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Some questions about Tavon Austin

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Pauly, Apr 25, 2013.

  1. Pauly

    Pauly Season Ticket Holder

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    I'm not a big fan or analyst of college football so what I know about Tavon Austin can be comfortably carved onto the back of an aspirin with an axe.

    Seeing as how he is highly touted as the best pick for the phins at #12 perhaps some people who know more than I do could help me with him.

    1) If he is such a good WR prospect why is he going to be available at #12 for us to pick? Especially in a draft that is regarded as being very thin on talent in the top 10 picks.

    2) Isn't he basically Davon Bess? He is a quick player with good hands and agility. But he is short and his vertical leap at the combine was questionable so it is likely he is going to struggle with outside routes in the NFL. Whilst he is NFL fast he isn't mind bendingly fast enough to outrun NFL corners in foot races the way say Ted Ginn could.

    3) IF he is such a sure fire hit that the Fireland bandwagon will start rolling again if we pass on him where is the college production to justify that certainty? 12TDs in 13 games is pretty good but 11.3 yards/reception isn't doing it for me
     
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  2. shouright

    shouright Banned

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    What people fail to realize IMO is that the kinds of plays Austin made in college have been made with far less frequency by similar players in the NFL.

    These players who look like they're being controlled by a video game joystick in college don't perform anywhere near the same way in the NFL.

    The Tavon Austin craze represents the fantasy that my team will have the one player whose skills are so great that he simply cannot be defended. That player has never existed in the NFL, and Tavon Austin won't be the first.

    There isn't a person here who can find a highlight reel of a player making the frequency of plays in the NFL Austin made in college, yet we persist in the fantasy.
     
  3. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    1) There's a decent chance he doesn't make it to 12.
    2) Austin and Bess/Ginn aren't remotely close to being the same players. Austin is like taking Ginn's speed and combining it with Bess's quickness, elusiveness, and change of direction ability and then multiplying that quickness, elusiveness, and COD ability by a factor of two, then throwing in a pair of eyes in the back of his head, tremendous instincts with the ball in his hands, and an ability to make plays downfield. Secondly, not sure I'd call a 32 inch vertical "questionable", especially when paired with a 10 foot broad jump and a guy running 4.3. He can get up in the air when he's actually moving and not standing still trust me; it's not like he'll be standing under a rim waiting for a rebound.

    [​IMG]

    3) 11.3 avg includes all the sweeps he ran which are more like a handoff than a pass. Excluding those, his average increases to nearly 14 IIRC, which is quite high for a slot receiver b/c you need to also factor in the nature of the receiver position he plays.
     
  4. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    blah blah blah.
    I guess this type of post is to be expected from the guy who spent a season making excuse after excuse for Hartline's lack of playmaking ability, namely scapegoating the QB. Obviously if Hartline can't make plays then no one can, right. :001_rolleyes: I mean, that's how you'd have to treat it to maintain consistency of argument and peace of mind with yourself.

    Playmakers make plays, even in the NFL. I know that's difficult to fathom after watching Bess & Hartline all season but it's true. The only fantasy is the one you reside which leads you to believe a playmaker, albeit possibly reduced in frequency from college, is no better than making no plays at all. At the end of the day this is still football, a sport based on athletic ability, where players with greater ability have the potential to do greater things..... but then again you think the game is driven by the stats rather than the play. BTW, no one here has said Austin will continue making plays with the same frequency as he did in college; that's just a delusion you created in order to falsely criticize fans who want to draft him. He doesn't have to make plays with the same frequency in the NFL to be considered a playmaker among the league.
     
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  5. azfinfanmang

    azfinfanmang Premium Member Luxury Box

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    TOS- Attack the post, not the poster. By doing this, aren't you in effect proving him right? Or at minimum, not disproving what he said?
     
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  6. Fin-Omenal

    Fin-Omenal Initiated

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    Thee...Ohio State University
    This stuff make me laugh.
     
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  7. Pauly

    Pauly Season Ticket Holder

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    Obviously I haven't closely analysed Austin, so please bear that in mind with my comments.

