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Beckup quarterback? Don’t think so …

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by ATVZ400, Jun 16, 2008.

  1. ATVZ400

    ATVZ400 Senior Member

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    LINK
    http://www.realfootball365.com/index.php/articles/dolphins/11589
     
  2. gafinfan

    gafinfan gunner Club Member

    There is something to be said for the Hair Cut comparison. Chad looks mad, Josh looks questioning, and John looks happy. Guys I have to tell you; I'll take "Happy" every time. :yes::wink2::up:
     
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  3. brandon27

    brandon27 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    While I agree that Beck will probably be our starter this season, unless he is just awful in camp and the preseason it must be said that this article was completely ridiculous. :lol: I've hoped all along that our starter would be Beck or Henne. Nothing against McCown, i just want one of our young drafted QB's to get their shot and work out well for this team.
     
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  4. FinsFan_In_Iraq

    FinsFan_In_Iraq New Member

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    Wow, wasn't that article insightful. Though I do think if McCown ends up being the starter, Id look to see Henne as soon as we're mathimatically eliminated from the playoffs.
     
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  5. THCMAN

    THCMAN New Member

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    What a ridiculous article. Exhibit A was a joke...

    I fully expect Mccowen tio win the J-O-B outright and Henne to leap frog Beck before Thanksgiving, maybe sooner.

    Its amazing to me how many people trash Mccown because of the teams he played on. The QB is only one player, the win loss record is based on the ENTIRE team and organization.

    He has won more games obviously, and he's thrown many times as many TD's in the pros. The games I've seen him play he didn't embarass himself, Beck embarassed himself when he took the field. I think Beck would be a great PR guy though, but professional football players are judged by what they do between the hash marks on Sundays, not by what they say in interviews or by how well they speak...
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2008
  6. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

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    I think they are under-estimating the experience factor. IMO McCown is still the most likely guy to start the season. Beck is the most talented of the three but he has very little experience facing NFL speed. The one thing he seems to have struggled with thus far in mini-camp/OTAs is his pocket feel. That's usually the result of either adjusting to the speed or not knowing the offense. With how hard he's reportedly worked I think adjusting to the speed is the more likely cause. I think it's unlikely that Henne is a factor this season unless the other two QBs are injured or just fall apart.
     
  7. RealDriscoll

    RealDriscoll Banned

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    i think McCown wins the battle
     
  8. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    You make that statement, yet go on to bag on Beck, even though he played on a horrible team. Sure, he fumbled, but, let's not forget, he had defenses crashing through his offensive line like it was made out of tissue paper. If you're gonna give McCown a pass, due to his teams, then you have to give Beck the same thing.
     
  9. Frumundah Finnatic

    Frumundah Finnatic U Mad Miami?

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    Good old irony.
     
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  10. THCMAN

    THCMAN New Member

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    Seems to me you're overlooking the most important thing.

    McCown has actually won real games in the NFL & he's done it on horrible teams with different coaches & different systems. He found a way to win.

    Beck hasn't won any NFL games yet has he?

    May the best man win. It's a competition remember?

    Regardless of who wins the job this year, and I seriously doubt that Beck will win it, Henne is the future anyway. Why would you just hand the job to a guy who is probably the least impressive QB on the team?

    He gives great interviews though doesn't he? :shifty::pointlol:
     
  11. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Neither did former annual probowler trent green with two more weapons, Brown and Chambers.
     
  12. cnc66

    cnc66 wiley veteran, bad spelur Luxury Box

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    you will eat those words.. and I shall feed them to you...
     
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  13. JMHPhin

    JMHPhin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    your kidding right? LOL least impressive? Perception is a ***** sometimes.
     
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  14. Ducken

    Ducken Luxury Box Luxury Box

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    Would you care to back any of this up with something that has some substance? I think we can all see you don't care much for Beck, but I would be interested in reading how you have come to view him in such light. And please remember to keep it in the context of how the rest of the team preformed around him last year.
     
