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Lets talk Tannehill

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by djphinfan, Aug 10, 2013.

  1. invid

    invid Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Wasn't accusing you, DJ.

    Just saw where this thread is going.
     
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  2. GridIronKing34

    GridIronKing34 Silently Judging You

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    You also gotta remember that this is basically a brand new starting offense to him. Lots of chemistry to be built this preseason!

    Returning starters outside of Tannehill? Hartline, Incognito, and Pouncey. That's a lot of turnover!
     
  3. Disnardo

    Disnardo Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Than I stand corrected... my apologies Rick...
     
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  4. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Gotcha, yeah I'm sure some will come in with their long term prognostications, but I'm trying to just understand what Disnardo said and really try to understand if that unfamiliarity (lack of total Qb reps)is totally related to the weaknesses that I see, then as we go just see where his ceiling actually is..
     
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  5. unifiedtheory

    unifiedtheory Sub Pending Luxury Box

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    If Ryan Tannehill turns into Joe Flacco I will be ELATED. That will mean he is close to elite.
     
  6. Mainge

    Mainge Season Ticket Holder

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    I was a little encouraged by his 3rd drive but he was rough yesterday. I'm not sure I'm buying the excuses, roster turnover and early sack. In fact, I'd think I'd be more worried about him if those things (especially the sack) really did rattle him, instead of things being just a little too sped up for him.

    I'm not down on him yet. It's still early; he's played the equivalent of a full quarter. No one should be losing their **** after a single rough quarter, but that doesn't mean we have to candy coat everything either.
     
  7. invid

    invid Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Tannehill:







    http://www.thefinsiders.com/blog/2013/tannehill-its-just-a-building-block
     
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  8. unifiedtheory

    unifiedtheory Sub Pending Luxury Box

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    But when you start a thread about any player you will have the critics crawl out of the woodwork.

    Christ, Joe Flacco STILL gets piled on regularly. People need to take a look at Flacco's numbers, especially his PLAYOFF numbers and what he does in the clutch. Like I said above, if Ryan Tannehill turns into Joe Flacco everyone on this board should be elated.

    I can't name 5 QB's in the league I take over Flacco (and here come the lists). I'll save you some time, if your "list" of guys you would take over Flacco include any of the following: Colin Kaepernick, Bob Griffin, Russell Wilson, Eli Manning or Matt Ryan I'm ignoring your list because it is incorrect and irrelevant.

    1.) Aaron Rodgers
    2.) Tom Brady
    3.) Peyton Manning
    4.) Drew Brees
    5.) Joe Flacco
    6.) Andrew Luck
    7.) Big Ben
    8.) Eli Manning
    9.) Matt Ryan
    10.) Russell Wilson

    That is ELITE company. If Tanny gets into that stratosphere I can't see any logical person having any reason too be disappointed....but I'm certain someone will find a way.
     
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  9. Anonymous

    Anonymous Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    What if you don't see Flacco as elite? You're not automatically correct in your assessment. Flacco had a great run with Caldwell. If he can keep that up, then I can see him in that company. Until then, I don't see him as elite.
     
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  10. Ohio Fanatic

    Ohio Fanatic Twuaddle or bust Club Member

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    not comparing him to Favre, but Favre used to always be the same way at the beginning of many of his games. always seem to take him a drive or two to get into his rhythm.
     
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  11. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Exactly, think most of it is Dolfans are just used to Qb's not panning out so that is the attitude many take "..oh..he's not going to pan out..."

    To me, one thing that does bother me is the "star Wr" fallacy, by now we should just accept the Qb makes the Wr, Wallace and Gibson and Keller will make things easier but the Qb still has to deliver the ball.
     
  12. bbqpitlover

    bbqpitlover Well-Known Member

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    What I am seeing with Tannehill is his biggest he had last year, steering down and locking down on a receiver. I has plays last night where receivers were wide open but he never looked of his receiver and try to stick it into tight coverage. Im not 100% convinced he knows how to read defenses. Im hoping Im wrong but when regular season starts we cant come out flat on offense like we have seen so far. Im not saying its all his fault as the offensive line does not protect him, but Tann cant just keep holding onto the ball and acting like he is scared.
     
  13. Rick 1966

    Rick 1966 Professional Hipshooter

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    Flacco only had 16 games as a starter?
     
