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Positives

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by anlgp, Sep 30, 2013.

  1. Dolphrank

    Dolphrank New Member

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    Wake up call. I hope it shows the players that they still have a lot of work to do. The Phins are a good team in the making...It doesn't happen overnight (often). Sometimes it's the losses you can take the most from.

    Going into NO and winning is a tough thing to do...Miami had the chances to be up going into halftime. If they went in up at the half, I think this game turns out a whole lot differently. The crowd would have been out of it and it may have affected the Saints approach to the 2nd half. Miami played well in the first half against a very good team in a very tough place to win and shot themselves in the foot. Need to preach ball security and we need to get some key players back from injury.

    Hopefully we can get a win v Bal next week and go into the bye at a very respectable 4-1. Oh and I'll tell ya what, if that game last night was played on grass...NO doesn't look like a world beater.
     
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  2. anlgp

    anlgp ↑ ↑ ↓ ↓ ← → ← → B A

    To those asking about the record, etc. I'm not saying I like the overall tone of the game and that we're obviously worse off record wise than we were before this game. That's what a loss does. It takes you down a notch. I'm just trying to put some perspective and positives into a game obviously filled with a lot of negatives. There's a lot I wish would have gone differently. I didn't think we were going to win this one before going into it.

    My whole point with this thread was to get everyone thinking about the good aspects of this young team that we haven't had in a long time. It's a new era with new things and new players and logos and everything else. The attitude has to come with that. After a quarter of the season at 3-1 I'm a pretty happy fins fan.

    There's no point in thinking negative about it (or anything else for that matter). It's all about perspective and expectations IMO. If we were 2-2 at this point I'd have been happy, as well. It's not that I expect mediocrity from the Dolphins, but I'm also a very realistic practical individual and we're a young team with a few glaring weaknesses, and I know teams will exploit those. We've now shown the other 30 teams that those needs are glaring and they will center on those.

    I'd be very surprised if the Ravens defense (what's left of it) isn't licking their chops right now at the thought of blowing through our pass pro and sacking Tannehill a few times, or letting their TE loose, or any number of other things.

    I do take the Gruden approach in breaking down the seasons into 4's, and after 4 we're 2nd in the division behind the Pats, and 9th in the league with our record. If you extrapolate that out over an entire season the final record of the year is 12-4. I'm not saying we'll get there, but that's the projection at this point, and that's a good expectation to have - it builds success (along with fixing those glaring issues)
     
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  3. Dolphrank

    Dolphrank New Member

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    The tide of that game completely changed with the INT Tanny threw before the half. Before that, it was a game.

    One problem I had last night was Wallace's hands. He gets paid way too much money to not come up with some of the balls he dropped last night. I know he will rebound, but we need him to be a baller when we are playing in big games like we were last night.
     
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  4. FinNasty

    FinNasty Alabama don’t want this... Staff Member Club Member

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    So, you feel all 3 of those INTs were on him and were poor decisions, huh?
     
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  5. Limbo

    Limbo Mad Stillz

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    I thought Tannehill played well overall. That int was a killer for the outcome of this game, but I thought in general his poise and presence was solid for a young guy on the road in that environment. I was encouraged by his performance, honestly.

    I thought Odrick and Gibson played very good games. Gibson continues to be a bright spot on this team; he and Clay are filling in the 'middle presence' really well with Keller gone. and the OLine opening running lanes like they were (particularly the left side) was very encouraging.
     
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  6. Gunner

    Gunner Rock Hunter

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    This is all true ... but how many of our remaining opponents have the personnel to exploit our weaknesses the way the Brees/Colston/Graham/Sproles four headed monster were able to? We all knew we had holes and issues. Our opponents all know we we had holes and issues, its been on game tape for all to see. IMO Saints, more than most, had the talent to exploit those weaknesses. Yes, this puts it all on display for the entire NFL to see, but they have been there for the most part in the preseason and first 3 games. We've all discussed them in these forums to some extent, but I feel like they didn't expose anything we ourselves haven't touched on in some context. If we mere average joe fans have seen it, then we can be pretty sure our opponents will have discussed it ad nauseam. We were far from a perfect team, we just finally ran into an opponent with the talent and ability to exploit those weaknesses. If anything I view it as a good thing because it should push our coaching staff to make some necessary adjustments going forward.
     
