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Oh, Jeffrey! Will you ever learn?

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Joe Robbie, Apr 11, 2013.

  1. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    You'd like a #1 overall pick to be that guy, but there isn't any way to predict that. The decision to draft someone and the decision to retain them at the end of their contract are two separate issues fundamentally. In economics it is known as the sunk cost fallacy, the fact that you paid #1 overall or #255 overall for Jake Long should not change your decision on him being worth the contract he was asking for or not in 2013. Paying Jake Long more than he was worth is fundamentally the issue.

    Considering Jake Long hit the market at what was essentially his career low point, I'm not really sure where they could have approached him with a contract that would have been better.
     
  2. RevRick

    RevRick Long Haired Leaping Gnome Club Member

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    You ever heard the aphorism "What goes around comes around!" It is as true in football as anywhere. The only thing new in football is the size of the players. Just because a 28 year old hasn't seen it before doesn't mean it wasn't done before.
     
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  3. ASOT

    ASOT New Member

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    Yeah if he takes an OL in the 1st this year that makes 3 of his 6 1st round picks OL. With that much resources spent on that position it should be the backbone of the team, yet it's one of the biggest question marks.

    Why is it people can't see this is why he and his evaluation process and abilities are questioned ? ½ of your most premium picks you've had and it's an unsettled area of the team. :pity:
     
  4. ASOT

    ASOT New Member

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    Myself I don't disagree with the picking of an OL in the 1st. It actually wouldn't bother me given our position. But its being in the position of having to take an OL there that bothers me. By this time, 6 drafts and given that we have spent such high picks there, that shouldn't be a position of need in this draft - yet here we are once again looking at big fat guys to get all excited about at the draft parties. :tantrum:
     
  5. BevoPhin

    BevoPhin Well-Known Member

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    Its not fair imo to fault a guy for doing something that hasnt happened yet. As of now hes spent 2 1sts on the o line. Both are or have been top 3 in the league at their position. Theres 5 guys on the line which makes it tougher to have a complete corps than other position groups.
     
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  6. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Somewhere along the line I would think that you'd put some thought into how good the offensive linemen he picked early actually ended up being. Like maybe even the first or second thing you think about.
     
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  7. Joe Robbie

    Joe Robbie The Patriarch

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    People have their philosophies, and will stick with them no matter what. The fact that the team has been losing means nothing to them. They want to see the team win by their way. Ireland represents their line of thinking, so the fact that the team has sucked throughout his tenure is obviously someone else's fault.
     
  8. ASOT

    ASOT New Member

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    And an OL too, that is if we recap : two 1st round draft picks, and one 2nd round pick, plus Pat White 2nd round, Turner 2nd round. So out of his five 1st round picks, and at least 5 2nd round picks, at total of 10 HIGH picks, 5 of them are no longer on the team.

    That is why some people question this dude and his evaluation talents.
     
  9. LiferYank

    LiferYank New Member

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    Let me know when Ryan wins a Super Bowl.
     
  10. Joe Robbie

    Joe Robbie The Patriarch

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    You know who did win a Super Bowl? Another guy that was passed up in that draft. Lol
     
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  11. Joe Robbie

    Joe Robbie The Patriarch

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    Even good teams make mistakes. Lol
     
  12. pumpdogs

    pumpdogs Well-Known Member

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    Bottomline is he will never shut people up until he puts a winner on the field!!!!Hopefully this is the year but don't blame people for being pessimistic he hasn't earned the benefit of the doubt yet.
     
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  13. ASOT

    ASOT New Member

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    Bevo it's very painfully obvious what we are going to take in the 1st. With Ireland picking, I'd bet a **** for one of you guys with my wife I am that sold on his taking an OL with that 1st pick.