  15. THCMAN

    THCMAN New Member

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    I see a lot of die hard Beck supporters around here. I can't help but wonder why be so exclusively supportive of one player.

    I don't have anything against Beck. Let's put it another way, I liked him much more than Lemon, but I liked Trent green more then either of those guys.

    As for making me eat my words? :tongue2:

    That sounds an aweful lot like trash-talking doesn't it?

    I've seen McCown play in games for two different teams over the years. He didn't win all the games I've seen him play in, but he always looked better than Beck did last year. I know that's not saying much, but my opinions are based on real NFL games that I've watched with my own two eyes. I'm curious how anyone can be so sure that Beck is going to win this QB competition. What exactly are you basing that on?

    What Mueller and Cameron said last year?

    I saw 3 different rookie QB's play in games last year. They all looked better than Beck did. These are games I watched with my own two eyes. He 'may' get better, but I honestly don't remember ever seeing a QB get that much better in just one year. Try not to be so emotional about it... :shifty:
     
  16. Ducken

    Ducken Luxury Box Luxury Box

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    You lost me on that one, I am not trying to make you eat your words or change how you perceive someone I am just curious as to why you posted what you did.

    As for why I believe beck will succeed in the NFL if given the proper chance. It has nothing to do with what Cam or anyone else said about him last year. IMO you could see last year the poises in this young man the few chance the OL gave him to stand in the pocket and do his job. You could tell he has a nice strong arm with accuracy. Who knows how he would have done if the OL remembered how to pass pro for him, and we had not traded our best WR and Brown had not gotten injured. This kids study, work habits, and off the field presence are all signs that if his physical skill are there we will have a very good QB on our hands.

    His fumbling problem last year is a concern, but with such a small sample size it really is hard to tell if it was just a combination of little to no snaps with the 1st or 2nd team in his 1st few games, poor blocking etc... or just a problem plain and simple. I tried to look up and see how many fumbles he had in college to get a better idea and larger sample size but I was unable to find that stat.

    And yes I am a Beck fan but I could not care less who our QB is as long as we are winning. Hell it could be Donald Duck for all I care, but the bottom line is I want the best of the 3 on the field and if the best is not on the field because it is not a BP pick then I will be pissed.
     
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  17. JMHPhin

    JMHPhin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    The least talented is teh comment that is in question.

    WHat has McCown shown over his 7 years that reflects that he is more talented? He had better WR in Ariz at any point in his stay than Beck had in his BRIEF playing time yet failed, he lost a comp to journeyman Kitna in Det and battled and lost out in Oak and was cut vs keeping him over tuiososopo who was resigned. Yeah backup and Russel I get it, but still NOONE has looked at McCown and said FUTURE!

    Henne? Great physical specimen and skills, but sorry show me whereoutside the Fla bowl game he showed up big? He was widely inconsistent and never lived up to the hype at Mich and had to very talented receivers in Arrington and Manningham as well as an all american back in Hart yet as a leader didnt lead them anywhere, so how are you so sure he is the future? I would love it if he becomes great, but where is teh evidence that you can bank on it?

    Beck? Well ask any of his teammates at BYU they will all tell you he was teh leader and they would follow him anywhere. He did numerous times step up at BYU. He showed a ton of poise in an extremely diff situ last year where most rooks would have folded. When he was pulled in teh Buf game, instead of looking dejected and sad, he was mad and wanted to play. That comp desire. He could have folded in Cinci after teh bad play but fought thru and played well after that. Is there ? marks? Yes, but to point to 2007 as evidence that Beck doesnt have it, is wrong IMO. If he doesnt earn it fine, but he definitely should be afforded every opportunity, Beck is actually the one with the better overall history.
     
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  18. Frayser

    Frayser Barstool Philosopher

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    I support Beck, and yet I have wondered the same thing. The devotion to him is, on some level, quite shocking . . . particularly when I think back to the 2007 draft where boards seemed evenly divided between Edwards, Cobb, etc . . .