  14. Fame

    Fame Well-Known Member

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    Tannehill showed me flashes of greatness last year which leads me to believe that eventually, if he reaches his ceiling, he will be a consistently great QB. He made a ton of throws last year that made me audibly say "wow". Of course, he hasn't yet managed to hold on to that for an entire quarter or entire game. But the talent is there. He just needs the experience.

    That is something I can honestly say I haven't felt about any Dolphins QB in the last decade.
     
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  15. Disnardo

    Disnardo Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Sorry Rick, was not thinking of Flaco... was thinking of Thill...

    My Bad...
     
  16. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Lol, I agree with you on Flacco, always have..have been defending that dudes skillset since he came out..think your on point, but it still seems some folks still don't get it..Flacco sees everything in slow motion, you can see how he uses shoulder fakes, how his feet are incredibly relaxed in the pocket, and how he maneuvers in a pocket to reset..like I said he's a great Qb.

    I haven't see anyone say that wouldn't be happy with that ceiling, if they did, not sure I could trust their eye very much personally.
     
  17. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I thought the question posed was would you be happy with flaccos ceiling for Tannehill..I think that's an easy answer.
     
  18. Anonymous

    Anonymous Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Oh yea, definitely. Especially with Tannehill's ability to run, he would be a franchise QB. In fact, it would be hard to be disappointed with Tannehill if he were similar to Flacco before the hiring of Caldwell. He was still a good QB then.

    I was just saying that, IMO, he's not elite right now. I want to give him one more full season under Caldwell before I throw him in with the elite. That was specifically general QB talk.
     
  19. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    If I was starting a franchise today, and had to take into account age, he's one of the elites imo.
     
  20. Anonymous

    Anonymous Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    He would be one of the 10 QBs I would want, if I had to take age into account. That doesn't make him elite, IMO.
     
  21. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    The elite term to me is top 5 at the position, so we disagree there.
     
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  22. Coral Reefer

    Coral Reefer Premium Member

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    Wow.... you had to go there?

    Bum you and I generally mesh on viewpoints but this one we couldn't be farther apart.
    I don't at all get you guys that knock Marino.
    As if he was really a piece of those teams that was holding us back? Really? Can you really say that?
    Blows me away.
    The guy literally carried the team when he was in his prime.
    If we had had a GM things would have been much different.

    As for Tannehill, the book is not finished being written.
    We'll see. He has the tools. Will he be able to learn the game and develop the quick decision making to get to the elite level?
    Time will tell.
     
  23. Disnardo

    Disnardo Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    JW if you consider Thill as a mediocre starting QB what would you consider Sanchez to be??? Just curious because IMO, a mediocre QB is one that has trouble managing the game, not average nor satisfactory...

    mediocre in dictionary term is this... 1. of only ordinary or moderate quality; neither good nor bad; barely adequate: 2. not satisfactory; poor; inferior.

    So is Thill our Sanchize in your opinion??? Cause I see a big difference between both players... Even using Thill's rookie year in comparison to Sanchez's 4 years NFL experience as a starter...
     
  24. finwin

    finwin Active Member

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    My biggest knock on Tannehill is his accuracy and ball placement is erratic. He throws low a lot and he still has rookie feet in that he doesn't set on many throws. My second biggest concern he is too conservative. I saw it again yesterday, on the TD drive when he thew left for about 10 yards to Hartline, there was another open receiver in the frame that was open 10 yards further down field. I'm like good, you got a decent gain and perhaps a first down, but folks he's leaving a lot on the table by not looking at the whole field and taking some shots.
     
  25. 72 Dolphins

    72 Dolphins New Member

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    Tannehill is in his fourth year as a QB...EVER. Two years in college and starting his 2nd year here in the NFL. Can we really expect more than what were getting at this point?

    It certainly doesn't help that his O-Line has been porus. Tannehill's fragile status is the main reason I contest that Dion Jordan over Lane Johnson was a bad pick. It is a long shot that Tannehill becomes an elite NFL QB to begin with, and now you have just stacked the deck against him.

    I understand that Ireland might have thought he had Brandon Albert in tow and I get that a talent like Dion Jordan couldn't be missed, effectively extending the ressurection of this franchise out another season.

    "The games are won in the trenches" A truer statement was never spoken. Dallas great teams of the 90's The Dolphins undefeated 72 team and Superbowl Champion 73 team and countless other examples of Superbowl Champions all had GREAT O-Lines.

    Tannehill has enough on his plate with just becoming a viable NFL QB without having to sweat running for his life versus good D-Lines.