    By the way she's a very hot cougar :up:
     
  14. ASOT

    ASOT New Member

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    I do think about the line, and how its one of the biggest messes on the team. Am I wrong about that or not ? Are you comfortable with the tackles we have right now ? With Keller replacing Fasano, are we really that much better there ? Fasano was a hell of a blocker, is Keller just as good ? And Egnew, Clay and Mastrud are the backups. Yuck.
     
  15. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    I agree, however I just wish they would make sense and keep their arguments straight.
     
  16. ASOT

    ASOT New Member

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    Well he's a hell of a lot closer to winning one than we are now.
     
  17. BevoPhin

    BevoPhin Well-Known Member

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    I wouldnt be surprised if it wasnt. Though now that we have a qb worth a damn its probably a good idea to keep him protected. Of course I want the tavon/tank/eifert pick, but id rather not have ryan not end the year on ir.Just one of us? Just kidding.
     
  18. LiferYank

    LiferYank New Member

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    Yes due to better talent on the team not due to his talent. And even with all that talent he has the reputation for being a choker in big games.
     
  19. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Players leave, players fall apart, etc. and so on.

    It's pretty ignorant to act like Jeff Ireland has ****ed up on the offensive line. He's had at one point or another high quality starters at every position except Right Guard. They didn't field a dominating offensive line except for times early on in his tenure, but treating that as more Jeff Ireland than circumstances is a bit asinine. He should have had an idea Justin Smiley and Jake Grove would be injury prone, but he shouldn't have expected career-ending injuries out of him. Nor should he really have been expected to pretend Jake Long and Vernon Carey's declines. I'm not comfortable with the Tackles right now, but you're probably not having an otherwise good season ruined by them, and the team is going to address the situation.

    In terms of the tight ends, they improved in terms of receiving ability, I don't think there should be any question there. As far as this question goes, Fasano was not used frequently in pass protection last year. His run blocking will be missed, but this coaching staff has been good with managing tight ends as to not provide blocking issues. They need a blocking specialist.
     
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  20. pumpdogs

    pumpdogs Well-Known Member

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    I don't have a problem with ol,cb,or de as long as its the best player on the board.I do not want to move up to grab offensive tackle and give up two draft picks in the process!!!Moving up is for game changers not offensive lineman.If he moves up for 1 of these guys he just blew the entire draft!!!
     
  21. smahtaz

    smahtaz Pimpin Ain't Easy

    I disagree completely. The record at the end of the season is all that matters. I'm not a big fan of Ireland's past performance but I consider every season in a vacuum. Past performance is irrelevant.
     
  22. pumpdogs

    pumpdogs Well-Known Member

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    Past is relevant a coach or gm has 2 good seasons and then 2 bad seasons he maybe keeps his job.A gm or coach has 4 bad seasons in a row he gets fired!!
     
  23. unifiedtheory

    unifiedtheory Sub Pending Luxury Box

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    And you'd be the first one in line *****ing like no tomorrow if our offense sucks because our quarterback is getting his *** kicked, can't use his new weapons and we can't run the ball.
     
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  24. smahtaz

    smahtaz Pimpin Ain't Easy

    What are you talking about? Nobody is going to be fired anytime soon. The record at the end of the season is all that matters.
     
  25. Ludacris

    Ludacris Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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  26. mommabilly

    mommabilly No riders allowed

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    Well, Ireland did not exactly pass on signing Jake. Its more Jake did not feel like he was el primo dude anymore. The money St. Louis gave him is really stupid silly. Even if he is not on the Roster at the end of 2013 he still puts about 12 million in his pocket.

    You can say it was too little too late but to be perfectly honest, Jake is not the Jake we all knew and Jake will never be that Jake again, ever. He claimed he was healthy and felt better then ever in 2011 and he was put on IR and did not have a good season. Again prior to 2012 he claimed he felt better then he has ever felt and was put on IR again during the season.

