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Ireland's Pre-Draft Press Conference

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by ckparrothead, Apr 11, 2013.

  1. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Way too high for Bernard..Lacy will go first, jmo..would take Ellington and Ball over Bernard.
     
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  2. Ludacris

    Ludacris Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    If Ireland wants to move from the 2rd round to the back part of the 1st round, I have to believe it is either for Trufant or Jamar Taylor.
     
  3. Limbo

    Limbo Mad Stillz

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    I think Gio's foot quickness and activity is top-notch, gives him great balance and elusiveness. I hope you're right that he'll be available at 2b or 3. Not a fan of Ellington - and definitely not over Bernard. Benefitted from a wide open offense that allowed him to look for the edge all the time...and he took it. That won't be there for him in the NFL. His decision-making (and his tendency for indecision and dancing) reminds me David Wilson's from last year, only Ellington doesn't have near Wilson's athletic ability to pull off that style. His balance and feel outside and in the secondary is good, but I just don't see much effectiveness between the tackles to get me excited about him as a phin. I like his versatility in the pass-game, but I don't think he'll be too productive carrying it 10-15 every week.
     
  4. GMJohnson

    GMJohnson New Member

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    That would be a helluva start to the draft IMO.
     
  5. Larryfinfan

    Larryfinfan 17-0...Priceless Club Member

    I don't think it's that Albert isn't the answer, but the top guys in his draft are obviously fisher and Joekel and are lts. No one else makes sense at #1.
    PTo top it off, a drafted guy is cheaper....of course, someone trading up to one would alter that train of thought, too.
     
  6. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    David Wilson is an explosive athlete, I don't see the comparison, when I watch Bernard's reps, I see good short area quickness and good footwork, but there isn't a gear to get away, and when I see college payers close on a running back, laterally as well, it's only gonna close quicker at the next level..
     
  7. azfinfanmang

    azfinfanmang Premium Member Luxury Box

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    I like Ball also, and I agree I think all those guys go before Bernard, but I don't think we spend a pick that high on RB. Gio might be our guy if he's still there in the 3rd or 4th.
     
  8. Limbo

    Limbo Mad Stillz

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    Sorry yea my post wasn't clear. That comparison to Wilson was about Ellington: they make a lot of similar decisions - not the most decisive runners and are prone to kicking it outside all the time to get around people into space and get chunk yards. I see Ellington doing this at Clemson, but he doesn't have the athletic ability to pull it off like Wilson does. Ellington has shown very little between the tackles, which turns me off to him. He and Wilson are similar decision-makers, imo, but Ellington won't be as successful.

    And on Bernard: his lack of breakaway speed is made up for in part by how he well sets up his blocks/moves, which is why he was such a good punt returner. Great feel for pace, finds and squeezes through small holes really well. Good out of cuts because he keeps his feet under him with those short strides...just a natural football player, imo. The comparison I'd make for him is Shane Vereen. Probably an agree to disagree situation going on here, too, which is totally fine. RBs are hard to talk about, imo, hard to evaluate. I don't have an opinion on Ball, really, seems to be a solid all-around guy.
     
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  9. smahtaz

    smahtaz Pimpin Ain't Easy

    How about taking Werner and Watson and then use the remaining 2nd round pick on a corner?
     
  10. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Yeah I'm not sure where taking Bernard in the 2nd came into the conversation, makes no sense to me..if Lacy drops then ok, your getting a legit power run game.
     
  11. Ludacris

    Ludacris Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    If the fins miss out on Lane Johnson and pick up Menelik Watson in a trade up to the late 1st it would certainly confirm what Rosenhaus was told. That is, that the Dolphins are getting a tackle in the first round.
     
  12. Ludacris

    Ludacris Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    He picks core positions in the first round I believe....except when he picked Pouncey lol.
     
  13. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    No worries, he does a lot of nice things, I just think the kid is gonna get squeezed at the next level..he's no Lamike james, even as a college prospect, so I got his value in the fourth..
     
  14. Da 'Fins

    Da 'Fins Season Ticket Holder Staff Member Club Member

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    "Best player that marries a need" - the stacked approach.

    I really don't think Ireland is trying to hide very much or has his mind made up; nor that, therefore, we can tell much from his expressions or words (other than he's excited about a lot of scenarios). I think all these rumors & presumptions make too much of things. He's not giving much up - but I think he's a pretty straightforward guy (Not a secretive Belichick-type; or deceptive-manipulative Parcells/JJ type).

    I don't think he is "planning" to move up but is considering it for sure at this point. I think the most honest and straightforward thing he said was that they are still working the draft board and will be grinding that out (with finalized evaluations) over the next week+. Then they will be doing just what he says: they will be working through every potential scenario to be ready come draft day for every contingency (players falling, rising, trading up / trading down).

