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If Brian Urlacher gets into the HoF, shouldnt Zach Thomas get in also?

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Frumundah Finnatic, May 22, 2013.

  1. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    That and your role on the team. You can't sack the quarterback if you're not blitzing. Zach Thomas wasn't a blitzer. But he had a lot of TFLs anyway. And those that point out that Urlacher had more coverage responsibility are correct.
     
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  2. FinSane

    FinSane Cynical Dolphins Fan

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    I remember reading back when Urlacher first came into the league that he based his game off of watching Zach play. He was one of his favorite players to watch. Explains why he picked 54, no?
     
  3. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    You could talk about what a great linebacker Zach would be if he had Urlacher's physical gifts but it's equally significant to talk about what a great linebacker Urlacher would be if he had Zach's instincts.
     
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  4. Firesole

    Firesole Season Ticket Holder

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    I didn't know ZT had more tackles than any LB in the HOF currently. Is that true?

    Its crazy to see how many more tackles ZT had compared to Urlacher in basically the same amount of games, almost 400 more.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
     
  5. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Keep in mind that tackle numbers haven't always been statistically tracked very reliably or centrally. I remember back in the 90's when teams were tracking them individually. There were years when the team disagreed with the NFL's tackle counts by quite a bit. They had Zach with some 200+ tackle seasons.
     
  6. maynard

    maynard Who, whom?

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    All-pro selections are the most important stat, imo
     
  7. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    They're a pretty powerful one for sure. Both players played 13 seasons but Zach took All Pro honors in 7 of those and Urlacher only 5. And more of Zach's were 1st team too.
     
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  8. TotoreMexico

    TotoreMexico Your retarded

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    Peyton Manning agrees...

    http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1112557/2/index.htm
     
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  9. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    That's a big one in Zach's favor, for sure. Peyton could be the best QB of all time.
     
  10. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Of course. Point being, if you were really good at getting after the QB, that would probably be your role. I don't remember clearly but I recall Zach not being the best in coverage. The height can really help there with the long arms too for a short distance.

    I don't think the Dolphins were hiding an effective pass rusher back there. If you can get at the QB best believe most coaches will have you do that, sacks being so valuable $$$ wise.
     
  11. Boik14

    Boik14 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    One thing that will weigh heavily is that dpoy for urlacher. Very few OPOY or DPOY winners dont get in as long as they sustained success and a solid career. Its almost the equivalent of 500 home runs or 3000 hits where its almost automatic. Id put big money getting in just based on that.
     
  12. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Blitzing your mike linebacker isn't so much about talent. It's about scheme. If your scheme doesn't afford it then you don't do it. Miami didn't run a scheme that afforded it.

    To me blitzing ability on a middle linebacker is as ornamental as nipples on a breastplate (/Game of Thrones).
     
  13. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    How many All Decade players don't end up getting in?

    (serious question)
     
  14. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    more than you would think actually, especially for 2nd Team which Zach is.
     
  15. 54Fins

    54Fins "In Gase we trust"

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    over there

    Still wishing Kuechenberg get's in some how. Sometimes the HOF has their own criteria when it comes to certain players/ positions IMO.
     
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  16. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    That could ding Zach as well- the fact the HOF selection committee has already voted Urlacher (and Derrick Brooks & Ray Lewis) ahead of Zach for 1st Team 2000 All Decade honors.
     
  17. Boik14

    Boik14 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    never really researched that. Im sure theres a good percentage of all decade players in as well
     
  18. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Here's the 2000's All Decade Team. Some of these won't make the Hall of Fame but I think most of the ones who don't play positions where too many were let on the team (like HB), or unimportant positions (like FB or STs).