    I cannot remember any LT in the history of the NFL having Knee surgery, shoulder surgery, bicep surgery only to be followed by Triceps surgery, coming back and being anything substantial ability wise. Never. Maybe someone can dig up a premier LT or any Offensive tackle that has had that many surgeries and still performed at a high level. Last one I can think of is Orlando Pace and by the time all the surgeries were done he could not do anything. He was released by the Rams, signed by Chicago and it was an embrassment to the game of football watching him.
     
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  27. mommabilly

    mommabilly No riders allowed

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    Parcels passed on Ryan, not Ireland. Look back at any draft Parcels was involved with and outside of Drew Bledsoe, Parcels never picked a QB. Besides, Parcels thought he had his QB in Pennington until his shoulder fell apart. Since Bill Parcels has been in charge anywhere he never put too much substantial into any QB, never.
     
  28. pumpdogs

    pumpdogs Well-Known Member

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    Your kidding right?If this was Ireland first season and they finished 6-10 do you think he would get fired?Let me answer that no!Now if they finish 6-10 this year and ross looks at his past 3 years and yes he gets fired.
     
  29. ASOT

    ASOT New Member

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    I gotcha Bevo, and I am resigned to it, so it doesn't really bother me right now. But if I see Austin, Eifert or Ertz tearing it up next season, and we are stuck with Keller on IR, I'll be kinda pissed.
     
  30. ASOT

    ASOT New Member

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    I'll grant you that, but who would you have rather been the last 5 years, us and our record or that of Atlanta ? And why did he have better talent on his team ? Oops....that falls on Ireland too.
     
  31. ASOT

    ASOT New Member

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    Dis I'm not totally down on what is happening, but it just seems like Groundhog Day every 1st day of the draft. OL or DL, they just aren't positions that get us excited.

    Ireland has to hit a HR on this 1st this year, and if the top 3 OL are gone as expected are you okay with taking the 4th best OL at # 12 ? I'm not sure I am.
     
  32. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    No. That is simply not true.

    You all have been given evidence that Ireland followed Parcells blueprint. Its been proven the game passed by Henning and was never there for Sparano. Its been shown that Henne was as prototype a Parcells QB as there has ever been. You've seen how different Ireland does things without Parcells. You've seen how different he does things with Philbin. Yet none of that matters to you guys.

    Hell, I could show you that even PFF has Ireland's drafting in the upper half of the league, you'd find a way to complain about PFF, rankings, PFF rankings, stats, tape, proof, evidence, and any thing else you'd need to dismiss just to justify your throbbing Ireland hate boner.
     
  33. Rouk

    Rouk Well-Known Member

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    ill take gronk over any ol in the nfl so sure ill say tight end is more valuable
     
  34. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Getting you excited isn't really the focus. I think there's a valid argument that he hasn't been aggressive enough with certain positions, but beyond that it's mostly noise.

    OL, or Tackles? The fourth best OL this year will probably be pretty good and reasonable at #12 if you're choosing between Joeckel, Fisher, Johnson, Warmack, and Cooper.
     
  35. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    Would you take the best TE in this draft over the best OL on this draft???
     
  36. DPlus47

    DPlus47 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Gronk looks pretty good sitting injured on the sidelines when things matter. How about a tight end that isn't made of glass?
     
  37. Rouk

    Rouk Well-Known Member

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    ill take his 17 tds in a season and make the playoffs vs drafting oline and missing out every year
     
  38. DPlus47

    DPlus47 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Fair point about the TD's and the playoffs but I'm not following the alternative of "drafting oline and missing out every year." There isn't a Gronk every year to miss out on, first of all.

    Anyway, Gronk has mad skills but he might also have a short career. The Pats looked punchless in the playoffs without him this past year, and that wasn't the first time.
     
  39. CANDolphan

    CANDolphan Well-Known Member

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    One of the greatest single seasons by a TE ever. Yes that's certainly something I'd hang my hat on happening more often than not!
     
  40. Rouk

    Rouk Well-Known Member

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    the point is play makers > O-Line are you going to get a gronk the odds say no the draft is a crap shoot anyways but if you play it safe every year you'll never get one
     

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