The team source familiar with Miami's draft strategy said the Dolphins desperately wanted to pick Austin in the first round Thursday. Had they remained at No. 12 and had Austin been there, that would have been the pick, the source said. And the source said if Austin had not been available at No. 12, which he was not, the plan was to select Notre Dame tight end Tyler Eifert. Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/2013/04/27/3367504/armando-salguero-upgrading-offense.html#storylink=cpy
So according to Amando Ireland was so desperate to draft Austin that he moved up to #3 and selected somebody else?
Don't be using logic and stuff! Way I see it, adding Wallace and Gibson, subtracting Bess tells me they really like Matthews and Binns. Subtracting Fasano and adding Sims and Keller also say a lot about Fasano and MAYBE Charles Clay. Thing with Clay, he produces points. And maybe Thigpen more then we know.
Both of you should actually read the article, or re-read it so you get the point. Jordan was the only player coveted more than Austin (apparently) and when the opportunity presented itself they made a move for Jordan. I would have rather had the #12 pick and the #42 pick.
Now think about that for a moment, so if they really wanted Eifert, then wait until the 4th to take any Te at all? If they really coveted Austin, then they'd stand still for him, but they would move up for Jordan? That brother, is known as lip service, fairly clear they wanted the Pass D upgraded and paid little in resources in the draft to upgrade the offense, they moved up for Davis, but passed moving up to take Stedman Bailey?
Wanting Eifert doesn't necessarily mean that they found value at TE until the Sims pick. As to Austin, try reading this again: "The team source familiar with Miami's draft strategy said the Dolphins desperately wanted to pick Austin in the first round Thursday. Had they remained at No. 12 and had Austin been there, that would have been the pick, the source said. And the source said if Austin had not been available at No. 12, which he was not, the plan was to select Notre Dame tight end Tyler Eifert. So even without the Austin option at their disposal, the Dolphins were going with an upgrade to the offense." Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/2013/04/...ding-offense.html#storylink=cpy#storylink=cpy The point is, if they stayed at #12 they would have taken Austin, but they were far from convinced that he's still be there- and they were right about that. They took a shot at a trade with the Raiders, and to their surprise the Raiders bit on #42 as compensation. And when they moved to #3 they took the one player that they coveted more than Austin- Dion Jordan. I don't consider that lip service. And personally, as I said, I'd rather have #12 and #42 than Jordan- and a big part of why is that I woudl have been all over Menelik Watson at #42, where he was taken with our pick sent to the Raiders. I like Jordan- I'm hopeful and he's a great athlete- but I'm not sold on him.
Gosh thanks, like I didn't read it before. I'll not argue, know when they are Bsing, and they are Bsing. As soon as they signed Keller, Eiefert was superflus, if they had wanted Austin, he was there. If they had wanted to "upgrade the offense" they would not have consistently moved away from offense for the rest of the draft. Quoting an article, that is self serving, is just absurd imo. Srsly, what were they going to say "we know fans wanted more offense, well we signed Wallace/Gibson/Keller/Louis screw them, our pass defense was atrocious and could not turn over a rock let alone intercept a football"
What's absurd is you thinking that you know what Ireland and the FO were thinking. Personally, I would have preferred not making the trade for Will Davis and not drafting a kicker, using those extra picks on more WRs and OL. This is not one of my favorite Dolphins drafts. But as to this thread- They wanted Austin, but they wanted Jordan more. I don't see what the big deal is. I have a bigger problem with not drafting Steadman Bailey, Wheaton, Goodwin Patton,etc in rds 3-5. Remaining wish list is Da'Rick Rogers Xavier Nixon Marquess Wilson
No, gheesh. oy vey. It was looking apparently obvious Austin wouldn't make it to us, and the value to move up to 3 for Jordan was too good to pass up, so we moved up for the guy ranked even higher on our board whom we initially didn't think would make it to us. This is isn't rocket science. THe draft was based around reasonable expectations (IE: Tavon at 12 or short trade up), not unreasonable expectations of being able to trade up to 3 for a top 5 player.
