Holy Tavon!!

Reed can block fairly well. He has really long arms relative to his height, and uses them well. There were sometimes, they'd keep him in to block on pass plays and he picked up blitzers and mirrored them pretty well. He seems to fit the type of athletic versatile tight end that Joe likes, but so does Gragg, and you could buy him cheaper, though possibly because he'a been a little injury prone.

 

Arm lengths:
Patterson, 31.75"
K. Allen, 32.75"
T. Williams, 31.25"
J. Hunter, 33.25"
D. Rogers. 32.75"
D. Hopkins, 33.375"
A. Dobson, 33"
Q. Patton, 32.875"
M. Wheaton, 32.75"
R. Woods, 31"
T. Austin, 30"
S. Bailey, 32.75"

 

This is why arm extension doesn't concern me. He can do it. It's just not consistent yet.

 

Relative to his height, I would say it's on the lower end, his hands are listed at 9 inches as well

 

I can find any receiver extending to that level, and have said that he can make some of those types, however the more reps I watched, the more I felt him being uncomfortable outside his personal target area..he's not consistent with it at this point, and I'm only critiquing this because we're talking about spending our 12th on the kid, and with Tavon Austin, Tyler Eifert and Keenan Allen maybe on the board, the description for this gm, and us for draft geeks, this year is to find the best offensive weapon..part of being a receiver for me, is consistently catching the football in the correct fashion and with a fluidity that is completely natural..For a top receiver,I'd rather have the talent in the hands, then below the waist..

I'm only looking for the smallest things to determine who wins out..I think as far as natural football players, with vision and athleticism, and intelligence, he's getting beat by some prospects...

 

You're right. Allen, Rogers and Williams are same height as CP. Bailey has long arms relative to his height, for example. Dobson does too.

 

Fair enough. I'm not sure what to say....after all 32 inches is 32 inches...maybe it's slightly small for his height but I'm not entirely sure how that would impact him too much considering it's still longer than other players.

I think if he gets the right technique what you are seeing will go away but thats just me. I'm not condoning picking him....I havent watched him hard enough yet.

 

Well, there are a few other things I'm more concerned with about him that are correctable with coaching. I'm just not that concerned about his ability to extend for the ball. I'm more concerned about his propensity to not high point the ball, which may be more of what you are talking about than what I think you are talking about. To me, I think he consisently waits to let the ball come to him than he does to go get it.

The other thing is I think he needs work on the start of his routes, and I think this contributes to his lack of explosion as a route runner. The first thing to note is his stance. He's too upright. He's so upright in his stance that at the snap, he is delayed at beginning his route because he has to shift his weight first and then get going.


You can see what I'm talking about in this still photo.

 

Ugh... Is he trying to convince the DB it's gonna be a run play ?

 

Can you please qualify this statement? I ask b/c I'm not sure I understand it considering Tavon creates his own space & separation just fine on his own merit. It sounds like you treat it as a bad thing to devise EXTRA ways to get the ball in your playmakers' hands above and beyond the role of normal receiver stuff.

 

I think he's too small to beat the press at the line consistently, at least to begin his career. I think reverses, bubble screens, running quick slants from the slot against linebackers, etc. would be necessary. And then you have to hope he doesn't get crushed by a defender, which is a distinct possibility. Basically what they should have done with Ginn, rather than try to make him a conventional receiver.

I don't think you'll see him taking handoffs from the halfback position very often in the NFL, which is something he did now and then at WVU. Honestly, I think there is a difference between the ability to create space in college with speed and jukes (with is something Ginn and Reggie Bush did too) and needing to tailor a gameplan to it in the pros. The instincts and closing speed of defenders is too fast in the NFL to expect WVU type performances from him (and he was never a tackle breaker anyway). At least that's my read on it... he's a gimmick player, slot receiver, return specialist. And that can be very very dangerous if used properly.

Not a bad thing at all. Unless there is literally no other way for him to be successful than to isolate on a linebacker or swing a reverse then, yeah, that would be a big problem. Want want more out of a 12 overall guy.

If this was Sparano and Henning, there would be absolutely no hope. I am much more optimistic about Philbin's intelligence.

Honestly, if we are reading the tea leaves correctly, all signs point to Tavon.

 

Not hi pointing the ball is part of it, waiting, instead of attacking, another, those things imo fit into the category of not being comfortable outside his wheelhouse statement, but there's more to it than just that..I don't see a receiver who gives his Qb a large radius/target zone for which to throw to.

 

I don't see any problems with Tavon being able to beat a jam at the Los at all, he's very strong, has a beautiful low center of gravity, his feet are very quick and coordinated, his jump cut and vertical explosiveness can be used effectively against man, and his speed and agility to separate... And good luck to the corner who comes up and takes him on..

 

Interesting how few RBs weve hosted since the start for FA even after losing our leading rusher and Daniel Thomas' concussion problems lingering. Im as high on Lamar Miller as the next guy but the lack of interest in any FA's (outside of rumors about Mendenhall) tell me that we might see a RB in the fold come draft time.

One more intertesting tie-in for the Tavon Austin conspiracy theorists as he would definitely get some handoffs in our offense.