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  7. DolPhinPhan7

    DolPhinPhan7 Well-Known Member

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    It's Tannehill's fault mostly that game got away from the Phins. You could blame the dumb play calling on the first drive on 3rd and inches but the Saints didn't score again until after Tannehill's fumble. They were driving for the lead when he threw that first INT. Oh and WTF Wallace I counted 2 or 3 drops!!!! You can't give an offense like Nola that many opportunities to score.

    Wait this thread is about positives?

    I think the only positive we can take from this game is that no one and I do mean NO ONE had the Dolphins winning this game. If we were told by anyone that the Dolphins would go into the Ravens game 3-1 we'd all have popped a champagne cork. The schedule gets a lot easier from here and I don't see an offense as good as this on the Dolphins remaining schedule. They go back home and play a team that just threw 5 INTs to the Buffalo Bills. They have an opportunity to go into the Bye 4-1.
     
  8. Limbo

    Limbo Mad Stillz

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    On our schedule, the personnel mismatch teams that stack up with the Saints are the Pats and Bengals, imo. Gronk and Vereen, and Gresham/Eifert and Gio Bernard. Ray Rice is a handful but their TEs are garbage, Spiller's out of whack this year,

    I think the Saints present some unique problems for defenses. Other teams simply don't have the personnel to do what the Saints did. CK suggests that they took advantage of weaknesses that have always been there and are now exposed; I'd say that the Saints are uniquely well-equipped to do so with those two serious mismatch athletes in Graham and Sproles. Other teams can't match those weapons. It is concerning that the Saints beat us down like they did, but I don't think these problems will re-surface to the extent of last night.
     
  9. mbsinmisc

    mbsinmisc Season Ticket Holder

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    A little O/T, I wonder how many teams would have beat the Saints last night ? Maybe the Pats ? Seattle ? Colts ? 9er's ? I don't think it is a very long list. Fins up boys, fins up.
     
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  10. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Well, I hope Sherman now knows what Thigpen can do for the offense and he uses him more often.

    Was killing me last night to see Sproiles and know that Thigpen can do virtually the same stuff for us
     
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  11. Dolphrank

    Dolphrank New Member

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    I agree...If you have a player that fits that kind of mold why not utilize him? You saw first hand what a quick, shifty little back can do. Huge mismatches against LBs and Safeties.
     
  12. Trowa

    Trowa A world of pain

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    So, you're unable to discuss something without making assumptions about the other person's point and putting words in their mouth, huh? However you want to slice it, whomever you want to place the blame on, it boils down to our Quarterback has turned the ball over 8 times through 4 games this season and 25 times through 20 games in his career with 8 more fumbles not lost. That is a disturbing trend. But as I alluded to in my original post the bulk majority of this board will not say a bad thing about the teams QB even when he's playing poorly. Even when that QB was Chad Henne or John Beck or Matt Moore there's always enough excuses to go around on this forum to find everyone guilty of poor QB play except the QB.
     
  13. FinNasty

    FinNasty Alabama don’t want this... Staff Member Club Member

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    Easy there. I didn't try to put words in your mouth. That's why I asked you the question trying to get clarification on your stance regarding Tannehill's play.

    I do not think last night was a good game for Tannehill. On the flip side though I think he only made a few poor throws last night. 2 of the INTs, in terms of evaluating his individual performance, were not ones I'd knock him for (Wallace stops his route and the crazy tip drill happens... and the floater when he got hit at the end of the game).

    While the absolute numbers are not great (3 INTs)... evaluating a performance strictly on numbers w/o context is an incomplete picture.
     
