http://phinphanatic.com/2013/07/25/dolphins-kevin-coyle-a-happy-camper/ Exciting little article, talked about how The dolphins felt that Vontae and smith were sluggish and not instinctive in zone coverage, how Coyle prefers quick twitch athletes that can break on the ball. Talks about how so far, the defense looks like a machine.. I do think Ireland's strengths as a GM are on the defensive side of the ball.. I think with Grimes, Ellerbe, and Wheeler were better than last year, when you think about adding a player with the talent of Dion Jordan, we might be even underrating our own defense.. ???. How does playing zone coverage in the back end coincide with pressuring with your front 7?, I would think the opposite, if your gonna blitz a lot, wouldn't you wanna play more man to man? I think those Pittsburgh corners all those years where they dominated were mostly zone guys no? Coyle is a lebeau disciple.. Give me a good running game, a great defense, a deep threat who can create space for others, and a Qb who can get the ball to his weapons without making a lot of mistakes, one who can run and pass, or just run for a First down, and I like that recipe, I think that's what we have the makings of...a good balanced football team, not some hi powered flashy get fans to attend BS..
When most teams change regimes, it usually follows that they have a significant turnover and rebuild of the schemes (both O and D) in the first year. We didn't see that here. They took time to evaluate who they had where and what those players were in respect for what they envision for each player. It was kind of an evaluation period, so to speak. This year has been the big year for turnover and rebuild of the team. We could see at a minimum of 9 new or different starters and as many as a potential of 4 or 5 more across the board. 3-6 of those potential changes are on D... Additionally, not only do we have the stalwart DL (Soliai, Starks, Odrick, Wake) but our packages look to be even better with VO and Jordan, not to mention the depth we have built up in that particular position with guys like Martin, Rhandall and Shelby, among others... The LBers are a bit of an enigma at this point. Wheeler and Ellerbe will fit better into what Coyle wants in his D, but we could have some drop off in coverage. Offenses will attack that. The pressure from the DL will play a big part into how much we miss the coverage ability edge that Burnett/Dansby had over this pair. Misi has quietly shown that he has what it takes. He's not a superstar, but he's been much more solid than generally given credit for. The secondary, even with just the addition of Grimes looks to be head and shoulders better than it was. Marshall didn't get his feet wet before the injury bug hit him last year so we have that potential to look forward to, but Grimes is certainly better than any DB not named Surtain we've seen here in a long time. Jones should solidify himself as a stud S this year, building off of last season. Clemons was much improved the second half of the year last year. Carroll's name has been mentioned as improved. We might get to see what McCray has to offer as well as Wilson and Patterson to the secondary... Sprinkle in some Davis and Taylor and you've got a recipe for success. Not all these guys will be here come Sept, but there is still reason for optimism given the additions, improved players and scheme familiarity. There is no doubt that the overall starting and backup talent has improved in this team, as well as some specific areas of improvement. The biggest key will still be the continued improvement of Tanny, but this D could be something special, as it has been in the past...
IMO it's easier to break on the ball if you're playing zone or off man. You usually have some time with your eyes in the backfield or on the receiver where you can read the play/route and jump it. And if it's an errant pass caused by the pass rush you're less likely to have your back to the QB (and obviously more likely to see it and make a play on the ball).
True, and I think you just have to be a smarter football payer, more instinctive one, it does seem like Vontae and Sean's skillset was not condusive to playing zone like Coyle wants..grimes I know does, jamar does as well..
I think you'll see some similarities. More 3-3 and 2-4 Nickel packages, more mixing between edge defenders and linebackers in coverage. Maybe more aggressive play from Reshad Jones. They've been pretty candid about continuing to be more of a man coverage team though.
1) Vontae was not physically sluggish and had amazing break on the ball. Coaching staff probably disliked sluggishness coming from a mental part of his game, perhaps causing hesitation. 2) Ireland grew up around the legendary Bears defense. I'm sure it got in his bones a little bit. 3) Offense can carry a defense easier than a defense can carry an offense. The reason being, a bad offense puts the D out there far too quickly and for too long, wearing them out.
Exactly what I meant when it comes to Vontae, he was such an explosive athlete, but like you said, when in zone, if your not smart enough at the position, the explosiveness gets curbed.its really two different kinds of play mentality wise, two different mental skillsets. That good zone corner understands spacing concepts, can read qbs and cover space at the same time.
I'm thinking we have the personnel to run a 4-3 look of the 4-6 defense, with Odrick and Starks in the middle, Wake and Vernon on the outsides (esp since Vern can drop and cover if needed). Rashad drops down near the LOS, Ellerbe-Wheeler-Dion Jordan round it out. Rashad or Jordan positioned to cover any TE. That's when the opponent has 2 WRs. In a 3 WR look, you can risk leaving that alignment out there and putting Dion on the slot IF the slot receiver is not a pure mismatch like Amendola or a very small quick guy. That formation would make it easy to blitz, and very hard to run. It is more a man cover than a zone cover alignment, I'd think, plus you REALLY have to trust your corners with only Clemons high.
My perception (correct me if I am wrong).... is that these are your coverage options if playing as a high-pressure front 7: - Aggressive press man. Depend on the jam leaving the QB NOWHERE to go with the ball in the short time he has. But if your CBs (MArshall) miss the jam, you're burnt for a chunk play. I would use this on a third and short where you want to strangle the LOS and not even allow a short slant. - Umbrella/soft zone to minimize the bleeding if the blitz doesn't get there. So a decent cushion, conceding a 5 yard comppletion but not allowing time for any more to develop thanks to the blitz. I would use this on 3rd and 7 or longer.
