Source: Ireland told Martin's agent that Martin should punch Incognito

Im not defending Ireland as a GM. I am speaking to this particular incident. Nothing more. This has nothing to do with what I think of him as a talent evaluator. This has to do with what appears to me, to be a public smear campaign against the Miami Dolphins in order to benefit financially.

 

Unless it was a conference call or the agent recorded the conversation, there are only 2 people who know what was said. So how can you have multiple sources? No one else is a source, they are just repeating what the agent told them.

 

If true, I don't think Jeff Ireland can be retained in his position, he will be dismissed.

 

I can't believe anything Martin and his representation say anymore. I would need proof.

 

I am guessing this was Boik's big mystery yesterday he said might come out soon.

 

and those also with an agenda on the other side, completely pooh-pooh the story. Goes both ways Padre

 

No..your wrong

 

I can believe this and I certainly am not a fan of Martin, less so now that he has caused this problem. It's apparent that his parents are gearing up for a lawsuit.

But it goes back to this - would Ross be dealing with this if he didn't have Ireland around ? Probably not.

My main focus and agenda are clear. I want Ireland gone and will not be happy as a fan until he is gone. I won't deny it at all.

 

Unprofessional, yes. But seeing as how ninety percent of this board was calling martin a ***** and or has defended the idea the NFL isn't a normal place of business, then those people have no right to ***** at Ireland.

 

Ireland said what 99% of what fathers would tell their own sons in that situation. And like another poster stated, context is key in this conversation as well.

Ireland should be dismissed for failing to put together a good professional football roster, not for something like this.

 

That's all well and good, but its also a different conversation.

The part I take exception to, is that you said this to VT:

Because he said the VMs were edited and you thought he was wrong.

He wasn't. You were.

Now maybe it was because you were so hell bent on your admitted agenda of wanting Ireland fired, I dunno. But you were 100% wrong on this and insulted VT for no good reason.

 

Armando, for once, sums this up pretty well.

http://miamiherald.typepad.com/dolp...dolphins-knew-internally-despite-denials.html

 

This is a tiny fraction of what may or may not come out.

 

This isn't a point. It's a theoretical scenario constructed with the intention of dismissing or obfuscating an outcome that you don't like. It's not likely or even probable that Ireland was joking--possible, yes, but not probable--but you're going with that as a plausible rebuttal as a defense mechanism.

Even if Ireland was joking, his first instinct being to make light of the situation is not a feather in his cap.

 

Really ? Dude you really are reaching.

Me a Jets fan eh ? Love that its so hilarious.

And yes it all points back to Ireland. If he isn't here probably Martin & Incognito are not even part of the team. Both of them had warning signs all over them and other GM's (including a loud Polian the other night on national TV) said he had Martin with a "do not draft" tag before the draft. Another one yesterday said that because of the mental tests he had taken he graded Martin out at best a 5th rounder if not a 6th. But ol' Jeffy takes him in the 2nd.

By why bother. You are only trying to kill the messenger, because its too painful to really see just how awful the message is.

Ireland stinks at his job. He's also been confrontational with Dez Bryant, fans, and the media. He turned on a good friend and stabbed him in the back (Sparano) and now all of this ?

Open your eyes brother, and see the light......no need for us to be enemies.

 

But it also is exposing what is rotten in the organization too. That in the long run may be beneficial to the future of the team. Look at the whole picture too.

 

So you think he made this up ? Open himself up to a lawsuit by Ireland ?

 

Fine, then there is even worse stuff to come out. What more proof do we need then that the organization needs a hose taken to it ?

 

No he doesn't.

Murtha said the coaches knew of the hazing. Philbin said he didn't know Martin had a problem with Incognito or any other player. Those are 2 completely different things and armando is conflating them.

 

And again ...your missing the point. The POINT IS WE DONT KNOW. We do KNOW however, that the Martin camp has edited previously released voice mails. Im not saying this is how it happened...Im saying..theres a chance it happened like this. You cannot draw a single conclusion about this until we here all of it.

