Ask PFF who the best D-End in football is?

Agreed. Odrick has been a solid player all the way around.

And it's not uncommon for people who only watch what's happening around the ball to never "get it".

 

I believe the terms you used were "DE", "useless", "bust" and "no talent", none of which are correct, and he's certainly not a backup. I assume the verbal assault is due to his struggles rushing the passer, as if DT's who can move outside and wreak havoc from the DE position are common place.

 

You don't want to to upgrade at DT? I do.
Interior pressure is huge. Odrick doesn't get it done in this front seven.
Sure he may stick around for a while maybe.

 

Only problem with that is that even with that vert, his dong still doesn't get off the ground.

Sent from my Transformer TF101 using Tapatalk 2

 

You are clueless, PERIOD. From that 28th spot until our second round pick at 40, Odrick was and still is the best player available.

It shows some ignorance on your part that to this day you STILL cease to acknowledge the defense we operate and role our RDE plays despite an abundance of educational posts created to steer you in the proper direction. It really is a true testament to your hatred of Ireland, lack of acceptance of our defensive scheme, and desire to find any means to criticize a pick that merits no criticism whatsoever.

The ONLY problem with Odrick at RDE was our dearth of pass rushers forcing Coyle to use Odrick in additional roles he's not properly suited for like lining up at 7 technique as a pass rusher. Odrick doesn't deserve to be knocked for that; that's a knock on our prior lack of personnel. Now that we have Dion Jordan, Odrick can perform his specific role as more of a 3-4/closed end who reduces down to defensive tackle (which Disgustipate has properly described ad nauseam b/c posters like yourself repeatedly let it go in one ear and out the other). There's not a goddam thing wrong with Odrick in this role; in fact he's quite good at it. There's no reason to replace him unless we have a chance to draft an even more athletic big man to occupy that jumbo right end role and move Odrick inside to replace one of our free agent defensive tackles.

Again, try for once to comprehend this---- we. do. not. run. a. traditional. 4-3... so stop treating Odrick as if he's inadequate just b/c he's not a great pass rusher. THAT'S NOT HIS F***ING ROLE!!!!!

Here, choke on this for a bit.
From what I could gather, here's the combined 2011/12 sack leaders at 3-4 end/4-3 closed end:
1. JJ Watt- 26 (All Pro 1st team)
2. Calais Campbell- 14.5 (future All Pro)
3. Antonio Smith- 13.5 (2x Pro Bowl 2011,'12; took him 7 years to reach this level)
4. Jared Odrick- 11
4. Carlos Dunlap- 11
6. Justin Smith- 10.5 (future HOFer, 2012 SB team)
7. Haloti Ngata- 10 (5 straight All Pro, 2012 SB champ)
8. Cullen Jenkins- 9.5 (SB Champ)
9. Cameron Jordan- 9 (1st rounder)
10. Ray McDonald- 8 (2012 SB team)
10. Muhammed Wilkerson- 8 (1st rounder)
12. Brett Kiesel- 7.5 (Pro Bowler, 2x SB champ)
12. Pernell McPhee- 7.5 (2012 SB champ)
Other notables:
Randy Starks- 10 (in 2009-10 when he was a Pro Bowl 3-4 RDE)
Adam Carriker- 5 (mid 1st rounder)
Robert Ayers- 5 (mid 1st round)
Evander Hood- 4 (late 1st round)
Tyson Jackson- 4 (high 1st round)
Cameron Heyward- 2.5 (late 1st round)
Kentwan Balmer- 0 (late 1st round)
Glenn Dorsey- 0 (high 1st round)

Suck it.

 

On top of ranking 4th in sacks, Odrick has been a strong contributor to one of the league's stingiest run defenses, allowing a mere 3.85 yards/carry and 18 total TDs the past 2 years, plus ranked third best in 1st down conversion% allowed at 18.3% (compared to the league worst Bills at 28.9%).

Yeah what a bum Odrick is!!! Strong vs the run and 4th best in sacks. Fire him!! FIRE HIM!!

 

Damnit people, don't make Todd angry. You wouldn't like him when he's angry.

 

Upgrade how, bring Jerome Brown and Russel Maryland back from the dead? B/c it doesn't get much better than Soliai and Starks, with a 3rd guy in Odrick who's a starter for most teams, coming in to back them up. Todd and DPate are very bright football people and have already explained Odrick's role in this front seven, if you choose to ignore them then that's your bad.

 

ROARRRR. lol.

Currently from what I can see, within the confines of our defensive scheme, there's only one reason to replace Odrick next year (IE: move him inside): draft Notre Dame's Stephon Tuitt. Perhaps Florida's Dominique Easley or Bama's Jeoffrey Pagan creep into the converstation, too.

 

Agree to disagree. Odrick more than got it done in his role, especially in relation to the rest of the players league-wide performing a similar role. It's not Odrick's fault we didn't have a solid #2 pass rusher to allow Odrick to consistently reduce down to defensive tackle in nickel, so I'm not sure why you're blaming him for this.