I think Coyle is more along the lines of running Bear fronts,with the Center and both Guards covered by linemen. That always made more sense out of 3-4 packages to me, otherwise you've got a size mismatch in the middle.
My only issue with that is it doesn't, imo, maximize our best defesnive player, Cam Wake. He either ends up eating blocks as a 2 or 3 technique, or relegated to coverage and more of an outside linebacker role. He is not ideal as either. I could see SOME 3 fronts with Odrick-Soliai-Starks up front (or Vaughn Martin for Odrick to save Odie for pass rush inside) on 1st downs. Probably start Wake with his hand in the dirt but stand him up near the snap or off the snap, putting him off the tackle. That, imo, maximizes Wheeler and Ellerbe's abilities inside and let's Dion jordan loose as an OLB, which I think is his best fit on 1st downs (but in a 3-4 scheme). The question is, is what you lose from Wake being played sub-optimally outweighed by other players like Jordan being played perhaps more optimally. I don't think so.
Where are you guys getting this, I'm pretty sure Dick LeBeau hired Kevin Coyle to his first NFL job to coach cornerbacks in 2001.
You are right. I was wrong. LeBeau's last season in Cincy was 2002 and Coyle was hired in 2001. So there was a 2 season overlap. I had it in my head that LeBeau left after the season before Coyle was hired.
I agree with #3 alot. As far as Zone coverage and A strong pass rush will prevent the big play better... but I don't like zone coverage or Corners playing 10 yards off a receiver. That's an automatic 3rd down conversion if you don't challenge the receiver and play way off. I hate that scheme. We get picked appart.
This. Way back in Coyles introductory presser, he said his defense was influenced by 4 guys. We know 3 of them to this point to be Mike Zimmer, Marvin Lewis, and Dick LeBeau.
BPK, just some thoughts on your post. Cameron Wake most likely will never be in a 2 or 3 technique in this defense. Ever. You could theoretically run a 3-4 front and still have Wake's hand in the dirt. I think at that point it's more about what's more comfortable to him. He played with his hand on the ground plenty in Mike Nolan's 3-4 D. That eventually ended up looking more like an Under front, which is similar to some of the fronts Miami plays now. You can still operate Wake as is, and have 2 OLBs rushing off the edge if you throw in those looks. It's like the Steelers with Harrison and Woodley. Given Jordan's athleticism and abilities in coverage, he's going to be more apt to drop back than Wake. Wake did it very seldom last year (Jacksonville game). I'd imagine if Miami is running a true 3-4 front, Jordan's going to be the guy going in reverse. Not Wake.
That being said, I'm pretty sure guys like William Gay, Ike Taylor and Mccfadden weren't man to man corners.?
Just me personally, the part of the defense I think Coyle has borrowed from LeBeau has more to do with how Miami plays Reshad Jones, and how they align the defense, than the CBs; much like how Cincinnati played Reggie Nelson when Coyle was in Cincinnati. I think more what he's done with the CBs is what he did in Cincinnati under Mike Zimmer. As far as the LeBeau part, what I think he's done is take the "Eagle Defense" principle, or at least elements of it (made famous by Bill Dooley at Virginia Tech). It was originally a 50 defense principle (3-4) to my knowlege, that basically allowed you to align your "Eagle DE" (best pass-rusher), "Eagle LB" (most athletic inside LB), and your "Eagle" (playmaking Safety) all on the same side of the field, regardless of the strength of the offense. Miami did this a lot down the stretch last year with Wake, Burnett, and Jones. I expect we see it again with Wake, Wheeler, and Jones this year. With the way defenses are more interchangeable these days, for example, Miami's defense incorporates a lot of 3-4 personnel into 4-3 looks/fronts (like Seattle and Baltimore) the "Eagle" has become more of a widespread principle. Obviously, with Troy Polamalu's instincts, he's taken it to another level when healthy. It certainly did a lot for Reshad Jones last year if in fact that's what Coyle's borrowed from LeBeau.
To quote Deion Sanders, "Both!" I think in sub-package situations he can line up either or, whatever's more comfortable to him. He's said in multiple interviews (PFW Draft Preview, NFL Radio Preview, etc.) that he prefers to play standing up. Obviously at Oregon he played in 2 and 3 point stances. I'd assume he'd do that in Miami as well depending on if they line him up as a DE or as a LB.
Cb is still our weakness, but not only has it been greatly improved... We don't have to worry about Welker,Hernandez,Keller shredding our lack of depth in the short/intermediates.
I wonder if the 4th is a non-defensive coach that had an influence with game management. Football has become more like basketball. The latest crossover is that more and more games come down to the final possessions. The ability to rest players as well as flood the field with athletic 250 lb defenders seems to improve a defense's capability to make critical, end-of-game stops. Last season, Sherman had Tannehill start the 2 minute offense with 4 minutes remaining in the half. I assumed this was to assist Ryan's development to run the offense with less clock pressure. Perhaps, the team is trying to gain a 2 for 1 possession advantage. Or trying to have the 2 minute defense gain some experience and evaluate how defenders handled the pressure.
The problem with that train of thought is that Welker, Hernandez and Keller were not covered by CBs... In general it was the lbers or S's that covered those guys...