I get it just fine, I'm just not buying what Armando is selling. If you want to buy into it, be my guest.
Post #3 repeated here: "Article says that Jordan was the only player that trumped Austin. It's hearsay anyway, who knows." If the FO are collectively full of it, then Stephen Ross was in on it as well given the comments he made. None of us know what the FO was thinking, but it seems reasonable enough to me that Jordan was the one guy they preferred over Austin, and a late opportunity presented itself as per Jordan and they took it. No mystery here, no big deal.
Ireland clearly moved up to take Austin…Irelands plan all along was to fool everyone into thinking he had moved up to draft Austin then not take him causing mass confusion until the Fins picked again in the 2nd round.
Or like last year they failed to properly address the WR position… I really think the Fins need to add another speed guy at the WR position.
I posted that an hour ago, and according to what I saw then on ESPN Wilson hadn't been drafted yet. I would have been happy if we drafted Rogers and Nixon, surprised to see them go undrafted.
I really wanted Eifert, but if Jordan can be like Wake, and Jason Taylor before him, than I am happy with the pick.
I can't fathom why people are having a hard time realizing what a steal it was to only give up 2nd rounder to jump into the top 3. Whether you like DJ or not, the raiders were desperate and got bent over by that deal. That was GIVING it away.
Maybe in a draft with a solid top 10 it was. Do you recall, ever, a weaker top 10? Jordan imo is a very good prospect, but not an elite prospect. In this draft #42 was plenty of compensation for moving from #12 to #3.
For who though ? Silly to say you prefer those spots but not mention targets. I'm going to take the value we got on that trade 10 times out of 10. in this case I like Jordan over my hindsight picks.
It's a bit relative to the year, sure. But it was still a steal no matter how you look at it. Considering every single other trade in the first round had pretty much given up more than we did, or close to it (and they didn't get #3 overall). That's moreso my comparison than comparing to top 15 value of previous years.
Are people actually thinking that giving up the #42 pick to get Dion Jordan was too much to give up? It was the biggest steal of the draft. We gave up less to get Jordan than St. Louis gave up to get Tavon Austin. There is no doubt that there is some risk with Jordan, which makes this even more intriguing to me. Jeff Ireland threw caution to the wind. He didn't trade up to get a safe player. If you wanted a safe player who is a guaranteed pro bowler, you would have taken either Jonathan Cooper or Chance Warmack. Both may be Pro Bowlers by their second year. However, if you want a player that has the ability to be another Jason Taylor or DeMarcus Ware, you take Dion Jordan. When I see Dion Jordan, I see a lot of similarities to JT. Both have that long, angular frame with a great first step, long arms, the flexibility to bend the arc. Both played from mostly a 2 point stance in college. The thing that stands out to me about Dion Jordan is the leverage he plays with. That's what makes me think of JT the most. The aspect of JT's game that no one talks about was how he was able to use his long arms and flexibility to generate great leverage on offensive tackles that were between 70-100 lbs heavier than he was. Much like JT when he came into the league, Dion has to develop a counter to his speed rush. His speed rush is the best in this draft, and it is because of how fast his first step is and how much depth he gets on that first step.
I personally preferred Eifert and Watson over just Jordan. I had Jordan rated higher than the other two, but not enough for me to say I liked him better than both of them combined. That being said, that is purely subjective. If you believe that Jordan is the next JT of D. Ware, I'm not going to criticize paying a ridiculously low price to go up and get him. I actually do believe that Jordan can be exactly that. It is a completely reasonable valuation in that his athleticism is very similar to D. Ware's and his production on a per rush basis was among the best in the draft. And also by all accounts he seems to have the personality to put in the work to maximize his gifts (which may be the most important trait). I just had a very high grade on Watson and I thought that Eifert's impact was potentially as high (even though I had some questions on whether he'd ever be elite). In reality I was just being more conservative and more of a need filler than Ireland was. He was going for the BPA on his board at a high impact position. I won't fault that strategy at all.
