PFF: Dolphins don't throw to running backs

You talk a lot about Philbin's system here, but I would be very interested to know exactly what system that is. I'm not arguing with you at all, I'm just genuinely curious as to what your take on his system is.

I'm not knowledgeable enough to differentiate between small differences between offenses and their intricacies, but to my untrained eye it seems as if we don't adhere to many of the staples of a WCO, such as using an over-abundance of short routes to force the defense to spread out in order to open running lanes and deep passing routes.

 

Giants have had the same line problems as the Dolphins. Their solution was not to try to change Eli Manning into a short passer but rather to gut it out to establish a running game.

Likewise, Tannehill is most effective when throwing the ball 10-20 yards downfield, which leads to having 4 receiving options heading downhill while getting open relatively quickly. Trying to transform Tannehill plus adding a 3rd skill to the backs that struggle with pass blocking (much better now) is not a good short-term or long-term solution.

Unfortunately, it doesn't seem as if the running game or the defense is capable of gutting it out to keep the season alive. With the desired mobile OL becoming less mobile, I fear that the Dolphins will be faced with blowing up season to allow the mobile OL gain some experience.

 

I think it's difficult to expect even the more basic elements of offensive tree stereotypes to fit at this point. No one is doing what Bill Walsh did 30 years ago, and I think a lot of what occurs today has more in common with other offenses of today from different trees than the stuff that originated the "system". There is some terminology, some concepts, some plays in common, and they might do some stuff differently than other "trees", but at this point it don't tell you too much.

 

Its what's been talked about before.

The only way I know to describe it, is that is based on the WC offense, and is centered around having similar WRs but each excel at a given aspect. For example, you want all of them to be moderately fast, smart and crisp route runners, with one that is all that plus he's got an explosive 6th gear, another who may not have that 6th gear but is traffic specialist or one that is dynamic in the open field with the ball or one that's actually a TE but plays like a WR who is a huge target...etc. Depending on what the opponents defense is most susceptible to, that's who is going to be the focus of the passing game. This is where the whole, "we don't need a number 1 WR" thing got all conflated from. Philbin doesn't necessarily view WRs as #1s or #2s, etc. He views based on their skill set and how they'll be used with a given opponent. Some offenses have the alpha receiver like a Megatron or Marshall, and they will live and die by that receiver. Philbin would certainly love the skill sets these guys bring, but a Marshall is not going to be happy if he isn't the focal point of every game (neither is Wallace it seems). Now from there, Philbin also needs his RBs to be able to pass protect effectively and then be dump off options. The WRs, the TE and the backs all need to be on exactly the same page since they all have the authority to adjust a given route based on how they are being defended and they all need to adjust accordingly. Plus, this gives them the ability to line everybody up all over the field. Not to be interchangeable (as was also the cause of confusion in the past on the board), but to make sure those skill sets were being optimized based on a given defense. Essentially, he doesn't bother with the notion of dictating to the defense what is going to happen, its more about let the defense tell us what they're going to defend and we'll get them another way.

The patriots, adapt not to their opponent per se, but more to there own limitations. They have crap receivers, fine, they'll become a dynamic TE team, etc.

Now maybe I shouldn't be calling this a "system" since system is used for other things. Maybe I should call it a philosophy.

We've seen it play out already, some games Hartline is the star, others it was Gibson or Clay.

 

...which is strikingly similar to, I think, precisely what we were all hoping for when Philbin was hired, and that is a clone of the Green Bay offensive philosophy. But my question then becomes...why does it seem like Philbin and Sherman aren't on the same page? Certainly Joe has that background, and we all sort of made assumptions about what he did during his tenure in Green Bay, but the offense seems to have more of Sherman's fingerprints on it than Philbin's. And the scary part is that Philbin doesn't seem to mind.

Are they even watching the tape? They see how bad our line is playing, and Sherman keeps calling the same plays with 20+ yard routes and no dump-offs that leave Tannehill out to dry. Or he abandons the running game when we're winning. Or one of 100 other things. But this really isn't a question of Sherman's incompetence...it's really a question of why Philbin has been letting Sherman just do whatever he wants, instead of actually directing him. "Stop abandoning the run. Stop calling these plays. Give the QB more dump-offs."

I believe Philbin has a system. I just don't believe he's actually doing anything to install it. Either that or nobody is listening.

 

The template should be New Orleans and many of their concepts are similar to ours. They just do a far better job of getting their skill players in positions to make plays.

The usage of the backs is one of the reasons you cannot compare QBs in a vacuum. The situations are so different. Almost everything Tannehill gets is with the downfield pass. He does not benefit much from screen, shovel or swing passes. For years I've seen "elite" QBs pad their stats with simple, high percentage plays.

 

Yes it is the Green Bay philosophy. That was Philbin's job there. He created the game plan, scripted the first drive, implemented the offense during the week, etc. McCarthy called the plays though. It was a weird dynamic. Now, I don't think McCarthy called the plays because Philbin couldn't, but maybe. I dunno.

As far as here, I think his system can't be completely installed because of the oline issues. They can't utilize the backs in the offense, because they are too important to pass blocking because our line sucks. Wallace has no time to get down the field, because our line sucks, we can't run with consistency, because or line sucks.

Also, I truly think that Sherman is too old and experienced to call the game properly, like Henning.

I think the biggest flaw in Philbin is that he has a run it till its right mentality. If something isn't working because of the other team then he'll switch it up some, but if its not working because of low talent or personnel issues, he'll run it anyway. I think we see that with substitutions. I don't think a whole thought is given to who is in at the time a play is called by Sherman. There might be the perfect play for Miller and he'll call it, even if Thomas is in. I think he does that because that's how Philbin ultimately wants things to be. They aren't however. That problem is two fold and has two different people to blame. First, Ireland is to blame for not getting the people Philbin wants to complete his philosophy when he had the opportunity this offseason. Secondly, its Philbin's fault for not adapting and forcing change with Sherman.