    Looking at Ted Ginn's college highlight reel and Austin's highlight reel, the biggest difference that sticks out in my mind regarding the athletic ability of the two is that Austin gets to top speed faster than Ginn, but Ted Ginn has two more gears at the top end than what Austin has. Austin does not have that ability to burn past a top quality corner who has a good angle on the play. Austin is undoubtedly a better football player and catcher of the ball than what Ted Ginn ever will be.

    His vertical leap is average for a WR in the combine, which combined with his stature makes me think he isn't going to be a bona fide #1 WR in the NFL because he will have to make his plays on the inside shoulder. Another way of putting it is that in the highlight reel Austin makes his best plays with the ball already in his hands, not with the ball in the air.

    If his college production is good for a slot WR isn't that a red flag for thinking that he can step up and be a true outside WR in the NFL. Davon Bess is already a solid proven NFL calibre slot receiver, and there are other areas where I can think the 'phins could improve themselves more (CB, OT, OG in particular) by drafting best available at those positions than slot WR.
    Even if the screens are taken out and his average goes up to 14, that's still only good but not great for college production, it isn't 16+ which is what I was expecting based on the comments I have been reading here.

    To my mind it only makes sense to draft Tavon Austin at #12 is if (1) He is a genuine outside threat in the NFL or (2) We trade away Davon Bess and we need a top quality slot receiver in the offensive system we run. Many of the top slot WRs in the NFL today weren't drafted or were day 3 picks.

    There just seems to be a disconnect between the raw numbers and how highly rated Tavon Austin is. I know he has a great highlight reel, but for me I prefer the lowlight reel as a method of translating college performance into NFL performance (ie. What sort of mistakes does he make and can they be corrected with coaching? how does he perform under pressure against the best opposition?)

    I am not saying that drafting Tavon would be a mistake, just that I don't see evidence of it being a sure fire slam dunk.
     
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  8. azfinfanmang

    azfinfanmang Premium Member Luxury Box

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    And, in a nutshell, this is very much what I have been saying, just not nearly so eloquently.

    I honestly will be fine if we do draft Austin, but he is probably 8-10 on my personal board..which obviously doesn't mean squat...but is what it is.

    I think he should be a "nice" player, but not the electrifying guy I watched a few weekends this past year. He just won't have the same success in the pros' he did in college..and yes, he is certainly limited in the things he can do.
     
  9. Fin-Omenal

    Fin-Omenal Initiated

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    Thee...Ohio State University

    Bess isn't in Miami's long term plans, Austin would be chosen as a replacement. He's def not a boundary WR.
     
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  10. azfinfanmang

    azfinfanmang Premium Member Luxury Box

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    And, I think that is a very fair assumption, and I do think he is an upgrade to Bess. My continuous question and the main reason I have him so low in regards to our draft is are we at a point where we can spend our top draft pick on an upgrade at a position where we are already pretty darn good? I can think of a minimum of 4 positions we need to upgrade long before we can even dream about upgrading at slot.

    Truth is, we might trade Bess and still don't pick Austin.......
     
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  11. Drowning

    Drowning ONCE MORE UNTO THE BREACH

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    I gotcha on this one. And without naming the obvious candidates which the majority of would be RBs and a couple of WRs.

    Marshall Faulk in the greatest show on turf. Why say I? This guy affected defenses never having *to* touch the ball, as a wideout.

    IMO, that's like saying Randy Moss was able to run the ball effectively when called upon.
     
  12. Drowning

    Drowning ONCE MORE UNTO THE BREACH

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    Whoa there, brotha. I'm fairly certain that is the very reason for the interest in drafting him. Going a little far their to prove your point.
     
  13. CANDolphan

    CANDolphan Well-Known Member

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    This has been the most likely scenario for quite some time now.
     
  14. Fin-Omenal

    Fin-Omenal Initiated

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    Very possible.

    Infact I think Austin may be gone by 12 anyway. In wich case I think Tyler Eifert will be the pick.

    Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2
     
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  15. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    I think it would be helpful if people stopped thinking of Austin as a WR and instead think of him, Harvin & Cobb (or even Denard Robinson & Cordarrelle Patterson) as players for a new position altogether...XR.