It's exactly how I had my board..Austin and EIfert at 12 unless Dion Jordan dropped...I didnt know that we could of ever moved up to the three for 1 2nd round pick.,
What Armando is saying is pretty much in line with what has been known from other sources. Honestly, it seems Armando is on here reading things in Club and elsewhere (as has long been suspected). I think that's likely how Miami had their players rated. The trade up to Oakland was obviously great value from the standard NFL draft-trade-chart perspective - but it will only be a steal if Jordan turns out to be value at the #3 pick in the entire draft. I will be rooting for him to do so but steals are only steals if the player works out. Personally, though, long term, I still like Chase Stuart's Football Perspective trade chart better (based on actual value of how picks work out over time, not JJ's subjective valuation) - from that standpoint, it's a near wash but Oakland got slightly higher value (the #3 pick is valued at 27.6 and the 12+42 valued at 29.6). See here: http://www.footballperspective.com/creating-a-nfl-draft-value-chart-part-i/ And here: http://www.footballperspective.com/draft-value-chart/ I don't know what Cleveland would have asked for at 6 but they like Bess and assuming we throw him in, I suspect we could have and likely would have landed Austin there (probably for 12+42+Bess; or perhaps 12+54+Bess). I am right there with Rafa - I'd have preferred Eifert and Watson to Jordan (yeah, hindsight is 20/20 but that's a reasonable expectation going in for those players). Not sure this was a top-heavy draft. Though I understand how they went with the best guy on their board in Jordan at #3.
There were only a small handful of true impact players this draft, so I don't have a problem trading up for one of them. I'm not sure it's sunk in yet for some of us that we moved up for the top defensive player who still has so much untapped potential left. When this kid is 260 and further settled into his position, look out.
That pretty much sums it up. I can't think of a single DE in this draft that doesn't come with some fairly serious questions, and to me that question re: Jordan is, will he handle NFL OTs or get handled? Jason Taylor was of a similar size, even thinner, but he was able to regularly beat OTs in the NFL- to me, Jordan will have to prove that he can do the same. All that I can go by is what I saw in games and film, and imo the downside is this: Jordan far too often got neutralized by OTs and ridden outside on pass rushes. I don't hate the trade, I'm just a bit wary of it. If not for that trade and the Will Davis trade we could have had: 1. Eifert/Lotulelei/Sharriff Floyd 2. Menelik Watson- I know that I've mentioned him a ton of times, here's why: not only is he huge and mobile with great hand punch and reflexes and a very good kick slide (especially for a man of his size, he's a beastly 6-5 310, solid) this guy just stonewalled DEs all season, neutralized them. I looked for failure/weaknesses from Watson and never found any. Absolutely rock solid in pass pro and run blocking, and the arrow is up. One of the best prospects I watched, bar none. There was your future RT or maybe LT, right there. 2. Jamar Taylor- no problem there. 3. Marquise Goodwin, Markus Wheaton, Steadman Bailey, Quinton Patton- I'm pissed that we didn't draft at least one WR 3. Alex Okafor 4. Dion Sims 4. Sean Porter 4. Devin Taylor And despite the question marks, I would have rather drafted Swope or Corny Washington late in rd 5 as opposed to a kicker.
Re: Upgrading offense took a back seat for You may not agree with me, but I don't think you can project who we would could have drafted had we not made the trade. I think one small change in the draft causes a butterfly effect that changes everything. Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk 2
All that I'm going by is players that were available to us (if I got it right) before the Will Davis trade. That being said, my best guess is that you could take it to the bank that we would have drafted Watson at #42 if not for the Raiders trade. Then, if that happens, do we really need Dallas Thomas in rd 3, especially with all those Wrs still available? If an OT no, if an OG- no? Also, we missed out on Keenan Allen and Alex Okafor by 1 pick each- personally I'd rather have those two over Thomas and Jenkins.
