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Darlington: Dolphins exploring trade for a running back

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Serpico Jones, Oct 15, 2013.

  1. Drowning

    Drowning ONCE MORE UNTO THE BREACH

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    We havent proven we can score on one play (but according to this forum Tannehil statistically can hit the deep ball accurately) and the Oline can go from monster to muah (yawn) faster than zero to sixty on a Skyline and the problem is the RB? When Bush was a monster here and EASILY discarded not just by Ireland but many of you ( :with a nerd accent of your own imagination: " hes just not an every down back."). Joke must be on Detroit. And the RB is the problem?

    I just started posting. Havent even checked the facts behind this thread. Haven't had the will to come on here after getting robbed vs Baltimore and still knowing we shouldve won regardless (was it 3 open touchdowns missed and me being right about Tanne and the long ball again or was it 4?) and the problem is the RB?

    "Okay. I reloaded!"

    We're at ridiculous again. Someone wake me before i lay me down to sleep. Kruger is on the loose this Hallow's eve.
     
  2. PhinsRDbest

    PhinsRDbest Transform and Transcend

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    the next dimension
    Would actually be kinda shocking them adding lineman that actually fit a zone blocking scheme.
     
  3. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    The Baltimore Ravens are not averse to big offensive line shakeups to try and get things jump started. They made a big one just prior to the playoffs and it got them a Super Bowl. Now they've acquired Eugene Monroe and that will relegate Bryant McKinnie to the bench.

    How do they feel about Michael Oher? He's in the last year of his contract. He's not grading particularly high at right tackle. They already were down on him enough to cancel his future as their franchise left tackle. At this point, are they even feeling he's worth blocking from a trade in order to keep playing right tackle?

    The Ravens have options at right tackle. Marshall Yanda can play right tackle or right guard. Kelechi Osemele played right tackle really well before they put him at left guard so they could move Oher back to right tackle.

    The question would be who the Ravens put in at left guard. The answer to that question depends on the reason they made the line shakeup they made prior to the 2012 playoffs. If it was because left guard Jah Reid wasn't cutting it, that's one thing. But if it's because they really wanted to move Michael Oher back to right tackle and get Bryant McKinnie in at left tackle, then maybe Jah Reid is still someone they would like to see get on the field.

    They tried A.Q. Shipley at left guard against the Dolphins and he was an unmitigated disaster. He could not hold up to Jared Odrick at all.
     
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  4. Ludacris

    Ludacris Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Texans don't run it anymore?
     
  5. KB21

    KB21 Almost Never Wrong Club Member

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    It is interesting that everything we have discussed on here when it comes to pass protection was talked about in Green Bay in 2009:

    http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/69820147.html

    Now this was an interesting blurb from an article that Chris Brown linked on his Smart Football website back in 2009. The article is no longer up, but he still has the quoted section:

    http://smartfootball.com/pass-prote...better-pass-protection-we-need-fewer-blockers

    I knew I remembered reading that one of the things the Packers did that helped their pass protection was spread the field more and give Rodgers more underneath options to get the ball out quicker rather than bringing a lot of extra men in to block. If Miami is looking to add a running back, they may be looking to add one that is more accomplished as a receiver than what we currently have.
     
  6. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    No they do, I think the statement was about the Dolphins. They run outside zone plays real bad.
     
  7. Ludacris

    Ludacris Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Yeah, it's like chasing leprechauns
     
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  8. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    Doug Martin. :shifty:

    Joique Bell isn't going anywhere. LeShoure is the guy they might be willing to move with Bush healthy and Bell solidifying the #2 spot.

    Andre Ellington is the back I wanted to replace Bush. He's got 356 total yards, 2 TD, and is averaging 7.0 YPC and 10.0 yards/catch.
     
  9. Bpk

    Bpk Premium Member Luxury Box

    That's pretty good... But not for six draft classes. Well.. Then again, a best-at-position Center, a solid above average WR, a potentially 8-12 TD H back, and QB w top ten potential.

