Just wondering. I get the sense he knew he was in over his head on this situation, and didn't trust his internal people like Ireland to be truthful in investigating this, so let the NFL handle it. Now, that runs the risk of the NFL protecting the league by making it look like football culture isn't broken, it's just the Dolphins that are broken. That's the risk, imo. But what do you think Ross should be doing at this point? Is he responsible for any of this? "Should" he have known, or are owners so above the day-to-day of a football team that he is free of responsibility? What do you think he should do next? Because ultimately, he will be calling the shots on this one, with advice from the NFL, and likely Dawn Aponte, and perhaps his friend Carl Peterson.
One thing I don't like about Ross is that he always says the key to business is hiring people and staying out of their way. He likes to get as uninvolved as possible. That happened again here as he quickly handed the investigation off to the NFL. But there are times you cannot afford to avoid being involved in an important situation. This is a time when an owner needs to have a clear vision, personality, conviction and step in and be HEAVILY involved. Does our lack of leadership start at the top? I don't know, but as this plays out we will learn a lot more about who Stephen Ross is as an owner.
I can tell you that no owner, not one with this kind of money ever walks away. While he may not be there or he may say yout stay out of their way, you can bet your bottom dollar he knows what is happening. He gets reports and has his poeple in place to pass on information. Having an outside entity look at what is going on on the inside is done as a means of transparency. It would be a tragic PR mistake to say that we could handle this on our own. I have a feeling this would be coming anyways after the season as he would want to know what to do with regards to Ireland etc. anyways. The scope of the investigation would liikely be truncated without this scenario, but there would likely have been a review given the team's performance Ireland's contract situation and also that of Joe Philbin. Heading into his 3rd year they would want to know ahead of time what they had to work with; especially if there were the possibility of a new GM to begin with. As someone who is upper management, I can tell you there are always things going on in terms of peformance reviews etc. more often than not these are done quietly and daily if not weekly without anyone knowing. Just because you hear silence from the top so to speak does not mean that all is well. I'm a General Manager and I have reviews and I am critiqued on everything. Even how much time I spend on this site. Upper management usually knows much more than they let on.
forgive a re-post but I believe it is appropriate to your new thread: unfortunately much more can be damaged than the front office, coaches & locker room. the franchise has been on thin ice for over a decade. Ross is a businessman & the owner. he can do what he wants with the franchise. it may prove to be in his best interest to sell-out or slip into the night, like Daddy Irsay & the Colts did in Baltimore. think about it as you contribute to the lynch mob mentality & negative innuendos that prevail. this is a contrived & manipulated event that if allowed to be quietly & judicious handled by the NFL would behoove everyone in Dolfandom. P.S. Ross is an excellent owner but a media hound. he does care about the media & very much so. he's all about business & he knows perception is a reality for most. the fans will be the one's to suffer in the end of the day.
I think he made the right call by allowing a 3rd party to handle the investigation. A 3rd party should be impartial, or at least is supposed to be impartial. Any findings from an investigation conducted by Ross or his executives would be discredited because they are a stakeholder in the outcome of that investigation. It was the smart thing to do to immediately involve the NFL and NFLPA once they learned of the allegations. Regarding if he should have known about this, I'd say no. I'll even go as far as saying Philbin couldn't have known abut this. OL coach Turner may have known something, but his name hasn't surfaced in all of this yet. The media keeps hammering Miami's "locker room culture", but many of the alleged incidents happened outside of the locker room, and off of team facilities. These guys were friends who apparently spend time together during the offseason outside of team facilities, and its not like this was happening right under Philbin or Ross' nose.
third party investigation makes it look like we are taking the investigation seriously. Besides that I'm not sure what it is you think he might be responsible for? The story was already blowing up so bringing the nfl into it would have eventually happened anyways.
Yes. He is currently in the middle of the largest real estate development deal in American history. His Hudson Yards project is a $20B deal. I'm pretty sure he just scored a $300M tax break just the other day. The Dolphins are somewhat important, but he's got bigger fish to fry.
Can't handle this internally, not after the fiasco in NO. And I'm not talking about our night game there.
A third party does not have to be impartial unless you are specifically hiring an impartial 3rd party. The NFL has a lot at stake in this case, and is therefore not impartial. I don't see what other choice Ross had, though. I'm not sure what to think about how much coaches did or didn't know, but you have mutliple sources that have said that not only did the coaches know, but that they asked for Martin to be targeted for toughening up. Now we can debate the difference between toughening someone up and bullying them, and I think you'll find pretty quickly that the difference in this case only lies in how well the person coudl cope with the treatment and whether they felt they could use the treatment to avoid losing a lot of money.