    Give the kid a break...while those that say he hasn't displayed "greatness" qualities yet, may have a valid case...the deck is stacked against him.

    If Tannehill does become great one day, it won't be this season. Lets be fair, consider all the intangibles and look for realistic expectations.

    If Tannehill puts his QB rating in the 80's and has more TD's than INT's this season, considering all that is against him, I think everyone should consider that excellent and that just maybe, given a line next year, we may just yet have our franchise QB.

    For this season....So goes the Defense and Running Game - So goes the Dolphins. Don't look for Tannehill to bring you back down 21, I believe it is asking to much.
     
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  26. cuchulainn

    cuchulainn Táin Bó Cúailnge Club Member

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    Can Johnson play Guard? JK... but this is spilt milk. JMartin at LT has been among the LEAST problematic of our OLine woes the past 2 games. Martin was drafted to eventually replace Long and did. We have to know what we have there before we toss him aside and spend a first round pick on a tackle.

    Also, there is no way that DJordan was a bad pick. If you don't like him or consider him worth it, then fine. We lost several games last season due to kicking and defensive letdowns. Wake needed a compliment and we got the best available.

    Agree on this being another learning season for Tannehill, but I think next season is when he leads the Fins into the playoffs. This season is about building on last season and adjusting to the new playmakers.
     
  27. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    This I disagree with, a guy can play or they can't.

    Keller on that tremendous thrown and catch for example, he's been here a few short months and made a play happen, this to me is the standard.

    And once again..there it is.."time to gel"

    I've heard that for literal years now, it never pans out.

    :jump:
     
  28. Clark Kent

    Clark Kent Fighter of the Nightman

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    I think you're being dramatic.

    Dion Jordan is a much better prospect than Lane Johnson, IMO. If Jordan reaches his full potential, the guy is going to cause massive destruction. A great DE adds more to an entire unit than a great OT. Especially when our defensive unit already has the best passer in the NFL, in Cam Wake. Imagine having Cam Wake and Jason Taylor playing together in their prime... We may get something close to that. If we do, it'll be massive destruction week in and out for opposing QB's.

    You have no idea how good or bad the offensive line is at this point. It's the first week of pre-season... The line settled down after a rough start and played pretty well by all accounts. Given the amount shuffling taking place during camp so far, it's not far fetched that they need time to settle into their permanent roles and gel. They have three more weeks and three more pre-season games to do so.

    Jonathan Martin could very well be a quality left tackle. Maybe not elite, but a quality one. Which is all you need. Teams with "elite" LT's (and their bloated contracts eating cap space) aren't tearing up the league. A franchise LT means nothing. In fact, I'm not sure if it ever did... More of a myth than anything else. Can we stop with "sky is falling" bull**** with JMart? If he doesn't show marked improvement throughout the season, then we can draft/sign/trade for one next season.

    Referencing the 72 dolphins and the early 90's cowboys isn't a very good comparison. The league has evolved and changed drastically since then. Those era's are irrelevant with anything happening in 2013.

    When did Tannehill become "fragile?" Ryan Tannehill played pretty well under the blitz according to PFF, IIRC. I don't think the "deck is stacked" against him at all. He, like every other QB in the NFL, is going to face some adversity playing the position.
     
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  29. 72 Dolphins

    72 Dolphins New Member

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    Anyone that says Dion Jordan is a much better talent is going strictly off his physical potential. The Dolphins drafted him, he is now a Dolphin, and that means he is great.

    I sometimes loathe this Fan-ATIC mentality.

    Jarvis Jones had DOUBLE the tackles as Jordan - Jarvis Jones had DOUBLE the sacks as Jordan - Jarvis Jones caused TWICE the turnovers as Jordan...
    AND ...Jarvis Jones played in TWICE the conference as Jordan. On top of that, you didn't have to dump a 2nd round pick to get him.

    Dion Jordan was drafted on Physical potential alone, even coming off major shoulder surgery. To say that this pick was a high risk gamble is an understatement.

    You'll never sell me that Dion Jordan was the right pick for this 2013 team. That being said, when he starts putting up double digit sack seasons....well, but damn he better considering.

    In my opinion Jarvis Jones > Dion Jordan and will have the better NFL career.
     
  30. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    Martin is a returning starter,
    and Clay started more often than not.
     