    And, really that's just exactly the approach they should take to be as thoroughly prepared as possible, to be as calm as possible, so that there are no shocking scenarios - they will know the worst case draft scenario and best case. That's the only way to make a calm, rational decision.

    It may have been telling about the TE position or CB position and no doubt they will seek to add offensive linemen. But I think he really is being forthright when he says he has, "a pretty good idea of 3 or 4 guys I'm looking at, absolutely." And then his comment, "there's going to be a good player for us, I'm going to be excited going into this draft."

    To try to predict they want player X doesn't really take into account how they have each player rated at each position (which no one really knows though we might guess here and there and have some general idea) - and such ratings aren't even fully completed; nor do we know what they think of the strength of a given position in each section of the draft. Just as some ex-scouts have a player rated at the top of round 2; another ex-scout sees him at round 4-5 in talent. Take, OT for Miami. They may have 4-5 guys rated closely at 20-40 in that section (round 1-2) or only 1 or 2 (He noted they include rating by round in their "stacking" - as to where the player should go).

    It will be interesting to see what they do but that will be so contingent on what happens ahead of them. The dream of course would be to actually be in the draft room and see the board Ireland has up there.

    Having watched drafts since 1983, it never ceases to amaze where some teams have certain players rated - when they pick up a guy that everyone is really surprised about and they are really convicted he is the best player. That's why so many teams have busts who were expected to be busts (like Kumerow). Even today ... there are always unpredictable outliers for each given GM. These can be at the top of round 1 or round 7.

    Maybe the biggest positive was not at all about the draft but where he thinks Brent Grimes is. I suspect he thinks he will be fully recovered and 100% by training camp. If that is the case, we should have a playmaker starting at CB (better than any we've had in the last few years).
     
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  15. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    jmo, but I don't think the kid can recover, he already was thin below the knee, and I saw a recent workout where his lower half was incredibly atrophied, I want him to make it, but it goes against what I think will happen, those legs are gonna get hit, and hit, and hit..I wouldn't spend a fourth or fifth.
     
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  16. smahtaz

    smahtaz Pimpin Ain't Easy

    It sounds like T, CB and DE are in play for the 1st 3 picks.

    I'm going with Werner, Watson and Trufant.
     
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  17. DPlus47

    DPlus47 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Good post.

    I remember how I used to "follow" the draft: I would wake up early on the day after the draft and go through the list of draft picks in the sports page. The day after!

    In 1983 I had one of the best breakfasts ever: I had been really hoping for Marino (I have a lot of cousins who are Penn State fans and I'm a Buckeye who naturally became a Pitt fan just because...) and that was the first and last time they picked the guy I wanted in the first round until...

    ...Ted Ginn. Hey, I'm batting .500!

    Anyway, fast forward 30 years, and it's not uncommon for the pick to be known before Roger even announces it. That's a far cry from reading about the draft in the paper the next day.

    Still, where's my flying car, dammit?

    /old
     
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  18. KB21

    KB21 Almost Never Wrong Club Member

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    My guess is, to get Giovani Bernard, you will have to take him at 42. I doubt he gets past Cincinnati in the 2nd round, and they pick 53rd. Miami picks 54th, so Gio will not likely be there.

    Count me as one that feels Giovani Bernard is the top back in the draft. He has a better burst, better long speed, and better overall vision and instincts than Eddie Lacy. In fact, reports from Lacy's pro day say that he ran in the 4.6 area and was overweight.
     
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  19. pocoloco

    pocoloco I'm your huckleberry Club Member

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    Just be ready for the Southeast Montana State Polytechnic pulling guard to be drafted in the fourth round.

    Be ready.
     
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  20. UCF FINatic

    UCF FINatic The Miami Dolphins select

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    Agree here. I watched him last year and he just wasn't the same player as before. He seemed to be a bit more hesitant, lost his "wiggle" and never ran like he really trusted his knee. Add in the most recent injury and it doesn't look good for him in my eyes.
     
  21. WhiteIbanez

    WhiteIbanez Megamediocremaniacal

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    What about Leon McFadden in the 3rd round.... fits the zone scheme.
     
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  22. Its doubtful either party (Long or Ireland) will ever reveal what really took place. My feeling has been all along that Jake had no interest in staying in Miami. Unless Miami was willing to massively overpay to keep him or nobody else wanted him, he was as good as gone. The idea of resigning was never a serious consideration but it was a useful leverage tool to squeeze as much as they could out of STL.

    I completely have the impression that Miami wanted to keep Jake and it was him that would not budge to find a way to work things out so that he could stay. He quit the Dolphins.
     
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  23. VManis

    VManis Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Here's a thought. Based on Crazy's info the Phins are planing on coming away with 8 players but not necessarily 8 rookies. Based on CK's observations Ireland is hiding a little secret on the WR position. Could there be a trade in the works which could also net us a WR? Or maybe Bess is part of a trade package to move up?
     