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  14. Gunner

    Gunner Rock Hunter

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    Pretty much what I was saying in my post. Of the teams you mentioned I tend to want to throw out the Pats because none of their WRs cause the match up probs that Colston does. Bengals for sure until you get to QB Dalton who seems to be either really good or really bad one game to the next. The four guys the Saints run out there are elite (as a whole) than any other team on our schedule
     
  15. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    One sneaky positive that came out of last night was Marcus Thigpen's use on offense. It was a little shaky for at least one of the three snaps, but he was thrown to twice and produced a very big play on one of those attempts.

    This is the guy Miami has to start looking at to replace Daniel Thomas' role with the team in the passing attack. I don't know what his blocking his like, but he's dynamic enough that if you really need extra blockers you might look at how you can adjust in order to get what you need while still allowing him to get out there and run routes.

    And nobody should come out trying to tell me that can't be done. Darren Sproles has played 132 damn snaps this year, and only pass protected on 7 of them.
     
  16. Limbo

    Limbo Mad Stillz

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    Our RB situation on passing downs is interesting. Keeping them in to block hasn't gone all that well, as both Miller and DT are missing assignments or just getting beat in pass pro. I'm not saying they're totally useless, but when they're missing reads or getting blown up/beat anyway, I think we should consider using more 'chip to leak-out' kinds of things. I dunno, our pass pro just sucks, should probably explore some different schematic things or just hope these guys can turn it around with some RB/TE help.

    Pass-catching RBs make things very hard on a defense (as we saw last night, and this was the reason I really wanted Gio Bernard on the Phins) and may mitigate some of the aggressive LBs we're getting on the edge and up the middle. Guys like Sproles and Rice make you think twice about blitzing/spying the QB because with less bodies downfield these guys are deadly on quick dump-offs and usually just have to make one guy miss for a big play.

    I think DT was best suited for this as his feel for the passing game is pretty good, but he's really not a threat for an explosive play so defenses don't have to account for him much. Thigpen is that guy, though, if he can just get some blocking understanding down and get into the flow of this passing game. This is an untapped wrinkle so far this year, imo. But I think we'll see a lot more.
     
  17. Bpk

    Bpk Premium Member Luxury Box

    [​IMG]
     
  18. Bpk

    Bpk Premium Member Luxury Box

    If this became a major staple of the offense, the blowout loss would have been worth it.

    Don't see Sherman suddenly doing this.
     
  19. cuchulainn

    cuchulainn Táin Bó Cúailnge Club Member

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    People seem to forget that Brees threw 5 INTs in a division game against the Falcons just last season. Bad games happen to the best of QBs.

    Just glad this was the Saints, a non-division game for us. People would be hanging themselves from the rafters if this had been the Pats or stej...
     
  20. Bpk

    Bpk Premium Member Luxury Box


    Yeah. Tannehill has been very good. A one-off bad performance is not worrisome. If it became a trend, it would be.

    My main concern is that the accumulation of hits behind that O-line is starting to affect his emotional and mental functioning back there as a QB. If that's the case, then this O-line could literally ruin our best QB in twenty years.

    I don;t think that will happen... but mainly because to contemplate it is horrendous in it's implications.
     
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  21. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    I think people are getting distracted by the wrong things.

    Ryan Tannehill's first two turnovers were part of the problem. But the bigger problem was the defense acting like a sieve against the Saints' mismatch based offensive attack.

    After that, I don't care about Tannehill's final two interceptions. They were a non-factor. The game was already lost.

    So if we're going to sit here and say the Dolphins lost the game because of two turnovers over the first 36.5 minutes of the game, while the defense allowed a staggering 35 points while forcing zero turnovers of their own during that time, then I think people are getting distracted by the wrong things.
     
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  22. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Surrendering a 1st down off a 3rd & 20 is at least as devastating as any turnover.

    And the defense had plenty of opportunities over those first 36.5 minutes to force turnovers over their own to combat the two that the offense gave up.

    Don't eat the cheese on the turnover distraction.
     
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  23. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    How many of those points were because of turnovers, and how many points did we lose because of those turnovers?

    We were heading into halftime with either a 4 point deficit (if we stalled), 1 point deficit (FG), or 4 point lead (TD). There was only 1:33 left in the half, and it was first and ten.