 

it's definitely part of what makes him attractive and worth the 12 th pick, dude has great running skills..why wouldn't you use it ya know..shoot let him be your scat back back when necessary, his skillset's ceiling and what you can do with it is as high as anyone I've studied in a long time.

 

How often do we see slot receivers pressed?

I understand the NFL is a tougher gig, but playmakers still exist, and we're talking about a guy with a combination of elite speed and rare elusiveness, even by NFL standards. His big plays might not happen at the same rate as in college, but they're still gonna happen. Case in point, we witnessed Reggie Bush break some plays and he's not at Tavon's level of ability in that regard. Tavon isn't an athlete playing receiver so there's no need to tailor the gameplan to get him open, and with Wallace & Keller on the field he'll be getting opportunities in space.

Agree to disagree WADR. IMO he's a receiver first and foremost who runs good routes, understands the game & his position, can set up defenders, will get a lot of free releases from the slot, and possesses a rare natural ability that an offensive coordinator can expand upon so that he becomes more than just a receiver; he becomes an offensive Xfactor, one who allows for greater scheme flexibility & versatility.

Agree to disagree again. In this offense Austin could very well lead the WR/TE group in total offensive touches & yards by primarily working the slot, can impact the field position game, and tack on half a dozen+ TDs per year, so for me, I couldn't want more out of a 12 overall guy than that. I mean I could but it wouldn't be very realistic.

Completely agree here. He'd be a wasted pick with those 2 running the offensive show.

 

Austin may be the next Randall Cobb or Percy Harvin, absolutely. Maybe even better if you add Hester like returns. But is he smaller than those two. The two principal worries that scouts seem to share are his durability and ability to break tackles in the pros. That's particularly an issue if he is not flying up the sideline, but working over the middle like a Welker type.

The last undersized WVU player we drafted was also a phenomenal athlete, very intelligent, good fundamentals and seemingly made plays from nothing. He last less than a season and now we look back on that as an obvious waste of a perfectly good draft pick. Just saying.

But where we all seem to agree is that Philbin is perfectly capable of making it work. In the first time since forever, having widespread agreement on the capability of a Phins head coach is welcome sight.

 

Dipping my toe in to the shallow end of your discussion/debate, I think the ability to set up defenders is pretty key for someone of Austin's size. That, and a really good QB can go a long way. I'm sure it's probably been mentioned 100 times in all the Tavon Austin talk around here (though I haven't read a ton of it, however enough to get the lay of the land), but Mark Duper (5'9", 185 lbs.) and Mark Clayton (5'9", 177 lbs.) used to be really adept at setting defensive backs up, and Dan Marino was obviously a great QB, who'd get them the ball in and out of cuts. Two of Denver Broncos' famous trio, the Three Amigos - Mark Jackson and Ricky Nattiel - were roughly the same height and weight, and those guys were pretty decent at it, too, with John Elway tossing them the ball. Austin is only an inch shorter than those guys, and about the same weight. There're other examples as well, but I'll spare everyone!

That to say, those guys, although somewhat different in style of play to Tavon Austin, could all man the outside. Sure, players have become bigger and stronger, but that goes for WRs the same as DBs. I'm gonna wager a guess that if Duper, Clayton, Nattiel, and Jackson could all play the outside at least some of the time (Duper and Clayton did it as their primary functions in the Dolphins offense), I think Tavon Austin probably has the skills to do it in today's NFL, which gives most of the advantages to the WRs, anyway. I'm definitely not an expert at all the film stuff a lot of you guys do, but since I think Austin can probably man the outside as well as be a dynamic slot guy (not as sold on him as a runner in the traditional I-backfield), I think he'll be able to satisfy Joe Philbin's statement of wanting all of his WRs to be able to line up anywhere and run a full route tree. I think Poco did an excellent job expressing probably not only his reservations on Austin but a lot of people who worry about taking a guy like Austin as high as # 12, what with beating press coverage and thinking that the Dolphins will need to get Tavon in space. I kind of have those reservations in the short-term as well, especially in regards to playing on the outside, as it often takes WRs a year or two to "get it" (it took Duper and Clayton a little while). But I think while you wait for that on the outside, which will come, you'll have the dynamic slot stuff in the meantime, which is no small reward. All this, of course, is predicated on Ryan Tannehill being pretty good, which I believe he will be... but that book's finish has yet to be written. Speaking of finishing, I need to finish up. Ergo, since I do think he'll be able to play on the outside, in time if not immediately, I think he's probably in Dolphins' discussions at # 12 and definitely should be.

Not that anyone asked me.

 

Two things. One, I don't think durability should be an issue for a guy who has never even missed a practice. Size has very little to do with durability.

Two, Tavon Austin isn't trying to make it in the NFL as a quarterback, which is the WVU reference you are using. Pat White failed because he wasn't at a position where his athleticism could be utilized, and his size was a detriment to him playing quarterback because he couldn't read the field and go through progressions the way Russell Wilson does.

 

The 12th pick cant be Austin. Wallace, Hartline, Gibson, keller will all need touches. Just not enough targets to go around to make a luxury pick with so many holes. Plus there are Wideouts in this years draft that may very well fall to our second round pick who can potentially beat out bess for that WR4 spot .

I would like to take a shot on the best available Wideout on the board with pick #42. A guy more explosive then bess.