    The only thing I can come up with as far as an explanation is this: John Beck is the first serious investment in the QB position that this franchise has made since Dan. On a psychological level, I think that might contribute to some of the idolatry.

    Beck is my first choice because he has the most time with this franchise and because of his accuracy. Aside from that, I really have no devotion to him. I'm sure lots of Browns fans thought Charlie Frye should have got more of a chance, and I'm sure other Browns fans felt that Quinn should have started the season.
     
  19. Kanye West

    Kanye West 'Parcells' Guy

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    I hate Josh McCown he has not done good any where when he starts so why do we think he is going to good here starting. Maybe what we should do is let our other guys start like John Beck and Chad Henne and then if they do really really bad then we let Josh McCown have the starting job
     
  20. GridIronKing34

    GridIronKing34 Silently Judging You

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    Chad Henne has his hair cut like mine is right now... That's right, my hair use to be pretty long so I don't get any hippy or girly jokes from Stitches and enforcer!

    Does that mean I look like a mean, tough linebacker?
     
  21. TotoreMexico

    TotoreMexico Your retarded

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    Really? I thought the win loss record was based on the ENTIRE team :rolleyes:
     
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  22. BwanaZulia

    BwanaZulia New Member

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    I just don't understand why any Dolphin fan would want to see Mcown start. He is not the future of the Dolphins and it would be better to see what the other two guys have than to hand the team over to some perennial back up QB.

    BZ
     
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  23. 124

    124 Banned

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    Josh McCown is there for an insurance, nothing more. The Dolphins have to use one or both of their second round pick investments. They have to see what they have going foward with either Henne or Beck. I think Beck is going to turn out to be the better Quarterback, but Henne will get all the hype and attention from the fans just because he started four years at Michigan.
     
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  24. like2god

    like2god Typical white person Luxury Box

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    I don't see any benefit in starting McCown, this team is not playoff caliber and probably won't be for the next 2 years. We are a rebuilding team and we have plenty of time to be patient with our young players and see what they have to offer, no need to rush into a "win now" mode.
     
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  25. MonstBlitz

    MonstBlitz Nobody's Fart Catcher

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    The problem with that thinking is you don't know they are not a playoff caliber team. Sure the likelihood is they will not make the playoffs, but it's a horrible negative attitude to say there is no chance. There have been more shocking things to happen in the NFL.

    So for that reason IF Josh McCown ends up being the best QB on the roster, he has to be given the starting job. At least until the team is mathematically eleminated from the playoffs.
     
  26. MonstBlitz

    MonstBlitz Nobody's Fart Catcher

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    I think the support from Beck also has something to do with the circumstances he was made a member of the Dolphins. Passing on Brady Quinn was a shock to everyone. Beck was the security blanket that helped us cope with that shock. As long as Beck can become a good QB, we'll never have to face the mistake of passing on Quinn. I know this is a terribly unpopular opinion to have, but I think it explains a lot behind Beck's popularity despite significant evidence to back it up.

    But as I've said before, it's a fan's right to support a team or player whether they deserve it or not.

    As for me personally, I support Beck, but only as much as I support every other player on the roster. As for my fan favorite, I hope Henne eventually wins the job being the youngest guy on the roster. Everything else being equal, Henne winning the job is what is best for the Dolphins.
     
  27. like2god

    like2god Typical white person Luxury Box

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    It may not be a very positive attitude and yes stranger things have happened in the NFL, but you also have to be realistic and you can't sit and wait or plan for the quick turnarounds. You have to go about your business and bring this team along in a way that benefits your players, if you become a surprise playoff team in the process, that's great, but you can't play the "what if" game.

    This is a young team with alot of key players who are trying to get their feet wet in the NFL, you can't go into the season with the mindset that the playoffs are realistic and that a vet QB should play ahead of 2 young players who need experience. McCown hasn't proven that he can lead a team to the playoffs, so I don't see why he should be the starter while our future rots on the bench, best player or not.