You know you're living large when you have a billion dollar investment, and it's too little to worry about because you have a $20B one on the roll too. I gotta tune my mind to THAT level of thinking! Love it.
You have to let an outside entity investigate this, nothing else would do you any good. Simply cannot investigate yourself and have any credibility. Thats a complete non-issue. Ross has been silent and that has been a mistake, not that he isn't meeting with the press, but it seems like the Dolphin Organization is completely out of its depth in terms of handling a situation like this. Ross could show some leadership here and take control but I doubt he will. To me if I was an owner I'd have solved this behind the scenes days ago....money would have changed hands, an apology sent forth, Martin released (with a big check) and Incognito released as well. Move on, this situation has no winners, we should have just met with Martin's people, came to a solution and moved on days ago, this is at a really silly point right now and it shows that the Dolphins organization is very, very poorly run. If Ireland told Martin to punch Incognito I would simply fire him on the spot no questions asked, he's done as a GM of any team if that is true.
Assuming that you could sit down with Martin's people and hash this out a few days ago is folly. Why would Martin and his people want to sit down with us and hash this out now? Why wouldn't they continue to use the press as they have and are doing to drum up support for his side of the story? Right now the story is out and truly trying to do a hush deal is not the way you'd want to handle this at this stage. Maybe months from now when much of the hoopla has settled, but you'd never the opposing side to sit down and hash this out. It doesn't serve their best interest nor does it paint the best image of their client given the proximity of the initial event. Leadership isn't getting on soapboxes and making announcements, its much more behind the scenes, especially on a football team where there is a HC. Ross doesn't to say anything about this, he needs to let his football people handle it more so than he does. Like the business I am in. As GM if something goes wrong at my business I have to say something it required, not the owner or the Board. That's what I am there for, to insulate those people from the minutia, they sit back and earn a return on their investment. That's what Ross wants, and that's what he should do. He shouldn't be addressing the media very often, if it all outside of charity and PR events.
There's a litany of people more responsible for this than he is. You know the people in the building day in day out; those are the people responsible for what has happened, pure and simple.
We could have handled this awhile ago with a deal, you're right, now its way too late. But we basically escalated things with the denial....that was issued by the front office and coaching staff. Before that the ownership could have certainly solved it behind closed doors. Basically we have a terrible front office and staff, they are clearly responsible for the lack of control, leadership, and for not recognizing that this wasn't a 'deny it and let it go away' issue. The entire situation is being controlled by the Martin Team, we are at their mercy, its almost hopeless right now. More and more dirt is going to come out and its just going to trash the entire team and organization. We should have sat down with Martin and come to a resolution. If that meant giving him his outright release and a couple of million dollars thats a fair deal, you take that over the bad press. Our team is run by a bunch of clowns, its fairly obvious right now.
What's Ross' Responsibility In This Process? Stay out of the way and try not to let ANYONE influence his thinking. Read the final report by the independent investigator and then seek legal advice. Once that has all been wrapped up act decisively and swiftly.
He also employs the janitor, is that on him too? Very few of these people involved will actually speak with Ross.
Ross should be talking to anyone involved at some point, this is going to end with him, fair or not. This isn't a typical corporate environment, this involves, literally, a world wide media blitz, he needs to be heavily involved if he values ever getting any type of new stadium deal or mending fences with the public........a public that makes or breaks his bottom line. He is going to have to be heavily involved, if he's not then he's a truly stupid human being, I dont think he is. I don't know what situation you're comparing his ownership of the team to but it is not a typical CEO or GM situation, this is a very extreme case. This is the type of situation where management gets fired....regardless of their involvement in a lot of cases... because of public pressure. If he isn't talking to those involved then he's a blubbering idiot who shouldn't own an NFL franchise.
Mando pretty much calling for heads. Ireland, Aponte, Philbin. http://www.miamiherald.com/2013/11/08/3740075/armando-salguero-miami-dolphins.html He needs to let the facts play out....he is a dick.
I think at this point the Dolphins need to win a lot of games to save Ireland and Philibins job. Like the Superbowl.
