Ok no seriously....let's stop the oline panic..

He's the left tackle and he's going against one of the least efficient pass rushers in the league from a year ago, and a rookie. He shouldn't NEED backs to come chip his man for him.

Again, the numbers of sacks that we're talking about here run pretty roughshod over the "we need a context" argument. Statistically speaking the league average for tackles is about 95 non-sack pass reps for every 1 sack. He let up 4 just today, let up at least 2 to Dion Jordan yesterday, and another 2 to Dion Jordan in the scrimmage...and I'm going to go out on a limb and say he didn't take 760 pass reps in those three practices.

He's obviously struggling. And to a degree that will make it not matter even if he were the best run blocker in football (which he's not). He's got to shape up. Pure and simple. I don't sense anyone in the Dolphins front office actually formulated a Plan B, but at this rate the Dolphins brain trust will think of one all the same. At this rate, Dallas Thomas is starting before mid-year.

 

Thank you for injecting a little common sense (context) into the thread. It's like people don't understand what training camp is for.

 

LOL. At this rate Will Davis will be an All-Pro this season.

I think you're struggling to understand the difference between practices, scrimmages, and actual games.

In a practice, coaches purposely put a players into adverse situations in order to test them and/or prepare them for the real deal. Goal line, red zone, 3rd down, blitz pickup, etc, all designed to put pressure on one group or another.

That's not to say Martin isn't struggling, maybe he is. I dunno and neither does anyone else who isn't at practice watching him day in and day out. When the games start we'll all get to see where he's at. Till then all of this is noise IMO. And yes, that includes the "sacks" he allowed while in helmets, shirts and shorts today.


Since when did we start counting those?

 

From all the reports Martin is just being atheltically whipped whether its Jordan's speed or Vernon's bull rush.

 

LB you still loathing that "terrible" Will Davis pick ? I know, it's just preseason. But that's what this is about!

 

If any Olineman is getting beat multiple times in practice by multiple players, than that can interfere with quality work getting done.

 

That's just ray-ciss.



There is cause for concern for the o-line. No panics yet. But it's definitely something we have to keep an eye on.

 

he had a 5th round grade, trading up into the 3rd to take him over a receiver was still a mistake in my eyes.

he was Ireland's annual head-scratching reach, joining the likes of Misi, Edds, Murphy, Daniel Thomas, Pat White, and Egnew.

 

If you're freaking out about Martin before we even play a single preseason snap, you might want to go outside or consider taking up a hobby.

 

I've come to the realization that people like you are under some crazy assumption that Martin will be in a solo 1v1 matchup against an elite pash rusher EVERY play of EVERY game with no help from other players, scheme or anything else. Like if they are in some bubble 1v1 fight. That's not how it works now, or ever. A twitter post says he got beat by a bull rush and you start losing your mind, FFS.

But I know, since Ireland picked him he's awful. Just like every other player Ireland has ever acquired. I mean the guy hasn't picked up 1 talented player on this team. Not 1. Which sucks because every other GM makes zero mistakes and only picks ups up HOFers.

 

Samuda isn't Samoan

 

Perhaps, we should view the OL situation as a positive sign. The team has made a transition from heavily investing in the OL to skill players. Moreover, it may indicate confidence that they have a QB can overcome negative plays.

Average players 'clutch and grab', which for a OL can lead to a 10 yard penalty. This negative play is less harmful to a game's result then when a 'clutch and grab' foul is called in basketball and hockey. Although a 10 yard offensive penalty was a drive killer for the past few seasons, including Pennington's; Tannehill with receivers makes regaining the 10 yard a much more realistic possibility.

Miami is investing its resources with skilled, attacking players. Such players can make big plays that put points on the board that actually win games, which OL cannot do. The goal for the OL should be to play as an unit, avoid false starts, and missed assignments, which seems to be happening. Finally, with multiple skilled flag-drawing receivers and pass rushers, Miami still has a good chance to win the game's penalty battle.

 

This is my hobby!

*turns car on and closes the garage*

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 4 Beta

 

I'm perplexed by the "he hasn't even taken a pre-season/regular season game snap yet, so cool it with the criticism" attitude.

The best predictor of future behavior is past behavior. Jonathan Martin was relatively awful last year. He graded out among the wost tackles in the league.

The reports out of camp are that the struggles are continuing just the same, and we're supposed to:
A)assume this will suddenly change in the next 37 days even though the poor performances of the past 270 days roll on
B) rest assured that it's only August 1st
C) not bring it up on a discussion board meant to discuss just these sorts of things?

In fact, I'd say it's a safer bet that Martin struggles this year rather than plays average to above average.

LBsFinest, though sometimes teetering the line of pessimism, had a good topic for a thread yesterday (Plan B if Martin's play this year is equivalent to last year) and got crushed for it.