    QB: Tom Brady, Peyton Manning
    HB: Edgerrin James, LaDainian Tomlinson, Shaun Alexander, Jamal Lewis
    FB: Lorenzo Neal, Tony Richardson
    WR: Marvin Harrison, Randy Moss, Torry Holt, Terrell Owens
    TE: Tony Gonzalez, Antonio Gates
    OT: Walter Jones, Jon Ogden, Orlando Pace, Willie Roaf
    OG: Alan Faneca, Steve Hutchinson, Larry Allen, Will Shields
    OC: Kevin Mawae

    DT: Warren Sapp, Richard Seymour, Le'Roi Glover, Kevin Williams
    DE: Dwight Freeney, Michael Strahan, Julius Peppers, Jason Taylor
    OLB: Derrick Brooks, Brian Urlacher, Joey Porter, DeMarcus Ware
    MLB: Ray Lewis, Zach Thomas
    CB: Champ Bailey, Charles Woodson, Ronde Barber, Ty Law
    S: Brian Dawkins, Ed Reed, Troy Polamalu, Darren Sharper

    Personally I think there are too many halfbacks on that team. I can see why you put four wide receivers in but four tailbacks? Not sure why. You literally end up with 12 first team All Decade players on offense and that makes no sense. The two should be Edgerrin James and LaDainian Tomlinson. I'm not even going to consider Shaun Alexander and Jamal Lewis to be on the team.

    Otherwise, 4 of the 6 players that are on this list that have already been eligible for induction into the Hall of Fame, have been inducted. They are Jon Ogden, Warren Sapp, Willie Roaf and Larry Allen. The two that have not been inducted yet have been finalists and are considered only a matter of time, those being Michael Strahan (1x Finalist) and Will Shields (2x Finalist).

    Next year 2014 will be interesting because Derrick Brooks, Le'Roi Glover, Zach Thomas and Marvin Harrison all become eligible for the first time.

    From the 1990's team again they had four tailbacks in there but probably only three were worthy (Barry Sanders, Emmitt Smith and Thurman Thomas). All three of those were inducted but the fourth Terrell Davis hasn't even been up for it. Tim Brown is a 4-Time Finalist and will be in eventually. Aeneas Williams and Kevin Greene are 2-Time Finalists. I think they'l get in.

    A number of things are working against Ben Coates. First off he's a tight end. Second, he didn't have a long career...just 10 years. Third, the decorations might not be there...2x All Pro, 5x Pro Bowl. Tony Boselli only played 7 years. He burned bright, but burned out quick. Levon Kirkland shouldn't even be on the team. He's a 2x Pro Bowler.

    As for Richmond Webb, Neil Smith, Steve Wisniewski, Mark Stepnoski, Bryant Young, Hardy Nickerson, Cornelius Bennett, Steve Atwater, LeRoy Butler and Carnell Lake...can't say what the holdup is on those guys. Some of them really stand out. I think Richmond Webb should definitely get in and Wisniewski shouldn't even be a question at this point. The other guys are deserving as well.
     
  19. Sceeto

    Sceeto Well-Known Member

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    Wasn't aware of this one. That's an amazing stat. :up:




    Also amazing:
     
  20. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    There's a discernable difference between 1st & 2nd Team All Decade members when it comes to the likelihood of making the HOF. Only 8 1st Teamers from the 70's, 80's, and 90's failed to make it, compared to 34 2nd Teamers, 33 if you omit Favre.
     
  21. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Is there a reference list for all AP All Pros over time?

    I'm just curious how many 5x First Team All Pros aren't in the Hall of Fame.

    That seems like a big number.
     
  22. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    Who are they?
     
  23. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Since the Associated Press began voting on a All Pro team in 1965, only 23 players in the NFL have been voted 1st Team All Pro more times than Zach Thomas. Not counting special teams.

    That's it. Only 23 players have been on it 6 or more times. Zach Thomas was 1st Team All Pro 5 times.

    J. Rice 10
    Anthony Muñoz 9
    Bruce Smith 8
    Lawrence Taylor 8
    Reggie White 8
    Bruce Matthews 7
    John Hannah 7
    Mike Singletary 7
    Randall McDaniel 7
    Randy White 7
    Ray Lewis 7
    Alan Faneca 6
    B. Sanders 6
    Bob Lilly 6
    Dermontti Dawson 6
    Jack Ham 6
    Jack Lambert 6
    John Randle 6
    Junior Seau 6
    Larry Allen 6
    P. Manning 6
    Ron Yary 6
    Ronnie Lott 6
    Zach Thomas 5
    Alan Page 5
    Bob Brown 5
    C. Johnson 5
    Carl Eller 5
    Chuck Howley 5
    Deacon Jones 5
    Deion Sanders 5
    Derrick Brooks 5
    Dick Butkus 5
    E. Dickerson 5
    Ed Reed 5
    G. Sayers 5
    Jack Youngblood 5
    Kevin Williams 5
    Larry Little 5
    Larry Wilson 5
    Merlin Olsen 5
    Mike Webster 5
    O.J. Simpson 5
    Patrick Willis 5
    Rod Woodson 5
    Steve Hutchinson 5
    T. Gonzalez 5
    T. Owens 5
    W. Payton 5
     