I used to be on Philbin's side, after reading this and agreeing with it, I just don't think Philbin is our man anymore. He should have been in front of this, and had the pulse of his team better. This mess is what you get when you have : a rookie owner, a rookie GM and a rookie Head Coach.
basically I agree, as usual, with your post. having said that, let me assure you no NFL linesman is going to be bullied... this is an inflammatory & totally inaccurate statement... children are bullied on playgrounds, not NFL linesmen in locker rooms. I don't doubt there may be issues of mental health, mommy or a lack of desire to play in the NFL, especially at right tackle. I believe Martin may eventually prove to be the most infamous character to wear the aqua & orange in our history as a franchise. might add, the obviously embittered, revenge motivated Sage Rosenfels is third rate in every dimension measurable. the "loser" has no credibility in my book.
Why would you use an example like that? I'll invest time in a serious reply when you want to talk seriously about this. Yes, I meant the janitor. And also the parking lot attendant. That's who Ross puts the most care into selecting because of their impact on his operation.
While I'd back off on the extremity of some of your adjective choices, I agree in principle, 72. This whole issue is germane to the health if his $1B investment. Which he had offers on a few months ago. I'd bet the valuation on those offers is much lower now. Perhaps eight or nine figures lower. If that doesn't get his attention, what will? Actually, I doubt any investor would touch us until they see the fallout of this whole thing... too much risk at the moment. And given that this 'scandal' could lead to the doomsday of the GM-Headcoach and others, it's safe to say that choices on who Ross employs need to be examined by Ross since their jobs wouldn't be at stake if they weren't a negative to this business right now as opposed to a positive.
I'll say this... at this point Martin tops the Dolphins infamy list for me.... Infamy In Aqua - Players 1) Jon Martin 2) Cecil Collins 3) Yatil Green 4) Daunte Culpepper 5) Incognito (for the golf-girl assault, not the bullying... as of yet) Coaches 1) Cam Cameron 2) Wannsatache 3) Nick Saban
Yatil green? A man who suffered two devastating knee injuries in two preseasons with us is on your infamy list? I'd say the dolphins are doing pretty well then.
I think that Ross has made the right move by at least making the appearance of saying "I have a problem in my orginization, and Im going to be transparant and let the NFL handle this". Whether thats true or not is debatable, but its the public face and a good move, IMO. In the end, IMO in a mix of results and PR, I think that just about everyone will be let go. I hope at that point that the team hires some people with experience. All of these first timers have failed.
Historically the Dolphins have been a very aggressive team when it comes to legal/negotiation postures. The OJ McDuffie situation blew up in their face. They took Duante Culpepper to the steps of court over his release and then caved at the last minute when it was clear that Culpepper not only held all the legal aces but would go through with the trial [NB not that I disagree about getting rid of Culpepper, only the sloppy legals of how they tried to do it]. While it is good for your ego as a client to have your lawyers talk bullishly about how they're going to win every case, at the end of the day the the best legal advice is telling you when it's time to fold and settle. It's worried me for a long time and this case really has the potential to blow up and burn the Dolphins very badly if they play hardball on it. The 'rookie tax' aspect scares me the most, especially if the report that Martin was pressured into picking up a $30,000 dinner tab is true - that's only a very small step away from criminal extortion and one that an aggressive criminal prosecutor will have no problems taking if a police complaint is lodged. In this situation the two sanest solutions are either to pay Martin and cut your losses, or to be fully repentant and change your ways and get him back. The downside of fighting Martin ugly, and I don't see a situation where fighting Martin will give the 'phins anything other than a pyrrhic victory at best.
The Dolphin's track history on legal matters suggests that they'll fight it and fight hard. Which will encourage Martin's side to fight nasty and will change Martin's perspective from this being a thing he needs to get over and move on with into a fight for justice and to restore his reputation. If Ireland is calling the shots on the legals and whether to fight or settle it get's worse considering Jeff's well won reputation for lowballing and being taking aggressive postures.
I hope he sells the team , we get a new owner who changes back the logo and hires people with a football mind. I like Philbin, not so sure referees respect him though. Our Team does not need rebuilding , but the staff sure as hell does.
PlanB: 1) what makes you think the sale would be local & not result in relocation? 2) how many times can you rebuild a team? what makes you think the result would be anything but another three year bust & waste of time? the problem is probably not with the present organization. very possibly it is with the fan-base & environment upon which it is built. can't build a house on sand & expect it not to sink. could be that sooner or later the owner or a potential owner will figure this out & govern them-self accordingly. 3) I believe, that like governments in the political arena, every fan-base has the team they deserve.