    21 pts, 14 off turnovers at our own 40 yard line. I'd say pretty much those two turnovers lost the game for us. Could the defense have stopped them ? Yes. But they have enough on their plate with NO having an 80 yard field, not a 40 yard field. At that point in the game, by half, they kept NO to 14 points, 7 off of turnovers. I'd say that's pretty damn good.
     
  24. Paul 13

    Paul 13 Chaotic Neutral & Unstable Genius Staff Member

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    why can't it be a combination of the two? offensive mistakes and defense not getting off the field on third down... pretty much the definition of team loss.

    oh and how in the hell does Marcus Thigpen get caught from behind by a safety?
     
  25. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    It is. But our D was going to have fits with that Offense no matter what. Two turnovers on our side of the field doesn't make things better.

    Remember, before the INT to Hartline, we have the ball, with 1:33 seconds to go, down 14-10, 7 off of turnovers, and we get the ball back after the half. If you had asked anyone the day before the game if they liked that scenario, most people would say, hey not too bad, right?
     
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  26. jw3102

    jw3102 season ticket holder

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    Unless Brady is injured and out for the year, the Dolphins aren't winning either of those games. Brady will feast on the Dolphins secondary, just as he has for years.
     
  27. Limbo

    Limbo Mad Stillz

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    The defense had us in position to, at worst, be down 14-10 at halftime...and that's with a Tannehill turnover. Hell, it could've been 14-13 or even 17-14 if he doesn't throw that dumb pick. I'll take 14 halftime points against the Saints in the Superdome in primetime with a bad fumble included. Once we closed the gap to 14-10, guess what, the defense halted any Saints answer and got stops when we needed it to keep us in range. It's a whole different ballgame if we get the ball to start the 3rd and we're only down a score or even up. The turnovers were just bad mistakes on our part, too - not sliding or protecting the ball, then throwing blindly to the corner (on our own end).

    Even with all our mismatch problems, the defense had us in position to be in a one-score game (up or down) going into the half with the ball coming our way to start the third.
     
  28. PhillyPhin

    PhillyPhin Banned

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    Well, I can tell you the Baltimore Fans are calling for benching Joe Flacco, spying on their Forums. Their calls are not without merit, as many many many analyst have said Flacco is the most overrated QB in the NFL. I agree. Which bodes well for the Dolphins. Tannehill seems very much like a Joe Flacco, where he throws INT, fumbles a lot and get bailed out by a good defense. Just like the Dolphins have done with Tanny. Tanny can't win a game by himself (like going 30-42 420yd 4TD 0 Int) but he can manage a game to get Fins to a Superbowl like Flacco.....now about that Defense
     
  29. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    It is a combination of the two and that was the point I was arguing. The turnovers were costly. But you know what was JUST as costly as the two turnovers?

    1. A 48 yard wheel route to Darren Sproles where Reshad Jones took an atrocious angle in coverage
    2. A failed 3rd & Inches play inside the opponent 10 yard line that featured what most consider a bogus play call
    3. Surrendering a 1st down off 3rd & 20
    4. Surrendering a 13 yard touchdown off a 3rd & 11
    5. A one-play, 43 yard touchdown drive featuring a busted coverage on tight end Jimmy Graham

    There is no doubt about it, the two turnovers were costly plays. I think their cost is being OVERSTATED though in light of the simple fact that the defense allowed 35 points in the first 36.5 minutes of the game without forcing a turnover of their own.

    And let's not understate the effect of the latter. You EXPECT the offense to end up turning the football over once or twice in the game. Those turnovers are part of the game. You average about 1.5 a game. The Dolphins gave it up twice in that first 36.5 minutes. But they didn't get any takeaways to counter those turnovers, either.
     
  30. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    The thing that I absolutely do not understand whatsoever about this line of thinking that says that the Dolphins were set to be down 14-10 at halftime at the worst is the total disregard of how the Saints had already been chopping the defense to pieces during the game, and how they WENT ON to chop the defense into pieces during the game.