 

I was going to bring this topic up. Especially when you look at stuff like our last drive when the D-Line is selling out and LB's are attacking, why not use Miller as an outlet pass?

Give Tannehill the ability to send Miller where he wants him, or keep him. I see that as a big problem with our sacks, there is really no outlet pass. The back always blocks.

 

Here's three articles that discuss some of the Packer's passing game philosophy:

http://pocketdoppler.com/2013/07/03/the-packers-offense-under-aaron-rodgers-the-a-gun-the-j-gun/

http://pocketdoppler.com/2013/07/08/from-the-far-hash-the-evolution-of-the-packers-offense/

http://pocketdoppler.com/2013/07/09/from-the-far-hash-jermichael-finley-and-the-passing-game/

 

Don't know how much is Philbin because I'm seeing what I remember in Green Bay when Sherman was calling the plays he just isn't that good.

 

Well back to the OL. Keeps making circles and falls right back on the weak link.

 

Sig worthy post.

 

Last guy we had who threw to the backs was Cam Cameron.

I mean, Ronnie caught 39 passes -- at 10 yards a pop -- in a little over 6 games. Cam really threw to the backs.

I think several folks have done a good job of highlighting the disconnect between what the coaches want to do and what the GM is giving them. In this case they want bigger, more rugged backs for pass pro. They inherited Daniel Thomas (who isn't that guy) and were given Lamar Miller. But as discussed, the staff isn't adjust to what they've got either.

There's more than one way to achieve success. Personally, I prefer an approach that strives to make the defense respect all facets of the passing game. You can go fast and still throw to the backs. McCoy has 30 catches in Philly. Moreno has 37 in Denver (51 altogether). New Orleans is on the top end with an insane 90 catches between Thomas and Sproles.

 

great stats...when you look up at the end of the year and see brees and peyton with 5000 passing yards, just for fun see how many yards receiving their rbs get. i guarantee it will be around 1/5th of their passing yards (1000 yds). sometimes making simple throws to your rbs in space is what makes qbs elite. miami's rbs will be lucky to top 300 yards receiving by year's end. it's downright mindboggling.

 

Thank you.

 

Does anyone know if Offensive Lineman are typically placed on a teams Practice Squad?

If they do, why wouldnt we be putting in claims to sign some of them.

Are both Cog's and Martin's spots on the Roster now available? If Yeatmans injury is as bad as rumored...we are gonna be hurting for lineman.

 

I don't think the OLine is entirely the excuse here. We don't have RBs who can burn defenses when they blitz.

Defenses have to be careful about blitzing New Orleans, Baltimore, Denver, or Cincy. If the blitz gets home a second too late, guys like Pierre Thomas, Rice, Moreno, Bernard...they'll torch you in space with only one defender to beat, as is often the case against the blitz. A near-miss blitz turns into a big play when the ball gets in the hands of those guys. But chipping and leaking out is a hard thing to get a feel for. Moreno's a phenomenal pass blocker, but he's also a savvy vet who knows when/where to disengage and make himself available. Same goes for PThomas (Sproles rarely blocks). Gio Bernard was the best receiving RB in the draft, but it's taken him most of this season to figure out how to deal with complex blitzes and when he can get into the flat or underneath as an outlet. It's a hard thing. The guys who can do it well are very valuable, imo.

Miller lacks both the things you need: his timing coming out of pass pro doesn't look quite right as he's usually not great available option for Tannehill; and he, for some reason, struggles to beat LBs one-on-one either with quickness/precision/separation in the route or shedding the first tackle. This happened in the Tampa game a couple times, iirc, where he caught a ball short-middle but the LB was in his pocket the whole time and Miller couldn't get away. But in those circumstances, making one guy miss often turns into a big play because they have the extra bodies going to the QB.

Hopefully he gets a feel for it eventually. Going back to college, I just think he hasn't done it enough, wasn't asked to do it with Mike James holding it down at the U. They split Miller out/slot for quick perimeter screens, but that's a different thing. It'll take some time.

 

Just to note, the Green Bay Packers have targeted their running backs on 35 total passes this year. They have thrown the ball 314 times. Miami has thrown it 331 times with 33 targets to the backs.

In previous years, Green Bay's numbers have looked like:

2012 -- 71 RB targets, 557 pass attempts
2011 -- 88 RB targets, 552 pass attempts
2010 -- 80 RB targets, 540 pass attempts
2009 -- 82 RB targets, 553 pass attempts
2008 -- 77 RB targets, 539 pass attempts

The past two years for Miami:

2012 -- 91 RB targets, 503 pass attempts
2013 -- 33 RB targets, 331 pass attempts

So, on average, Green Bay targets the running backs about 14.5% of the time in the passing game. Eddie Lacy pass blocks about 36% of the time. Alex Green last year was in pass pro around 41% of the time. In 2011, John Kuhn was in pass protection about 36% of the time. Daniel Thomas this year has been in pass pro around 41% of the time. The Dolphins have averaged throwing it to the backs about 14.8% of the time.

This is very clearly a system issue, and it is a personnel mismatch issue relative to the system. This team needs a bigger running back that can "stop people when they come at him" as Brian Gutekunst said about Eddie Lacy.

 

I wish Thigpen would stop trying to return kicks 8 yards back in the end zone, how may times do we have to start inside our own 20 before he figures this out?