Report: Dolphins coaches asked Incognito to toughen up Martin

That was in the spring of this year.....times have changed, Martin since then has flipped his story yet again.....you cant pit this on Coach Philbin. He asked a question, he was lied too...point blank...

I am in the camp that what Incognito did was probably over the line....but fireable? No. Unfortunately with the storm and the stereotyping of RI being David Duke he needs to go....

Look at this video....boob "that guy" jock admittedly, probably should be watching film instead of prancing around a pool hall with Pouncey drinking mixed drinks in plastic cups being mistaken by some halfwit fans for being Kyle Turley......

But still RI drops the n word about Pouncey, does Pouncey think it is racist? Does he look offended? ESPN has painted this dude as a freaking race hater and bigot....Me? I think RI uses it in the lockeroom at the time with his teamates.....Would I do it? No. Have I been part of teams and organizations that use it all the time jokingly, you bet...

[video]http://www.tmz.com/videos/0_1r739gfp[/video]

 

I think the problem is that you're still operating under the assumption that there was this long drawn out process of bullying and hazing, when there simply wasn't.

 

bigOshow

this is starting to look like a cluster ****

 

You certainly make good points, but do you not think that the context of all of this matters? I would hope the NFL does its due diligence when it comes to a highly scrutinized situation such as this one, regardless of media scrutiny. This investigation should be held to the highest of NFL standards, and should not be swayed by media pundits.

I think the context is the most important. Was Martin just homesick? Having relationship issues? Financial? Suicidal ideations? Or just questioning his overall passion for the game?

If it was merely his passion, why wouldn't a coach instruct a vet to look over the situation? Granted, it was the wrong way for Incognito to handle it, but this, by the accounts of current and former NFLers, is how the locker room gets a grasp on these things.

If something else was discussed, the Dolphins should have taken every resource available to the team to help this kid. If this comes out as the case, and the Dolphin staff did not offer support, this staff SHOULD be canned.

 

What's the Big O Show, PF87?

 

Get rid of Jim Turner dude. I'll bet he's behind this.

 

So haircuts and nicknames do not fall under those categories?

This is not directed specifically towards Martin, but those with some type of instability, a trigger could be anything. A stupid haircut. Dumb nicknames. Pranks.

The progression of this situation is what needs to come to light so to clear things up a bit.

 

Oh, I certainly think that context matters. For example, as well as what you've got there, I think it's almost a certainty that players "toughening up" other players happens all over the league, but no one is going to care about that.

I'm just saying that if Martin's representatives can paint a picture which looks this way, then I think the details could very easily be cast aside in the ensuing chaos and blame assignment game.



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No. It happened to all rookies and is fairly tame as far as hazing goes.

In fact, we're kind of past the fact hat it was hazing or bullying. Now its about is it right for coaches to have players try to toughen up other players.

That's my thing at this point is that the info keeps changing....and this is no longer about bullying.

 

And this is the big elephant in the room. Did this thing just spiral way out of control, and Martin just wants to get back to football (as one of his former Stanford teammates suggested via Twitter)? Or is he the driving force with a vendetta towards Incognito, damn the collateral damages?

Martin only knows. And until we get something from him, this thing will continue to grow.

 

Is this thread basically saying a code red was ordered?

 

this guy sure does sound racist....is being dubbed "honorary black man" by the black players racist? I am not sure...

http://nfl.si.com/2013/11/06/richie-incognito-honorary-black-man-miami-dolphins-jonathan-martin/

 

....

 

Yep. And I don't think we're going to hear anything until the NFL investigation runs it's course.

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I gotcha'.

But we all aren't privy to the locker room environs, or the ins and outs of what tactics coaches employ to motivate certain players. I would presume it is nothing dissimilar to how my big brother treated me as a kid, whether it was on the basketball court, baseball diamond, or while playing a game of Monopoly. He didn't hold a punch. I am not necessarily under the presumption, though, my parents used him to toughen me up.

From the accounts of former players, it is common for a coach to use a vet to toughen up a greenhorn. I guess, the question is: is this right?

I personally see no problem with it, because, from those accounts, the locker room manages itself in these situations. So if this particular instance did occur (I presume we all think it had), where are the guys who are supposed stand up for these mismanaged situations? Who are the leaders? Was it a change in locker room dynamics because of these offseason acquisitions? Who in the hell is the unopposed leader of this team, save Philbin??

Leadership may be the overall bigger issue.

 

And this is a very big problem with me. Just because someone is "different", people lack the courage to accept it, get to know someone, and move on; especially when playing on the same team. No wonder this kid may have felt like an outcast, yet his resume would be highly regarded in most circles.

This again, points to leadership, or the lack of it in this locker room. This is off topic, but Tannehill should have owned that locker room from day one. He was drafted really high, and rookie or not, he should have been the unquestioned leader of the group.

I am not saying leadership would have prevented this situation, but it certainly could have curtailed any increased stupidity by some on that team.

 

I don't buy that bull**** so many damn good NFL players came from Stanford including Richard Sherman who is a Top 5 cornerback in the NFL. That "Uncle Tom" nonsense is BS and I highly doubt players looked down on Martin just because he's smart. Has anyone heard Sherman on a real interview? The guy isn't exactly a dumbass. Very smart guy, and he's shutting down players in the caliber of Calvin Johnson. So he's not exactly a soft guy as well.

 

Yeah, I've a hard time imagining that the Colts have a problem with Andrew Luck being from Stanford.

