As we get deeper into this it seems like football culture itself reinforces all the things which are not allowed in a safe, emotionally acceptable workplace according to the law. Is football on trial and at fault, or is it just the Dolphins that are so dysfunctional that things here are more extreme than at other franchises? We've moved past the lone perpetrator into having coaches and other players implicated. So is the Miami organization rotted from within, or is it the entire NFL culture thats beyond the boundaries of acceptable social norms and even laws? Or is neither true and the blame lies with one overly fragile individual who had no business trying to pretend he fit into a culture he did not belong in. A lot is at stake. If Martin wins a case proving the entire culture of the team was unacceptable in an illegal way, it raises the question of whether this is the standard situation in all franchises in this sport. The league could have a major issue. A sport-killer. Or at least a radical culture shift within the sport. So what's on trial here... A couple players, the Dolphins organization, or the sport of football itself?
hmm I think most people would say its 100% football. I'm going to say 80% football 20% dolphins. I was pretty shocked with the honorary black thing tbh I doubt that's the norm. Also the fact this new thing of incognito sexual harassing this chick at a charity event being covered up makes me honestly just not want to know what sports teams hide on a regular basis.
If a lot of this stuff sounds shocking to people then they really underestimate football locker rooms/gyms or just 20-30 year-old men in general.
I think this is what scares the NFL. Because if the defense for the Dolphins is "Every team is like this" then the entire NFL is screwed when it comes to labor laws. And the NFLPA comes out looking like a joke of a union.
Or we are saying that the workplace laws that apply to all other workplaces do not apply to the NFL as a workplace. How do you make that argument? I know Television writing rooms (Network TV) won a harassment case where a female writer felt uncomfortable with the male culture in there due to crass jokes. But they successfully defended that culture as germane to the creative joke writing process. You cannot brainstorm comedy (with the tenet "What's the WORST that could happen?") if there are P.C. limits on the brainstorming process. Now i don't know how the culture of the NFL justifies itself in this case, but maybe NFL counsel takes a look at how military conduct rules function within the context of 'warrior culture'. It's definitely going to be a debate on this that widens past "Was Jon Martin bullied by Richie Incognito". In my opinion, the culture of the sport is about to go on trial. Unless they settle with Martin. Which would have been smart to do initially, but now would look terrible.
I know people in office jobs who talk like that too if it makes any difference to you. It's society and people wanting to be more PC than most are in reality.
It's both. This is something that the Dolphins will initially bear the brunt of, for letting a sociopath like Incognito be their spokesperson. But the NFL has been almost criminally negligent in approaching mental health. This is a league that just last year saw an active player murder his wife in front of his child, and then shoot himself in front of coach and GM. I heard that apparently no NFL teams bother to employ a psychologist full time. We have seen hazing **** like this get brought up before - fraternity culture and the military are two big ones - and get beaten down as it should. The NFL should be ashamed that it has taken this long for them to potentially act. Ultimately, I think that may save the organization the pain of institutional punishment such as lost draft picks. We will see a number of front office and coaches get the axe over it, and that will be it.
I don't see this anywhere near as drastic as all that. I don't doubt that the media wants to spin it that way, but in the end this all seems to about one man. If guys like Dallas Thomas or egnew joined him, he'd have a case. I'm just failing to see how one man, on a team of 53 men, can prove the entire locker room is ****ed when none of the other 52 men come to his side. You'd think someone would if his claims are true
Except when those people are reported everyone unanimously condemns them. It is NOT acceptable in corporate culture. But in this case you have the majority of players and former players and even fans saying.. "Well, yeah but it's FOOTBALL." So what does that say about Football?
See, THAT is insane to me. I'd like to know how many trainers are on staff... and to not have anyone handling the emotional and mental side of these player's health. No wonder so many end up on the news, being arrested, or doing things that make us shake our heads sadly.
Na in most cases that I've seen, nobody cares so it doesn't get reported. The only people who care are the people who made the rules so they didn't hear complaining/law suits from others.
And then the question will arise in each city with an NFL franchise.. "Is it happening here too?" and when you start flipping rocks in 31 other cities... I guarantee something crawls out from under one of them.
My thoughts as well. The latest alleged text that Martin's lawyer provided is something that would be said between the guys at my work (though, personally, I would have picked the *** had I said it). We got a guy come in early this year - real good worker, but really kept to himself. They got him out of his shell by being jokingly racist toward him and now he can usually be found smoking cigarettes and chumming it up with the guys that don't do anything in the break area, trading barbs about what they did with the other one's wife the previous night. Tina really gets around if you believe the guys...