    What these guys do is give you the chance to score from anywhere on the field because of their open field ability. And you can get them the ball in a number of different ways. One of the reasons Austin is considered so valuable, is that out of XRs, he's probably the most polished at WR and as a RB destroyed one of the better college defenses.
     
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  16. Drowning

    Drowning ONCE MORE UNTO THE BREACH

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    That's the meat and potatoes of the debate and it really isn't a debate. The answer is hellllllllll no. Not with the offseason we had at WR.

    Bess vs Austin I think is ridiculous. Bess can't move like Austin. The kid is the next human joystick.

    Ginn vs Austin. Also ridiculous. Before Ginn was drafted, someone forgot to ask if he was a football player. With his reluctance to take a hit, we all learned the answer there. Don't believe a man who makes his living in the inside will have the same problem. When I compared Ginn to Bess it was in the sense of being frightened that once again, while trying to hit a home run for a shiny toy, will we get hurt again? Though some tried to make it about me arguing Ginn vs Austin for ability, it was never close to that.

    Austin vs production in the NFL. Come on. Who knows? Chances = likely.

    I do not believe our family has the funds to purchase a corvette. But man would it be fun to drive.
     
  17. azfinfanmang

    azfinfanmang Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Perhaps. Especially considering we let our only proven RB walk, and Philbons history, we might just keep Bess AND draft Austin.
     
  18. Drowning

    Drowning ONCE MORE UNTO THE BREACH

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    Amen.

    [/QUOTE] And you can get them the ball in a number of different ways.[/QUOTE]

    My biggest fear. Sherman won't get creative with him. Doesn't have to be wildcat much but just enough. Come on man, Reggie Bush never out wide? Can't forget that.
     
  19. Drowning

    Drowning ONCE MORE UNTO THE BREACH

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    This is all I have seen in the last couple of days. That's crazy for a guy his size and it speaks to the awe ability the kid has.
     
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  20. magicap

    magicap Shonuff

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    Well no need to worry because mr poster because we WILL NOT DRAFT TAVON AUSTIN. I would love the pick but I just dont see him being a top need with how Ireland drafts horizontal.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I317 using Tapatalk 2
     
  21. Boomer

    Boomer Premium Member Luxury Box

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    I suspect Austin will be long gone by the time we're on the clock. But I've watched an awful lot of him and he can't just be seen as a "slot WR".
     
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  22. Phinfanjt

    Phinfanjt New Member

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    Who's going to take him? The Jets? Maybe the Eagles after a trade down? I have a hard time believing Buffalo. I think they know Austin is a hot commodity and are using him to be able to trade down and get their boy Nassib
     
  23. Da 'Fins

    Da 'Fins Season Ticket Holder Staff Member Club Member

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    Don't think we will draft Austin (unless we trade up) and that is unlikely (for Austin, that is), imo. So, don't think we will be seeing him.

    They idea that we don't see plays like Austin made in the NFL is just not so. It doesn't always look the same but in the KR/PR game we've seen Dante Hall. Chris Johnson, when in his prime, also exploded past players. I would argue that in the 10-20 yard range, Austin is equal or better than Johnson - plus his quick twitch moves are better than Johnson.

    Austin is light years beyond Bess in quickness and speed and instinctive moves in the open field. He is not perfect but he has a lot of potential.

    Sadly, I don't think we're even considering him and don't think we'd even draft him if he were there at 12 except in a rare situation.
     
  24. Boomer

    Boomer Premium Member Luxury Box

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    The Jets, Cleveland, any team trading into the top ten. The Eagles were the hot name at the Play60 event yesterday according to Tavon himself.
     
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  25. Perfectville_USA

    Perfectville_USA Mr Perfect

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    NFL is all about mis-matches, you line up Wallace wide & the defense was to put 2 DB on him. Now a player like Auston in the slot on Wallace side is going to have a field day. Speed kills in the NFL, Tennehill & Co will get a ton of big plays.
     
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  26. CANEPHINS

    CANEPHINS No Tats & Dreads Allowed

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    All I need to know about Austin is that I know he will not be drafted At 12 by Miami. No need for me to waste time watching film or learning about him. He will not be the pick. Move on to other targets of interest.
     
  27. Two Tacos

    Two Tacos Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Google "barry sanders" click on videos.