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I see where you are coming from, but did Martin do anything to to incite this perceived negativity, or nothing at all?

My response to that article is stemmed from a bigger issue that, presumably, still shows face in some circles of an NFL locker room. Comparing his situation to other players might be a bit naive, but I can see your points.

I just think this entire thing might have grown legs these players did not think was possible. Let's hope some overall good comes from this.....

 

Being an "Honorary" myself, I understand where this is coming from, I always reffered to it as "card carrying" though. In reality it called being accepted & respected.

 

Workplace harassment certainly matters. One doesn't have to be a cry baby to not want to go to work in a hostile environment. One has to be fairly ignorant to assume it does

 

Does this mean I do not have to come home because my six-year old daughter beats me at board games then throws it in my face?? Please tell me it's acceptable to go golfing with the guys, instead!

 

I think as long the vet doesn't cross a line its absolutely vital to the "soft" player. If a guy wants to play pro ball he has to be tough. Its part of the job.

Most jobs that require guys to be tough and part of fraternity need to toughen up guys who are "soft", like the police or crab fishing, etc.

 

What other people think of you is none of your business.

 

Did you mean to say does not sound racist? When the black players on the team consider Richie more of a brother than they do Martin, it speaks volumes.

 

Yeah right, all players coming from Stanford are exactly the same personality and background wise.

 

Havent heard a word from Martin.

Which player do you think this team thinks threw them under the bus.

Listening to phinsiders..players are pissed at Martin.



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In a very technical sense, I doubt Incognito actually wanted to kill him. But I don't think it was meant as a threat in a specific way like that. It was meant as a more general threat regarding Martin's position with the team and his career in general. And they obviously seem to have worked since Martin reacted the way he did and put his own career in jeopardy by making this public.

On a slightly different note, if Incognito isn't cut in the near future it shows just how important this "culture" is to Philbin and Ireland and thus how wedded they are to bull**** tradition and not actually trying to think for themselves about how to best run a team. And it doesn't make sense when you think about it. They drafted Martin because they thought he could add value to the team. But instead of recognizing that he isn't a player in the mold of Incognito, they try to force him into being that player and risk wasting a fairly value resource in a 2nd round pick instead of maybe adapting to the player's specific personality. You can't manage a group of 50 something players as if they all have exactly the same personality and react to teaching the same way. That people in charge of this organization can't see that speaks to the ingrained culture of the league and why people who can look beyond it like Bill Belichick are more successful than others tend to be.

 

I'd love to hear everyone's reaction if Martin was playing at a high level and Clabo was the one accused of making him leave the team. Something tells me there would be a much different take on things. But I doubt many will admit it.

Better yet, same exact story except instead of leaving the team, Martin crowns Incognito over the head with a bat, ending his season. What's the reaction then? How many would have praised Martin for being tough? I bet not many. So much of the reaction here is driven by the fact that Martin isn't very good. If he were, you would be pissed at Incognito for running off a good player.



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That's nonsense. Martin doesn't deserve a pity party just b/c he supposedly has "mental issues". He's not an idiot; he went to Stanford for crying out loud. He made his own choices here, and if he did so while knowing he has mental issues [which seems apparent], and those choices led to the current events and Incognito's suspension, then he doesn't deserve special treatment from us like you're purporting. He and his mental instability aren't a victim in this; they're the friggin' culprit b/c he put his team, teammates, and organization in jeopardy.

Here's an analogous question for you: If a man with aviophobia and claustrophobia gets on a plane from New York to London and it results in both him flipping out and a flight attendant losing her job over it, would you stand up for him just b/c he has a psychological condition or would you criticize him for getting on the goddam plane in the first place and placing others at risk?

I feel sympathy for anyone with mental/psychologic issues, however, if a person selfishly and irresponsibly ignores or downplays his issues during volatile or unpredictable situations in hopes they don't rear their ugly head up and a problem subsequently arises, then my sympathy for him goes out the window. He then earns my criticism.

 

They weren't trying to mold him into another Incognito. They were trying to mold him into a person that was tough enough to play left tackle. If he was "soft" he can't play the position that he apparently wanted to play. Attitude is every bit as important has technique. That doesn't mean having Incognito's attitude either. It just means being tough enough for the position. The coaching staff would be doing an actual disservice to martin if they didn't try to toughen him up.

 

Your hypotheticals are ridiculous.

First off, if martin was playing at a high level, then he wouldn't have needed to be toughened up.
For the second one, its not comparable, because incognito never physically attacked Martin.

 

Who's to say he was trying to toughen him up? Maybe Icognito is just a dick. And I don't even get your second point. How many people have said Martin should have just sacked up and belted him. Act like a man, etc. If had, and ****ed Incognito up, would you approve? Understand?

 

I think you're a good 3 days behind on the info.

 

Yes, yes. Martin working the long con.....

 

Have they replaced Cogs on the leadership council yet? Serious question.

 

You also can't tell the cashier to lose 20 pounds so he looks better and attracts more customers. You can tell John jerry though. The NFL and your local department store aren't exactly the same.

 

No.

Its been reported that Incognito was asked to toughen up Martin. Its also been reported that evil VMs in question were a joke by Incognito and not only did Martin know that, but laughed about it and passed them around to laugh with everyone else.

 

Treating a person with respect and not making fun of them for a possible medical condition is "Special treatment" to you? You must be a truly terrible person.