To conclude:
Jonathin Martin's struggles are a prime topic for a Dolphin fan message board
No, it's certainly NOT overreacting to be thinking of a plan B if by week 4 or 5 he's playing like he did last season. I'm pretty sure it HAS crossed the coaching staff's minds.
The constant use of a TE or RB to assist Martin may constrain this offense more than it has to be.

 

I've been worried since we drafted him, last year didn't help, but I'm willing to give him til Sunday nite to see if any improvements were made before I criticize again.

 

I'm not panicking. Definitely concerned. Even if the reports out of camp about Martin were positive I'd be concerned.....unfortunately they're not.

 

Martin was late to camp last year and was trying to learn a new position on the fly. He was bad at RT, but it was trial by fire. He got his *** handed to him last season at RT, no question, but he looked much better the final few games at LT.

This season he is back at his natural LT position, he has worked on his upper body strength and his conditioning all off-season, and he also has a full camp and pre-season to improve. Tough for him that he also has to go up against our Dline and pass rushers, who I think are going to eat QBs alive this year and make a lot of tackles look bad. I am glad he is getting his *** kicked right now. As for Jordan occassionally beating him, Jordan should be able to do so at times as he was best defensive player in the draft and we took him for this very reason.

The way I see it, the more our Defense beats on Martin in camp, the better he will be when it matters. I look forward to seeing how he performs this coming Sunday night.

 

I know he was born in England but I assumed he was of Samoan descent.

 

But we should be lining up the replacement now in preparation for poor start to the season. Planning ahead.

I agree to start him. But the staff needs to be prepared for poor play based on last season and this TC (basically all of the NFL action Martin has been a part of).

I guess what I'm trying to say is that assuming Martin can even be average or serviceable at this point is being blindly optimistic

 

I don't agree that expecting improvement from Martin is blindly optimistic. I saw a report earlier (from Phinsider, I think) that showed he graded out much better as a run blocker over the last 5 games after his switch to LT. That's not unexpected, but the point is that the OMG he's such a liability that we're doomed line of thinking is greatly overblown. (The grades were either from PFF or Football Outsiders) IIRC his grades there were good or very good in 4/5 and bad in one. In pass pro he struggled where he was only good in 1/5. But in an offense I expect to be run-centric and more quick pass adept due to improved targets I just don't think he'll be expected to work on an island against the best pass rushers or block them for very long on the vast majority of plays. IMO the impact of having one below average o-lineman is not that big even if it were to occur. And frankly that would probably still net us an o-line that was top half in the league if RT and Miller progress as expected. Also in my experience if an o-lineman gets to the point where he's at least decent as a run blocker, his pass pro tends improve shortly after as well. I don't know if that's b/c it makes the d-lineman hesitate more often or if it's just a result of the d-lineman getting beat on more in the run game, but whatever the reason the pass pro tends to be less of a liability. So I don't see expecting Martin's pass pro to improve as blind faith but rather just the expected norm.

 

Just looking at his pix, I assume he isn't.

 

I loved him when he got his eyebrows shaved last year..lol..took it like a man..

 

Jim? Jim Turner? Is that you?

 

Swedish?

 

He didn't say Martin can't improve...he said assuming Martin can be average is being blindly optimistic, and you can argue he's right because right now this guy is a world away from being average. He is BAD right now. He's not even below average, he's terrible.

 

I have found the phinsider stuff to be completely unreliable, and frankly so campy and cheesy that it's usually hard to stomach.

Profootballfocu.coms had him scoring the absolute worst possible in two games in december in the run blocking category. I think it was called atrocious or something like that.

The really troubling thing about examining Martins performance last year was that he showed no improvement over the year and certainly did not play better at LT in either run blocking or pass blocking.

In 4 games in december he gave up 17 hurries. Remember, he lead the league in that department last year.

Jonathan Martin as mediocre or average is a freaking fairy tale; clear evidence of denial, and obvious blind optimism.

Remember he was 76th out of 80 OT's last year and he didn't show improvement over the course of the year.

On the other hand, look at Bobbie Massie. He gave up 4 sacks to wake in week 6 last year and was summarily abused early on, but went on to dramatically improve over the course of the year and was generally thought of as AZ's best OL down the stretch. Here is a guy who actually deserved to have first shot at starting but the Cardinals signed Eric Winston anyway. Very wise IMO, and this was mostly at RT.

As far as all this hooey I keep hearing about how one bad OL guy isn't going to bring down a team...............................HTH can you so quickly forget Marc Colombo!!!!!!!!

and Colombo was a better run blocker than Martin and he didn't lead the NFL in QB hurries!!

Get real guys, last year this OL was ranked from 17th to 26th depending on who ranked them as far as I have seen, that isn't good. It deserved far more attention that it got.

Ireland is an idiot.