    Not bad... Except two of these are still 'potentially'.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
     
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  10. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Interesting quotes.

    What I find interesting about the quote about keeping in less protection, is it came after only the second game of the season. If the theory was that they needed fewer backs and tight ends in for protection, and they tried that strategy out after that game, that theory may not have been completely correct. Rodgers went on to take 31 more sacks over the next 7 games after those two games against the Bears and Bengals. That includes an astounding 8 sacks a mere two weeks after those quotes, against the Minnesota Vikings.

    The other theory put forward is that Rodgers' focus may have shortened up. Unfortunately PFF wasn't tracking timing data for that season otherwise we could tell using that. However I will say I'm not necessarily a fan of using YPA as I think YPC is going to tell a cleaner story. In this case they talk about Rodgers shortening up his YPA against Minnesota and Tampa Bay in Weeks 8 and 9 but the man took 12 sacks in those games. So again, IF that was the case, that wasn't working either.

    There seems to be a pretty clear cutting point from where Rodgers was taking too many sacks to where he wasn't. He took 41 sacks through the first 9 games and only 8 sacks the last 7 games. His YPC only sank from 12.9 to 12.3 during those samples.

    Want to know something straight up eerie about all this?

    One of the things that people point to when they talk about how Ryan Tannehill is at fault for many of these sacks is the fact that his percentage of pressures turning into sacks is extremely high. Right now 34% of his pressures are sacks. That's WAY above normal (19%) for NFL quarterbacks. If you do the stat as a percentage like that, it's damn near 3 standard deviations above normal. If you do it as a ratio (pressured dropbacks divided by sacks) it's only 1.6 standard deviations off the population mean.

    Still, it's pretty out of whack.

    What was Aaron Rodgers' percentage through the first 5 games of the 2009 season when he took a whopping 25 sacks? That's right, it was 34%.

    Damn near exact.

    How often was Aaron Rodgers pressured through the first 5 games in 2009? About 36%. How often is Ryan Tannehill pressured through the first 5 games of 2013? About 34%.

    I guess the real question is...what changed? There's a pretty clear point of distinction in my opinion between the first 9 games of the season and the last 7 games of the regular season. Aaron Rodgers went from taking a sack on 32.5% of pressured dropbacks to taking a sack on only 11.3% of them.

    Was he scrambling more? No. He scrambled on 8.7% of pressured dropbacks in the first 9 games and only 8.5% of pressured dropbacks the last 7 games.

    Did he shorten up his focus? A little bit, but not a lot. He was at 12.9 yards per completion in the first 9 games and 12.3 yards per completion in the final 7 games.

    Did they have more players out on routes? Slightly. They had an average of 4.52 players out on routes per pass in the first 9 games, 4.65 in the last 7 games. But in a game with for example 42 pass plays (GB's average for the year), this translates only to about 5 more players running routes instead of staying in to block. Pretty negligible.

    Were they running the football more? Slightly. PFF recorded run blocking on 40.2% of plays in the first 9 games and 41.1% of plays the final 7 games.

    You know the only REAL difference I can find, aside from the simple fact that the quarterback wasn't getting sacked on a large percentage of his pressures anymore?

    The pass protection improved. Significantly.

    Aaron Rodgers was pressured on 34.8% of his dropbacks in the first 9 games but only 27.0% of his dropbacks in the final 7 games. That is a HUGE change.

    Chad Clifton took an injury in Game 2 of the season. He missed half that game, came back Game 5 and promptly missed two more games then came back Game 8 and started for the rest of the year at left tackle. So he missed 4.5 of those 9 games in question when Rodgers was taking so many sacks. T.J. Lang manned the left tackle position during some of those games. Others, Daryn Colledge moved over. Neither did well.

    Allen Barbre manned the right tackle position for the first 8 games of the season, and was first replaced by T.J. Lang in that 9th game. Mark Tauscher came back in at right tackle during the final 7 games of the season and just pass protected a whole lot better than Barbre and Lang.