  31. Vinny Fins

    Vinny Fins Feisty Brooklyn dolfan ️‍

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    I'll ask this simply:

    Can he make every throw, physically?

    Is he mobile enough to survive in today's NFL?

    Does he command the respect of the huddle and by extension the lockerroom?

    Does he protect the ball on the run and not force it in to trap coverages?

    If the answers to these 4 questions are YES, and I feel they are... He is your guy to develop and be the QB here for a decade.

    It's that simple.
     
  32. PlanB

    PlanB New Member

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    I believe Elite should be a Top Ten designation. And I do not believe Tanny is there ...........YET. He will break the Top 10 this season or the next. Top five is for very special people. But you do not need to be in the Top 5 to win a superbowl . And that's the goal. We had the Best QB in the NFL for many seasons, and he never got the Ring. Tanny has what it takes to get that done. Hopefully Philbin and Ireland give him what he needs to accomplish that.
     
  33. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

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    I think that RT needs to become more decisive early. I would probably start the game with a couple of plays where he has to move, a read-option, a moving pocket something like that. I do believe that his experience is what holds him back. I've said since the beginning that I don't expect he'll be reaching his peak until year 4 or 5. I do think he'll be a good QB this year and next, but he probably won't be great until at least year 4. I am not as high on Flacco as some here. I would have him as about a top 10 QB. And for me that elite group cut off is about top 5. I do think that RT's ceiling is higher than Flacco's.

    In this game, I was disappointed that RT didn't anticipate some of the situations. I saw the same things that Invid mentioned earlier in this thread. I could forgive the first sack as Samuda whiffed badly and that hit came quick. He did have Miller in the flat and Clay in the middle though. On the second one he had Wallace breaking open on the crossing route. That seemed like the kind of play Big Ben would have made. There were opportunities that a more experienced QB could have capitalized on. I did love the TD pass. That was the kind of aggressive throw that you see elite QBs make. It was clearly aimed behind the LB's head. It was put in a place where only his target had a chance to get it. That's a tough throw on the run into a small window.
     
  34. Kingtut561

    Kingtut561 New Member

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    Yep!
     
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  35. TooGoodForDez

    TooGoodForDez Deion Sanders for GM

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    No, that's why he should not be starting in the NFL.
     
  36. 77FinFan

    77FinFan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I wd be happy w/ this too. Wd love to see him put up 2:1 TD's to INT's, but if he is close and does some other things well I will be happy and looking forward to next year. Right now I'm pretty damn excited about this year. Going to be plenty of playmakers to watch.
     
  37. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Special payers=elite...not top 10.. But it's cool, we all have our way of interpreting the word I suppose..
     
  38. 72 Dolphins

    72 Dolphins New Member

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    I'm not going to say I don't agree with you. I will say that the front office, coaching staff, and the rest of the organization is committed to this guy going forward, as well as the majority of the fan base. Does this make it the right choice, No, but it is the support the guy needs to get where he is trying to bring us all.

    Personally, I hated the pick, especially a Top 10 pick, but it is where we are and going forward I would rather focus on how we can improve then to try and bring down the overall momentum behind this guy. The front office loves him, the coaching staff seems to believe in him, and the fan base is certainly behind him.

    Jim McMahon won a superbowl ...applying the associative rules for mathematics...

    And hey...math never lies.

    GO DOLPHINS!
     
  39. Perfectville_USA

    Perfectville_USA Mr Perfect

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    We should have drafted Lane Johnson, I lose more faith in Martin each day.
     
  40. 72 Dolphins

    72 Dolphins New Member

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    Lane Johnson: Rated 92 (Drafted 4th overall by the Eagles making LT 3 of the first 4 picks)
    (Thats due to the fact that NFL GM's severely overrate the position - NOT)


    Analysis


    Strengths

    Uses his athleticism well, displaying good foot quickness to mirror pass rushers off the edge to deny them the corner and adjust to their inside moves. Easily reaches second-level targets when pulled outside or stepping up in the box, and sustains the block. Generally plays with good pad level and balance despite his height, and can fire out from a three-point stance and generate a bit of push on run plays. Johnson's feet keep moving through initial contact, allowing him to get into the correct blocking angle while engaged. He also uses his hands and length well to maintain distance with the defender. NFL coaches will like that he plays with an attitude, looks willing to hand-fight with defensive ends, usually lands multiple strong punches, and will consistently finish blocks with a strong-arm extension.
     

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