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  24. 54Fins

    54Fins "In Gase we trust"

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    over there
    Although I feel Brooks is a great LB, his supporting cast also helped make that D dominant for many years.
    If he makes it in "before" Zach, I'll **** myself.
     
  25. Aquafin

    Aquafin New Member

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    this angers me because the hall of fame people all seem to be anti dolphins but why cant we get Zach , and the marks brothers in the hall of fame they deserve it just as much as the next player.
     
  26. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    I don't think they are Anti-Dolphin.

    It is a huge uphill battle for Mark brothers. It is hard for wide receivers to make it in without superbowls and lots of stats.
     
  27. Sceeto

    Sceeto Well-Known Member

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    Yep! Just that much more amazing. :up:
     
  28. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    Kevin Greene
    Junior Seau (but will make it)
    Steve Atwater
    LeRoy Butler
    Jimbo Covert
    Kenny Easley
    Drew Pearson
    Cliff Harris
     
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  29. unifiedtheory

    unifiedtheory Sub Pending Luxury Box

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    If Urlacher is a "first ballot" HOFer (which I've heard 100 times today) then so is Zach Thomas.
     
  30. rumple

    rumple Mr Negative

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    Zach Thomas was so slow and overrated, no chance at hall of fame.
     
  31. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    You're slow and overrated and I hope you're raped by goats with daddy issues and devil may care attitudes.
     
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  32. Frumundah Finnatic

    Frumundah Finnatic U Mad Miami?

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    Look how long it took for Cris Carter to get in.
     
  33. VanDolPhan

    VanDolPhan Club member Club Member

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    I don't know if we will ever see a better sideline to sideline guy then Zach. It was always amazing how he would beat the OLB to a tackle that should have been from them. He was truly a LB that actually got into offenses heads.
     
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  34. finfansince72

    finfansince72 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Id vote for both of them first ballot personally, I think both get in eventually.
     
  35. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Quite possibly faster than any other linebacker in his era at reading his keys..

    I'm not saying anything here, but this is the type of game Ellerbe plays, he reads his keys and runs like a bat out of hell at his target.
     
  36. Da 'Fins

    Da 'Fins Season Ticket Holder Staff Member Club Member

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    I think Zach deserves it ahead of Urlacher. Urlacher was very, very good. But, I think his size and the team he was on made a big difference.

    Although for me, I think Zach is borderline and so is Urlacher (from a purist standpoint). From a reality standpoint, I think Urlacher would have a stronger vote just because of the publicity of playing for the Bears and in Chicago.

    But I don't think he was that great in the past few seasons. And I think Zach was a slightly better player.
     
  37. seabass0795

    seabass0795 New Member

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    That and he is also the best QB when it comes to changing the play at the line and reading defenses. Zach outsmarting Peyton is just that much more amazing
     
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  38. maynard

    maynard Who, whom?

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    this would put me over if I was unsure.

    He was objectively (as close as you are going to get) the best player at his position for 5 years. It puts him in ridiculous company

    All pros are gold to me

    This list says far more to me than career tackles

    Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 2
     
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  39. Jt0323

    Jt0323 Fins Up! Luxury Box

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  40. Ohio Fanatic

    Ohio Fanatic Twuaddle or bust Club Member

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    that's assuming that if Zach were as physically gifted as Urlacher with size and speed that he would have worked just as hard to prove himself and developed the mental aspect of the game as much as he did. IMO, Zach developed the mental part of his game and refined his instincts because of his lack of size and speed.
     

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