    So essentially the good news is that IF there was something schematic that the Packers changed that resulted in Rodgers taking so many fewer sacks, Joe Philbin should be all over this. He was there. This whole situation is just ridiculously similar to what was happening back in 2009.

    The bad news is that the PRIMARY source of change that can be tracked is that the pass protection noticeably improved because the two tackles Chad Clifton and Mark Tauscher came back onto the field and performed a lot better than Daryn Colledge, T.J. Lang and Allen Barbre whom had all tried to replace those two during their prolonged absences. This is bad news for Miami because we don't HAVE any knights in shining armor ready to swoop in and save the day at tackle. We have Jonathan Martin and Tyson Clabo and the acquisitions market looks (right now) pretty slim.
     
  11. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    If your right, this sh&$ needs to be public knowledge..
     
  12. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Armando speculates that Donald Penn is someone he hopes we go after.
     
  13. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    And drafted in the 6th round. He's not a bruiser though, and even their coach has said he doesn't hold up to a full workload.
     
  14. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    And?
    a. what does 6th round have to do with it? <unless you're inferring it was a bargain>
    b. How many backs do handle a full workload nowadays? I was looking for a playmaking compliment to Miller.
    c. I don't understand the bruiser comment. Bush wasn't a bruiser, hence saying I wanted Ellington to replace him, not to necessarily fully replace Reggie's amount of touches but replace that type of dynamic player he was. Ellington however can pass protect and has 10 first downs on 25 carries. Meanwhile the 225 pound Rashard Mendenhall has 15 first downs on 79 carries.
     
  15. Jaj

    Jaj Registered

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    Who will be the man to sing this song to Ryan Tannehill?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XWHOF_0-6Hg

    Who will be his knight?
     
  16. Pandarilla

    Pandarilla Purist Emeritus

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    I hope Martin and Clabo attended some kind of peyote ceremony during the bye...shrooms, something

    Why does Barber's adagio play in my head when thinking about this O-line? Is that the theme from "Platoon" pads?
     
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  17. Califin

    Califin Well-Known Member

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    Whatever happened to Jorvorskie Lane?

    Missed the news regarding his quiet departure. Back home on the practice sofa?
     
  18. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Put the pitchfork down. I like Ellington, was agreeing with you, and was pointing out he went in the 6th. I.e. a bargain and we could have had him. The workload comment was more or less saying even if we did get him it'd be wise to pair him with a different style back still.

    I've already picked him up in 3 leagues for depth ;)
     
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  19. LBsFinest

    LBsFinest Banned

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    Desperation sinking in for Jeffy
     
  20. cdz12250

    cdz12250 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    It's called when the offensive line is not NFL ready and it's too late to do anything about it, what's the next best thing?
     
  21. Claymore95

    Claymore95 Working on it... Club Member

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    It was going so well, knew someone would break it...no surprise who really.
     
  22. Claymore95

    Claymore95 Working on it... Club Member

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    First name that came to mind when RB was mentioned was Ingram, as others have already mentioned. As Watkins and Austin have shown further this season, we like our reclamation projects, whether they work or not, and we have history when it comes to trading for New Orleans' reclamation runningbacks.
     
  23. PhinsRDbest

    PhinsRDbest Transform and Transcend

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    the next dimension
    Btw, if your gonna make a move wouldn't you want to do it at the start of your bye? So have two weeks to work the new piece?
     
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  24. Paul 13

    Paul 13 Chaotic Neutral & Unstable Genius Staff Member

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    one would think so however we barely practiced last week.
     
  25. SICK

    SICK Lounge Moderator

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    Still can get a playbook in his hand, get him acclimated.
     
  26. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Which part?
     
  27. Section126

    Section126 We are better than you. Luxury Box

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    he's god awful.
     