    JMO though
     
  28. MonstBlitz

    MonstBlitz Nobody's Fart Catcher

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    Neither has John Beck. One thing Josh McCown has proven is that he can put points on the board and can win games. That's something John Beck hasn't done yet. Josh McCown is only two years older than John Beck so the argument of young players being the future really only applies to Henne.
     
  29. like2god

    like2god Typical white person Luxury Box

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    Not really, we also invested a 2nd rounder in John Beck and if he can develop into an NFL starter this year he could have another 7-10 years in the NFL. It's not uncommon at all for a QB to play well into his 30's, Trent Green is a good example and Vinny Testaverde is a freak. :lol:

    As far as McCown putting points on the board, he's never thrown for more than 11 TD's in a season and only eclipsed the 10 TD mark twice, and for his career he's thrown more INT's than TD's. Not to mention that in his 7 year career, he only has 12 wins, so I'm not exactly sure how he's shown that he can carry a team.

    I don't see any reason to start McCown over Beck or Henne, he hasn't shown me anything to make me want to keep their potential on the bench.
     
  30. Larryfinfan

    Larryfinfan 17-0...Priceless Club Member

    First you say it's based on play, but with a pass for the teams' talent he's had, but you're comeback still doesn't give Beck his due credit because of the talent (well, lack of ) that surrounded him. So, you still contend that McClown gets a pass and Beck doesn't for the same reasons ??

    Another way to look at this is that McClown has had 3 teams and 5 seasons to make an impression and still hasn't ?? The ONLY thing he has going for him over Beck or Henne is game experience...that doesn't make him any better than the others...
     
  31. MonstBlitz

    MonstBlitz Nobody's Fart Catcher

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    I think we kind of agree. If McCown doesn't show the coaches that he can advance from his past form, which is the QB you describe, I don't think he should start either. I have a hard time believing that John Beck or even Chad Henne won't be able to win the job if Josh isn't ready to take the next step as a QB.

    I think where we differ in opinion is that I'm not quite ready to write off Josh McCown as an NFL QB yet, and think he might be able to make that next step. I should emphasize MIGHT. I would rather see Beck or Henne win the job, but only if they earn it with their talent.
     
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  32. like2god

    like2god Typical white person Luxury Box

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    Yeah, we agree on some things, but I'm not willing to keep our bigger investments on the bench unless McCown is light years better and has one hell of a camp. We've invested more in Beck and Henne than we have in McCown, all Josh is costing us is $$$. He hasn't shown much in his first 7 years, so if his performance isn't Brady-esque I think we need to develop our young QB's and let the best one win.

    We both want nothing more than to have the best QB possible, we just disagree on whether or not McCown has anything left to show. Personally I think that if he hasn't shown anything after 7 years, he doesn't have anymore tricks up his sleeve.
     
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  33. 124

    124 Banned

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    Exactly. If he hasn't shown it by now, he isn't ever going to show it. Ever. Josh McCown is what he is. A nice serviceable back-up Quarterback, nothing more. Chad Henne or John Beck deserve to start. There are reasons Miami has spent two straight second round picks on Quarterbacks and one of those reasons is not to watch them sit on the bench to watch a 30 year old never was start for a season because he's "more NFL ready" on a rebuilding team.
     
  34. PhinsRock

    PhinsRock Premium Member Luxury Box

    Dumb article, tongue-in-cheek apparently, but what else we gonna read this time of year?
     
  35. THCMAN

    THCMAN New Member

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    "Beck's due credit", is this like some secret code or something?:pointlol:

    Neither guy has looked great, both played on crappy teams, but one guy has looked better.
    There is no denying which guy has played better. I think the vast majorty of people trashing Mccown have never even seen him play. I'd bet money on it in fact...

    Nobody gets a pass, quite the opposite. The QB competition is about how they play and get graded in TC and in preseason games. The passes are being given out by all the guys that say that Beck 'should' start, or Beck 'will' start because of something intangible...
     

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