 

yea Martin getting better last year after switching to the left side might be the biggest myth on this entire board. Didn't matter which side he was on, he got owned period.

 

I was reading this thinking, "alright these are fair points" then I reached your final line which pretty much negated all that. The sudden drop off amused me, so I made a graphic representation of your post.

 

Personally, I don't see why its to early to be concerned... panic.. I guess its to early for that, sure... but to be concerned about the LT position, its not to early at all. There's a difference between concern and panic, and to really sit here and argue over the line between the two is kind of silly.

How can anyone not be concerned. We know how awful Martin was last year. We've all read the reports so far of how awful he's been in camp. That's plenty of cause for concern already. I don't think at all it's too early to be concerned. Sure we have 5 preseason games to go, but we've seen no indications so far that he's improved. At least relying on the information we have from TC reports. Everyone who looks at this team from a subjective standpoint is concerned with our LT position. Why shouldn't some fans be? Are some over concerned? Yeah... maybe. However, everyone reacts to things differently, nobody can control that...

Some people like me are cautiously concerned, to me hopefully he improves in game action. That being said, I'd rather see him improve, not us help him by altering our scheme and dedicating a TE, or back to help him. That just hinders the potential explosiveness of the offense. On the other hand some people think its over for us already at LT... that may very well be true, but everyone can have their own opinion on that...

 

I would agree but only to the extent that if Martin really is that bad it means there is no way to tell if Vernon/Jordan are really that good or just that good against Martin. Live bullets should tell us more.

 

I get what you're saying. Totally. You can't change how other people are going to react though. Putting myself in the shoes of the people you say are in a panic over this... I can totally get it. There's no indications so far that Martin can be average. He wasn't last year, and all reports this year at that he's been just as dreadful, if not worse. So... I can see why for some that would cause panic.

For people like me, and probably you, we can rationalize it... Hope that he improves in the next week or two or three. That's fine too. There's nothing wrong with either reaction in this case IMO, because the writing is on the wall with Martin. It wasnt good last year, it was documented everywhere in the media that it's a risky choice relying on Martin at LT (probably over exposed due to the fact that we lost Jake Long as well), and it's been well documented and seen my many supposedly that he's struggling in camp. To me, the reaction around here is what we should expect. There's alot of hype around our offense, particularly the passing game. The guy on the OL you're supposed to rely on most for pass blocking against the defenses #1 pass rusher, is getting beat regularly. It either says alot about our front 7 on the D, or it says alot about Martin himself. Given the history last year, its safe to assume its mostly on Martin.

Is there a chance to improve for Martin.... sure. Is there a chance he's awful... yup. Either way people are going to react how their personality tells them to. That can't be changed.

Again, i understand what your talking about between concern and panic... but at the end of the day who cares?

As for whats wrong with waiting for a few preseason games to evaluate Martin... to me? Absolutely nothing. To others, alot, because they feel they already know its not goign to work for him, and it's too late likely to find a replacement. It's just an effect of reality setting in, and the hype fading away for some as a result of reality setting in.

Anyways, not trying to argue... I agree with your stance to an extent, but I agree with those having legitimate concerns over Martin, the panic might be to far... sure, but thats out of our control.

 

What ?? Exactly what indications are there that he's less than average or better than average ?? Because he's been beaten a few times in camp against this d ?? That's a bunch of bunk....Until we see these guys against someone else or even against each other in live contact, how can we actually tell...except thru OmarK and Mando ?? Give me a break.

How great was Roberto Wallace or Legadu Nanee doing last year when they were going to take Bess's spot on the outside (that coincidentally never happened)? They were doing so great in TC that everyone had one of them on the outside opposite Hartline....How'd that work out ??

Before we claim the 'sky is falling' lets see some live contact with the line steadied... This is TC-mania gone wild...

 

I don't see what was so confusing about what I said. He can improve but probably not enough to become average by the start of the season.

 

I see what your saying, lets not panic over this position, get our panties all in a wad, every team has it's issues at certain positions, so lets keep some perspective relative to great direction were seemingly going in.

Some of us can compartmentalize, I can be concerned (not panicked) with Martin and still appreciate the direction were going in, my concerns are well documented, but from what were hearing out of practice I think it's only natural to be concerned about what Ryan Tannehill thinks about his left tackle and whether that can impede a qbs development.

 

You're right, and I think most people are concerned about Martin. If you recall I wanted to go all in on the OLine in the draft, Cooper or Warmack plus Johnson or Watson, trading up if necessary, while most of the board was clamoring for Tavon Austin, Cordarelle Patterson, Tyler Eifert, etc. So I find it amusing when, a week into camp, people are complaining that we have O line issues. And it's not that there's no reason to be concerned, but it's pretty obvious to me that we have a few guys, the usual suspects, who like to read media and twitter reports from clueless reporters and then come to the board and beat their chests like they know something every one else doesn't.