  24. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    i agree, it's what I thought he was gonna do all season long.
     
  25. Fineas

    Fineas Club Member Luxury Box

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    Why would he do that if he didn't have to?
     
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  26. pocoloco

    pocoloco I'm your huckleberry Club Member

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    I wonder if Jake's decision had anything to do with the organization rolling him out on the field injured, during garbage time, in an already losing season, just to aggravate the injury further. I'd be on the first train out of town too.
     
  27. Protecting the QBs blindside is important in garbage time too.
     
  28. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Jake Long was making like $11 million per year off his rookie contract. He has NO right to complain about him being asked to play a game he's been paid tremendously to play. No right whatsoever.
     
  29. Jaj

    Jaj Registered

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    Have you thrown out a mock draft CK?
     
  30. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Not a full one. There's a lot of potential movement to account for and I can never figure out how to account for it.
     
  31. Jaj

    Jaj Registered

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    Is this some of the potential movement?

    - Philly possibly after Geno
    - K.C. going in another direction
     
  32. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    No I mean trades.
     
  33. Jaj

    Jaj Registered

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    I wonder if Oakland would take a lowball offer at 3...

    They have to fill that roster with inexpensive talent as they have very little talent with a high cap number and not nearly enough picks. Perhaps that's Miami's chance to go get Joeckel.
     
  34. Frumundah Finnatic

    Frumundah Finnatic U Mad Miami?

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    Is anyone else a little dissapointed with what Ireland said about TEs? That its not a core position?
     
  35. NUGap

    NUGap Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I was watching a panel on analytics in football from the Sloan conference last night. One of the interesting points they made, that's obvious when you think about it, was about the ebb and flow of positions and demand. That is, when no one ran a 3-4, it was easy to find the players to fit that scheme. When everyone transitioned to a 3-4, it was easy to find players for the Tampa 2. If you wanted to be on the opposite side of that trend with TEs, everyone else stacks up on big, receiving TEs like NE has and you focus on players that aren't as valued. Maybe slot receivers or running backs that can catch the ball really well. Perhaps Ireland is playing that game. (Thus fulfilling my dream of an offense where every WR is a RB and every RB is a WR, so you can motion anyone into the backfield or into the slot)

    Or maybe he just sucks and/or is putting out a smokescreen.
     
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  36. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    So you want to draft Austin or no?
     
  37. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    It's not. You've got to consider what he explained he meant by "core" positions- The expensive ones to fill. Tight end isn't one of them. It's relatively inexpensive in free agency, there are relatively 1st round tight ends, and there isn't as strong as strong a correlation between performance and draft status at tight end as there are at a lot of positions. Elite tackles are overwhelmingly first round picks. Elite tight ends are not.
     
  38. NUGap

    NUGap Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I'd sure be excited as a fan if we picked Austin. Love watching him play, could be fun to see him play in the NFL (note I felt this same way about Pat White). However, as someone who plays armchair GM, I wouldn't be as happy.I think there are larger needs and problems on the team than a slot receiver. My thought is instead of reaching too early for a Gavin Escobar or Dion Sims (or Egnew), you look elsewhere. Base your offensive sets around more H-back guys who are valued less. Grab Mychal Rivera or Philip Lutzenkirchen, good players valued less. That's more of my thinking on that subject. But it's all speculation and a thought experiment, sometimes you have to go against the tide and other times you have to go with it.
     
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  39. KB21

    KB21 Almost Never Wrong Club Member

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    One interesting guy the Dolphins have brought in for an interview is the FB/TE Kyle "can't spell his last name" from Harvard. It should also be noteable that Miami is showing a great deal of interest in Giovani Bernard, who was highlighted in a Football Outsiders write up as a hybrid RB/Slot receiver type of player.

    I think even with the ebb and flow of certain positions as they relate to being core positions, I think there are 4 that are core positions universally that do not ebb and flow as much. Those are quarterbacks, left tackles, pass rushers, and cornerbacks. Ireland likes to include wide receivers, but I can't consider it a core position when it is the most dependent position on the football field.
     
  40. Fineas

    Fineas Club Member Luxury Box

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    It doesn't much matter to me what Ireland or anyone else characterizes as a "core position." It seems like a matter of semantics. If there are great players at non-core positions, you should still take them, especially if they fill a need. With regard to TE, the Dolphins FO clearly does value the TE position, as they made an offer that was very competitive (from what I understand) to Jared Cook's 5 yr., $35M deal with the Rams.

    While it is true that one doesn't usually have to take a TE in the top 10, that doesn't mean no TEs are worth a top 10 pick. I doubt the Pats or Saints would trade Gronk or Graham for the No. 10 pick now. TEs are being used much more in the passing game now than in the past, so past notions of the value of the position and how much value you could get out of a TE are a bit outdated IMO.
     
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