Common sense and I happen to agree with you, but sadly, it may not play out this way. Martin's lawyer is already targeting other players now as part of the bullying. Then you have Lydon Murtha implicating the coaches as knowing what's going on and ordering it (corroborating other rumors to that effect) and yet other information that the GM is encouraging a player to punch another one.... This is bigger than Incognito now. No doubt about it.
Well, Jon Martin's lowest score in his psych evals pre-draft was how well socialized he was. (Although I think it was still a 7, which is hardly a red flag). So what works with normal interpersonal dynamics doesn't work the same way for him, I guess. Thus 'Big Weirdo'. Personally, I'd ****ing fire the company that did his psych eval.
You can fire every scout that missed and not draft everyone who does poorly on the wonderlic but the reality is it's very difficult to predict if someone has mental issues and if they'll improve or get worse.
Disagree on not being able to spot potential for mental and emotional issues. PLayers are routinely removed from draft boards for personality concerns. Do agree that you don't know if they'll get worse of better because the NFL experience, the money, the pressure, is not like anything that person would have experienced before... so there is no telling how they'll handle it until they are in it. But if you are a betting man, bet on someone with mental/emotional issues to get WORSE more often than they get BETTER with more pressure and less accountability & consequences in their life (thanks to lots of money).
No one uses facts anymore. Not where the Miami Dolphins are concerned. You don't belong in football (forums).
Btw, i love that your avy is of Tyson.. probably the best professional bully the planet has ever paid. and I say that as a fan.
Thanks. As he's told people many, many times, the mental bullying aspect of having his opponent beaten before the fight even started was huge.
Crazy. Know what else is crazy. Ireland is a punter. Man... we let a punter run our organization. A damned punter. What were we thinking.
I know he's not the brightest but I think he could figure out he'd be better off paying someone to do that.
Debate spreading from Dolphins to football culture, as I figured it would. La Canfora's article, as posted in another thread, is the next logical progression in this narrative... is it jsut the Dolphins or is it all of football? The NFL better be ready for this. http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/writer...nder-scrutiny-in-wake-of-martinincognito-flap (and btw, this sound like a 7 year old... )
My guess is the NFL will have compliance people in lockerrooms after all this to make sure everyone is behaving. Which is hilariously sad for anyone not in kindergarten.
I doubt this will be a constant thing if it happens at all. From what I know of NFL locker rooms, what happened in Miami is over the top because nobody put a stop to it. There is the normal "guys hassling other guys" thing going on, but most teams have the leadership (with players or coaches) to stop and get down to business. Granted, my frame of reference is limited to a friend who has coached under people with reputations for being dictators, but there is an element of leadership missing from this team. Look at what T.J. Lang tweeted about Green Bay, and try to take the Aqua and Coral glasses off for a second (not making a personal accusation, just saying that's how a lot of us tend to see). Lang isn't just being high and mighty, IMO. Stuff doesn't tend to go this far in places with strong leadership and a decent sense of team. Look at the Missouri Tigers. A group of college players, who should be in the prime of their immaturity as human beings (and who also are not professionals), was able to deal with an "out" gay player in their locker room for an entire season. Why do we expect less from people who are supposedly adults and professionals? IMO, we as a culture make a lot of excuses for poor behavior and say "boys will be boys." In truth, we should be saying "boys will be boys until they become men." In most situations, people will play down or up to your expectations of them. It's about time Miami started expecting its players to act like men.
Sorry dude, no one knows about what happens in the Dolphins locker room if Martin doesn't crack under the pressure. TJ Lang can say anything he wants because he knows there isn't an investigation into the inner workings in the Green Bay Locker room. It is human nature to look at other people's problems worse than their own. The only way I would believe stuff like that doesn't happen in Green Bay is if they had a formal investigation into the inner workings of the locker room. Until then, TJ Lang should STFU. He who is without sin should cast the first stone.
its the dolphins. its one thing to joke around, pull a few light hearted pranks, a little rookie hazing, etc. but what is going on here is racism, homophobia, and harrassment. if there were any real leaders in that locker room or alpha males, this shyt would have stopped a long time ago. sometimes you have to put hands on someone to get the message that they have crossed a line. its okay to be quiet and introverted in football, but when someone keeps disrespecting you, you have to be a damn man. example: andre johnson.