    It's almost like all of that magically would not have happened if there were no turnovers. It's as if the closer score would have erected golems that could match up with Darren Sproles and Jimmy Graham in coverage, and hexed Drew Brees into being a wholly different passer.

    People eating some cheese on this one, IMO.
     
  31. Limbo

    Limbo Mad Stillz

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    The defense forced 3 punts in the first half, much as you don't want to include that fact. Much as you want to make it sound ('chopping to pieces'), the Saints didn't score with every possession. Without Tanny's pick, that's 3 stops to 2 scores for our defense - and one of those scores came off Tanny's fumble. And I mean, the Saints averaged 29pts/gm last year, have an elite QB with one of the best playcallers, and were at home in primetime where that offense is known to be a buzzsaw.

    And yes, I think the team comes out of the locker room with a much different attitude if the score is 14-13 instead of 21-10. You're underestimating the big shifts of momentum that the home team can ride when you turn it over twice in the first half on their turf.
     
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  32. Frumundah Finnatic

    Frumundah Finnatic U Mad Miami?

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    What is getting lost in this game is that we ran the Pistol/Read Option pretty effectively. If nothing else its a new wrinkle to the offense.
     
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  33. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    That and Marcus Thigpen's impact are big takeaways. I firmly believe the Dolphins need to adapt if they want to keep winning and those can be part of that.
     
  34. vt_dolfan

    vt_dolfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    I do think we are slow to really utilize all the weapons at our disposal and I can't really figure out why. Thigpen should most Def be used more

    Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2
     
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  35. Frumundah Finnatic

    Frumundah Finnatic U Mad Miami?

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    Our OCs not throwing to HBs with good hands has been a little infuriating.
    We rarely threw to Reggie Bush
    We rarely threw to Ronnie Brown(except when Cam was here)
    We rarely threw to Ricky.
     
  36. Canad-phin

    Canad-phin Active Member

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    Here's the real question, what team doesn't show these weaknesses against the Saints? Seriously they ahve been in the top 5 in scoring for 6 or 7 years other than last year. They do this every week. Our offense had to score to win this game. That was the problem.
     
  37. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Not sure what your point is here. We were set to be at worst down 14-10. 1:33, 1st and 10 and the Saints weren't stopping the clock. We had just scored a TD, forced a 3 and out, had the ball again with 2:13 on the clock. Got a first down, now the clock is a 1:33 and running.

    If we score a TD we're up 17-14. If we move the ball we're down 1 point. They weren't chopping it up that bad. Yes two TDs up to that point, one off of a TO. Despite the fumble by Tannehill I think holding them to 14 while scoring 13 or 17 isn't bad. Not sure what angle you're trying to play here. Yes the defense gave up some boneheaded plays, but despite that we're in good position until a fumble and an INT by Tannehill in one half. Two TO's in one half is a very bad thing by your QB. One of them was a dagger in the heart. Feeling good about halftime and then BAM. INT. Drew Brees at the 22 yard line. 7 points.

    With offenses like theirs you can only wish to contain them. Out of 5 drives they had two TDs and three punts. We unraveled after the INT before the half. Like I said, a dagger through the team. You're arguing people are overblaming those turnovers but you're underblaming them. You expect the defense to give up points to the Saints. You don't expect 2 TO's in a half by your QB. That's 4 a game, 64 a year. By your QB.
     
  38. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I disagree, Welker brings a dimension to an offense that is unmatched, we should be able to cover their receivers..
     
  39. miamiron

    miamiron There's always next year

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    You forgot 53 sacks
     
  40. Gunner

    Gunner Rock Hunter

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    Yes, of course everyone shows weaknesses to their offense, that isn't my point. My reply was to the idea that the Saints had exposed our weaknesses for everyone to see. My contention though is that those weaknesses were all ready there ... we've all seen and discussed them in these forums since the start of mini camp through 3 regular season games. The only difference is that the Saints were able to exploit them in a more efficient way because of the talent level players. Something I feel will be difficult for other teams to emulate because the other teams don't have the talent level of the Saints, but also because we can now make adjustments.
     

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