 

Read more here: http://miamiherald.typepad.com/dolp...internally-despite-denials.html#storylink=cpy

 

But right now Im not discussing the whole picture. I am talking about this specific instance where Mike Florio, (really? Mike Florio)....released information about Jeff Ireland. Its bunk information. And you want to know WHY its bunk? If it really had ANY OUNCE of reliability or could be used in court, it wouldnt have been released. Its good for one thing, and one thing only. Dirt campaigning.

 

I read it when you posted it.

Armando is still conflating 2 very different things.

 

If Philbin knew about it (the hazing/bullying) and did nothing, and says he knew nothing in a cover up, he needs to go. The reverse of that is just as bad (that he really knew nothing). And this has been going on for how long? As a HC he should know what's going on in his locker room.

Ireland just needs to go because he's not a very good GM IMHO. Add his arrogant personality on top of that, and well, like I said...he needs to go.

 

And I have the guts to say I am sorry and I was wrong. VT I apologize.

 

See invid, this is what I'm talking about.

Philbin may have knew about the pranks and stuff, but he didn't know Martin had a problem with them. ALL the evidence points to this.

 

Explain.

Edit: I got you, that's fair. Lots of variables yet.

 

No worries bro...we're all uptight about whats goin on. No harm no foul.

 

I already did.

1. Philbin never said he didn't know about the hazing stuff. He said Martin never told him he had a problem with any player, least of all Incognito.
2. Murtha, said coaches know that hazing goes on.

#1 and #2 do not conflict with each other as Armando is alluding they might.

 

Skip Bayless just, with his own words, "threw this idea out there" that Incognito bullied the entire locker room into liking him and electing him into the leadership council.

You cannot possibly make this **** up. This is gold!!!!

 

But where Philbin will have a problem is, he has said he doesn't condone that. If he he knew and it can be proven and then did nothing to stop it, then we know he is either a weak person who didn't tell them to cut it out, or he approved in this instance because it was Martin being harrassed and that's the one person he thinks it might have needed toughing up. That will be no excuse though because in his press conference he made no exceptions or conditions, he said he doesn't condone it period.

 

Yeah I can see that.

Bayless needs a lobotomy.

 

I heard this too, and my jaw dropped. I didn't think even Bayless would be scraping the barrel and getting this low.

I turned the channel after that....

 

It would seem that given the option to either double-down on the crazy, or admit that perhaps they jumped to incorrect conclusions before more information was available, pundits have decided to double-down, while ex-players turned pundits have admitted to jumping to conclusions.
It's an interesting dynamic to follow.

Anyone also notice the only people really up in arms and losing their minds over this are old white guys in suits?

 

No that is a false "either or" placed on this scenario.

He may not condone the hazing, but that doesn't mean he needs to stop it. I wouldn't want my wife to have an abortion, but that doesn't mean I'm Pro-Life either.

Martin approached Philbin. He never said he was upset with any player. Martin's teammates never heard or thought Martin had a problem with Incognito. Martin flat out admitted he didn't blame Cogs for anything either.

And none of that contradicts what Murtha said.

 

The worst thing about this whole mess is it now sets a precedent. Now, there will be more strict code of conduct in the locker room across the NFL and all of sports, if Martin wins. "don't pop me with that towel or I'll have you arrested for assault" type crap. There has to be a line between how a billion dollar organization should conduct itself and a locker room of a brutal sport. The lawyers have won.

 

New media agenda today is saying that the Miami Dolphins told players what to say to the media to use it as propaganda against Martin. This stuff is unreal...I hate human beings a whole lot more this week.

 

I shouldn't be but I am amazed at what sells for reporting nowadays. Not to mention all the retweets this drivel receives.

This is a more extreme topic but the quality of reporting is similar to a year or so ago in our search for a new QB. I remember how each report had a us being spurned by the likes of Matt Flynn...when clearly he would be the starter in Miami and how this was some indictment on the Organization. Fast forward a year and Flynn is out of the league after being cut/waived twice and we seemingly have our QB situation figured out.

Nobody has backtracked and said the Fins were right about Flynn, they just continued the narrative that this is a dysfunction Organization. Why let facts get in the way of a good story.

 

This is what happens when people listen to Skip...they get dumber. Now half the free world will go around repeating this gibberish thinking its true. Skip shouldnt be given a mic, he should be given a muzzle.

 

Please let this be grounds for firing.