Secondly, I don't understand your assertion that Odrick isn't capable of adequate interior pressure or that we have a problem with ours.
Here are the DT sack leaders the past 2 years, with Odrick added in for comparison.
1. Geno Atkins- 20 (1st team AP)
2. Ndamokong Suh- 12 (#2 overall pick)
3. Jared Odrick- 11
3. Marcell Dareus- 11 (#3 overall pick)
5. Randy Starks- 9
5. Wallace Gilberry- 9 (strictly a nickel DT pass rush specialist)
5. Tommy Kelly- 9
5. Richard Seymour- 9
9. Dwan Edwards- 8.5
10. Desmond Bryant- 8
11. Chris Canty- 7
11. Ahtyba Rubin- 7
11. Kevin Williams- 7
14. Nick Fairley- 6.5 (13th pick of 2011)
14. Vince Wilfork- 6.5
16. Tyson Alualu- 6 (10th pick of 2010)
16. Linvall Joseph- 6
16. Gerald McCoy- 6. (#3 pick of 2010, top 100 player of 2012)
19. Jurrell Casey- 5.5
19. Barry Cofield- 5.5
19. Fletcher Cox- 5.5 (12th pick of 2012)
22. Amobi Akoye- 5
22. Kyle Williams- 5 (2x Pro Bowl)

Odrick at RDE in base and reducing down to DT in nickel isn't a problem. Not even close. Starks' position is what will need to be addressed if he either signs elsewhere or shows evidence of wear & tear.

 

Keep in mind, in 2011 when Odrick was strictly reserved to 3-4 end & nickel DT (similar to his current role), he had 6 sacks in just 7 starts. Anyone who thinks that's an issue is out of his friggin' mind.

That's the role he should've been in last year, but our lack of pass rushers saw Odrick spending time rushing the QB off the edge. Unfortunately, that took away from his strength as an interior rusher, so it's easy to see why his sacks dipped a smidge; HOWEVER, it is a testament to his ability as an interior pressure guy that he could line up at friggin 7 technique at 6'5, 300 pounds. Now that we won't need him rushing off the edge (thanks to Jordan's addition), he'll be able to spend more pass rush time inside the tackles in nickel, and in turn we could conceivably see him hit 7+ sacks this year and potential top 5 sack guy among 3-4 ends/4-3 closed ends.

Not to mention, we currently have a rookie tweener at rush linebacker in Jordan, so having a jumbo right end like Odrick shielding him should be welcomed with open arms, duh.

 

Or he could move inside full time to replace Starks while Jordan takes over as the starting RDE. I don't think the coaches will be able to keep DJ as a backup for long.

 

Worked pretty well for the 49ers, eh?

 

Odrick ranked 61st of 64 starting De's in the league in passrushing efficiency per PFF.

INOW, for all of the time spent on the field, vs the 2nd weakest offensive lineman in giving up pressure (Right Tackle) and such production is satisfactory for some?

Alright.

 

I half-forgot it until I was looking at some rewind from 2011 for some reason, but Odrick played wide a lot previously. He might have played more wide snaps wide than heads up on the tackle and inside. He went the opposite way of most guys his size, too, going from a 3-4 DE to a Nickel rush DE and was on the field more pass rush snaps than anything.

I'd love to see PFF or someone else do a good breakdown on defensive linemen whom switch from exterior to interior or the reverse do at each spot.

 

What exactly is your argument? Are you saying that defenses shouldn't have base packages with a single edge rusher? Should you not have run-oriented defensive ends?

 

or he could be used like Von Miller, only flipped to the right side. Hybrid linebacker who plays SAM in base; edge rusher in nickel. My personal preference but I like to think of him as more of a 3-4 rush linebacker who can drop in coverage than a 4-3 end.

 

Me too, especially with the expansiveness of the position. No reason for 3-4 ends/4-3 closed ends to not be classified separately since their position is pretty much unique unto itself.

I didn't realize Odrick spent time wide in 2011 either (with the presence of Jason Taylor).

 

What does Cam Wake have to do with this? .... and why are you questioning his production?

 

I hope you realize you're basically arguing 3-4 teams <like San Fran, Houston, and Pitt> & hybrid type defenses <like ours, Baltimore, Seattle, and Denver> can't be effective b/c they feature DEs who much more resemble DTs than pass rushers.

BTW, how many defenses feature 3 pass rushers in base D? I find it odd you think 2 isn't enough.

 

you made a fair point, Deej. Being in the 285-290 range might offer Odrick a more appropriate combination of run stopping & pass rush ability for his role.

 

Odrick is the RDE, he lines up vs opposing teams LTs. And where did you get that RT is the second weakest position for giving up pressure? I'm pretty sure I've never heard that before.

 

it's called making it up as you go along.

















putz

 

Since this thread has gone full blown Odrick bashing, and I've meant to bring this up for a while, I'll try to get it back to over hyping Wake:

I believe 2 seasons ago Wake was on ESPN demonstrating said rush "moves" (tried searching for the clip) and one of his main points was he never exposes his torso to a lineman. It made sense at the time to me for a rusher with a low center of gravity not to give up leverage to 6'12" Patriot tackles whereas a lanky rusher would have a better swim move. Yet with two more years of tape on him the rip seems to be his only move. Every technique has strengths and weaknesses but it seems to me without the threat of a complimentary inside move tackles should be able to cheat wide and deep on his side.

With sports science clocking Jordan in at a faster rpm spin then Dwight Freeney perhaps the rookie can teach ol' man Kracken a new trick or two.

 

I already said Odrick is depth only.

 

According to whom? B/c he started 16/16 games last season. Do you not watch the games or are you substituting your personal opinion for that of the career professionals who decide these things?