    Sent from my SGH-T959V using Tapatalk 2
     
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  28. jw3102

    jw3102 season ticket holder

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    In answer to your first question, I don't see him still being available when the Dolphins draft at #12. I think he will be drafted in the top ten. I can see the Bills drafting him or the Rams moving into the top ten to ensure they get him. If for some reason he should get out of the top ten picks without being taken, I expect the Jets to take him one pick before the Dolphins.

    I don't see him as a Davon Bess. I think the player he most resembles in ability is Percy Harvin. He is also a great return man. If you think Davon Bess and Percy Harvin are the same player, then I guess you would assume Austin is similar to Bess.

    I don't know that any receiver in the draft is a sure fire hit, including Austin. He is just viewed by most experts as the best WR at this time. Only time will tell if he ends up being the best or not.
     
  29. Onehondo

    Onehondo Senior Member Club Member

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    Is it just as likely that if he ia available at #12 then Miami would have a good chance to trade down with a team with not so many needs, but who views Auston as a luxury? Percy Harvin is a dangerous weapon and if he didnt have as many red flags he would have been highly coveted by more teams than were there when he was a free agent. Tavon Auston is in the same mold and could also be a dangerous weapon, but could or shoud that be viewed as a core player?
     
  30. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    I'm not going far. The Austin fans, like myself, know he's a playmaker and will be one in the NFL but that he obviously won't be having anymore 432 yard games like he did vs Oklahoma. Shouright is contriving a false Tavon Austin perception just so he can argue against it and talk down to a collective of fans as he frequently does.
     
  31. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    a movable chess piece who could and should lead all your WRs & TEs in total touches year after year should be viewed as a core player.
     
  32. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Tavon Austin is a highly skilled football player, not athlete, not receiver, football...player, with extremely quick twitch muscle action, when you add great open field vision and instincts, speed, durability and confidence to the skillset, your talking about a player that should translate to the NFL level..it's mos def worth the 12 th pck in the draft..

    The kids ability to put defenders in a hesitation mode, is where any offensive scheme should begin, then build around it..
     
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  33. Finatic

    Finatic I Pay The Iron Price

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    There is 0 truth in this post. Austin will be there at 12 and is just a slot wr. (special teams guy)
     
  34. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    How can he be "Just a slot WR" and a Special Teams guy?
     
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  35. Finatic

    Finatic I Pay The Iron Price

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    if u think tavon austin is going to line up outside the hashes youve been playing madden to long.
     
  36. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    Thanks for not answering the question and instead making a poor attempt at an insult. That greatly increases your statement's credibility.
     
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  37. Finatic

    Finatic I Pay The Iron Price

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    ur questien wuz of da language artz variety n az yu can c i cud care less
     
  38. thisperishedmin

    thisperishedmin Well-Known Member

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    I would rather see Eifert than Austin...I think the red zone presence and promise of Eifert is the aspect that puts us "over the edge" in comparison to Austin, and I think its pretty obvious Keller is a stop gap only...if we pass on Eifert I sure as hell hope Mr. Egnew has a banger of a coming out party this year, but I'm not sure I'm convinced it will happen.

    I have trouble seeing any one out side of Eifert I like at 12 based on how I expect this draft to shake out. Disclaimer: not an expert. If we dont trade up for one of the top 3 LTs, I hope we take Eifert. I don't think trading back with our first pick is wise. I'd rather see a trade up with our 2 second rounds back into the first, and trade our 2 3rd rounds for a 2nd rounder if possible. 3 Starters (LT or TE), a CB, and a pass rusher would be phenomenal. If we go Eifert then Make the Albert deal happen...maybe that means 1 of those trade ups not happening. I'm undecided on Warmack - I know he would be a good addition but as a fan I want something flashier. If we take him, for the love of god we better be done with 1st round linemen for a long time...

    Mostly I have nothing but baseless speculation, and I hope it shakes out well :)
     
  39. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    There is 0 truth in this statement. You care way too much.
     
  40. Finatic

    Finatic I Pay The Iron Price

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    i did not know that you were thephins.com grammar specialist. i will be sure to dot my i's and cross my j's
     

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