concerned about the affect of Incognito & Martin's absence from the ground game.

    Philbin & Sherman have gotta come up with better ways to pick up positive yards on 1st down.
    Miami's offense ran 23 plays on 1st down against Tampa. 12 went for zero or less yards; another 3 went for 1 or 2 yards. The oline clearly isn't helping matters, but neither is the play-calling and design. IMO, if we can't win 1 on 1 battles up front then find some creative ways to circumvent it so that we're not placing all the emphasis on straight forward execution.
     
  25. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    I wouldn't give Coyle a pass unless he came out and said he was forced by Philbin/Ireland to scheme it up the way he has and that if he had full reign he would've done it such and such way differently, and then I'd have to agree with that way. Otherwise my impression is that he's doing an unacceptable amount of fitting players to scheme and not finding enough ways to get some of his playmakers better involved.
     
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  26. Desides

    Desides Well-Known Member

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    Yes, because then that's not a complete house cleaning. That's again a partial approach that hasn't worked for years.

    If you're flushing the DC, OC, and position coaches, just flush the HC too and be done with it.

    That said, I would rather fire Aponte than Philbin.
     
  27. rtl1334

    rtl1334 New Member

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    But when we see the overall atrocious defensive play across the league, I wouldn't put our team in that category. We've been poor in some situations and we haven't integrated some of our personnel properly but overall they've played well enough to win.

    Yesterday, they made the game winning play to put our offence on the 28. That should have been an easy score and a win. It's on the other side of that ball where the major problems are. And yes, from your other post, 1st down inefficiency has been a killer.
     
  28. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    Do you have your own personal chauffeur?
     
  29. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    Luckily, none of us have to make the choice then. The best choice IMO though would be DeCosta if he wants it.

    Darius Butler is doing pretty good for the Colts as their nickel back, so I wouldn't call him a bust. The Pats just gave up on him too soon.
     
  30. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    Never heard that before. Where did that info come from?
     
  31. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Armando Salguero. He discussed it one day. At the time it was the richest contract ever given to a CFL player (though obviously still a pretty cheap deal by NFL standards). Gaine just didn't like the idea of giving a CFL player that much money.
     
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  32. Zounds

    Zounds New Member

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    All I know is that its going to take more than a GM change to make better draft picks and free agent signings. Our college and pro scouts need to be turned over as well, and that includes Brian Gaine. They have been terrible, particularly the pro scouting.
     
  33. KB21

    KB21 Almost Never Wrong Club Member

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    Just to note, Stephen Ross also confided in Tony Dungy during the coaching search last year. While he was not in on the interviews, I do feel that Stephen bounced some ideas off him. All this means is that I'm curious what this committee is going to tell him about the coaching of this team.

    I think the coaching staff's biggest issue is the talent mismatch with what they want to do. Joe Philbin wants an offense that is capable of making big plays in the passing game that can stress the defense both vertically and horizontally, and right now, the offensive line simply will not allow him to have that kind of offense. I do feel they could do a better job of adapting and getting Mike Wallace involved more in the quick passing game, though that will admittedly be limited because of Wallace's poor route running. When you don't have an OL worth a quarter though, it is very difficult to make anything work.

    Bottom line though is Joe Philbin wants an offense where he can use a 6 man protection with the line and tailback most of the time and send 4 guys into routes.

    That has to be Philbin's decision though. When you go to a coach and tell them to fire so and so or you are fired, then you essentially have a lame duck coach who is on his last legs. I want to see Philbin make these tough decisions himself without goading from up top.
     
  34. JMHPhin

    JMHPhin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I want philbin to stay but he needs to recognize changes r needed
     
  35. 305

    305 Brawndo Club Member

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    Get off my lawn.
    Just curious for the people who want Philbins to stay... Just what exactly has he been successful at doing? It's not his offense... Not his defense... He obviously doesn't have a positive training and work program..

    ...clean house and try again.
     
  36. Dolphins1Beatles

    Dolphins1Beatles Ziggy Stardust

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  37. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    Some of our college scouts have been with the team since the Shula era.
     
  38. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Cannot think of a better reason to let them go then.
     
  39. steveincolorado

    steveincolorado Spook, Storme & Pebbles

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    I'm not 100% sure, but wasn't Wake's first contract a 4yr/4 mil deal? Roughly
     
  40. LBsFinest

    LBsFinest Banned

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    Why? You said talent isn't the issue.
     

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