  28. Paul 13

    Paul 13 Chaotic Neutral & Unstable Genius Staff Member

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    bah... he has a 2.8 yard average. But his team is 3 and 1 since he started carrying the ball.
     
  29. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    I've watched all three of those games. He's not been very good. He looks his age. He looks like he's been out of football a while too.

    Better than Daniel Thomas though, obviously.
     
  30. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    If they are bringing in a RB, he's going to have to be a great pass protector.

    If you think Miami is investing much of anything in OL at this point, I'd like to sell you a timeshare.
     
  31. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    i would not mind ingram in Miami, loved him coming into the draft, the Texans are also ridiculously deep at Rb.

    To me, the teams most likely to make a deal for an OLmen would be say the Texans or Packers, teams that run similar offenses to shorten the learning curve.

    BUT, seeing as no deal has been made, there probably won't be one made, even though to me, James Casey makes a huge amount of sense, he is an afterthought in Philly (for good reason, Eifert and Celek come to mind) and our #2 Te may as well not be on the field in terms of any production at all, add in he can play legit Fb, he makes sense for us.
     
  32. Paul 13

    Paul 13 Chaotic Neutral & Unstable Genius Staff Member

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    The reason why I wanted a guy like McGahee at rb after the season started was not that he could be the guy carrying the load, but more as a veteran presence to help the young guys out.
     
  33. GARDENHEAD

    GARDENHEAD Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Mark Ingram

    Good News: The Saints would definitely trade him.
    Bad News: He's terrible. He's a Daniel Thomas clone, but with a First Round pedigree. Saints fans HATE the guy with good reason.
     
  34. ASOT

    ASOT New Member

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    Well can there be much argument there ?
     
  35. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    The process of elimination part was ridiculously deep, and for the Miami dolphin fan, it give you hope because of it..

    However, I can't believe there is some schematic secret their about to lay on us, the two book ends are just plain bad in space.

    There was one dept that the numbers didn't take into account, and that is a moving pocket right and left..

    That's the one area where both qbs are incredible at, and the one area that has been completely dormant in this years offense, and the one area that makes absolutely no sense considering the skillset of the Qb, and the problem staring at us. I don't care if it cuts off half his reads, he's good enough to read the play and pass or pick up 4 or five yards and slide, plus tiring the defense, and get them thinking on the next play to defend horizontally, all things that can slow the mentality of the defender from teeing off on a stationary pocket..

    Are their any stats that showed an increased number of boots and rollouts.?
     
  36. Vertical Limit

    Vertical Limit Senior Member

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    Anything is better than Daniel Thomas. I would rather ask Ricky to drop his assistant coaching job and come back to Miami than to give another carry to Daniel Thomas.
     
  37. Ohio Fanatic

    Ohio Fanatic Twuaddle or bust Club Member

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    exactly. Even if they wanted a 7th rounder for the guy, I'd hesitate to pull the trigger. Not that big of an upgrade over DThomas.
    the other question: what would people here give up to get either Pierre Thomas or Khiry Robinson (since they seem to have multiple good backs) or maybe one of the Green Bay backs like James Starks?
     
  38. GridIronKing34

    GridIronKing34 Silently Judging You

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    I doubt we would get a good deal on Thomas or Robinson.

    I would love to have PT23 to complement Lamar Miller but wishful thinking, IMO.
     
  39. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Also Ck, could there be a secret assault of the no huddle unleashed to help?...maybe they used the first month of the season to understand all their responsibilities, and it's go time... I mean we surely haven't seen such a hi tempo"d offense yet..maybe it gets turnt up a few notches.?
     
  40. Section126

    Section126 We are better than you. Luxury Box

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    There is one runningback that could be available that I would be very interested in.......

    Pierre Thomas.

    he complained rather loudly in the offseason about not being the featured back and he then re-signed anyway. The Saints love the Robinson Kid and Sproles gets all the third down snaps....so it's wishful thinking...but maybe?

    I would pay top dollar for him. I offer a third and force them to say No to me.
     

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