Agree with the bolded.... and think it's a big reason why Richie Incognito wanted Jake back too. Incog will have to help Martin more.. meaning Richie won;t be releasing to the second level as much, etc. not only is there the question of whether Martin gets beaten, but are you handcuffing the cieling on your LG's effectiveness while he babysits 'Big (Weak) Weirdo'?
all you are doing is shifting risk, because now you may have to get a RT AND a LT in case Martin struggles. The risk is now Martin having no safety net... which forces you to either risk Tannehill getting killed if Martin struggles... or spending ANOTHER resource to get a starting-potential caliber LT behind Martin, just in case. That's like a second round pick.
I would be shocked if they went into the season with Martin as their only LT option... that is just asking for problems. And as much as I lime vollmer... he has a history of getting injured iirc. Not sure I would be on board with that move
I'm sorry if I'm being to critical, I just didn't want any part of Martin in the draft, and last year only confirmed why, I can't just trust that some increase in strength is going to take him wheres he's at, to an average to above average tackle.. I'm just worried about the position.
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Hey, Eli Manning survived David Diehl, who never started at Left Tackle, and was one of the worst rated LT's that year, that year the Giants beat 19-0.
I was at that game. I thought Martin did a good job over all.. just had a couple break downs that he needs to clean up. Typical rookie stuff... if he is having the same strength problems this year then we can talk
Maybe that is the problem... you didn't think he was a good pick so you may not think he can improve enough to be a good nfl lt. Fact of the matter is that Martin s problems last year came from lack of strength. It wasn't a talent issue it was a rookie that needs to get stronger issue. If he is working out and increasing his strength as we speak he will be our starting LT next year.
Richie wanted Long back because they are friends. I think it was Mr. C that posted a while back that richies four best games last year came with Martin playing LT.
That's Darrell Winfield, who spent 20 years as the Marlboro Man. If you haven't seen it, you may enjoy this: [video=youtube;LEnQxJVjVEs]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LEnQxJVjVEs[/video]
So it's a problem for me because I had a poorer grade then most when he came out, and his first year was real bad?.. Maybe I'm not putting his strength increase into context relative to his development, but I sure hope your right that strength was his only weakness.
Martin had real issues in college, the utter brilliance of Luck and his ability to sense pressure, step up in the pocket, take off, uncanny ability to shift and evade pressure was elite, which directly affected Martins stats in a positive way.. If it wasn't for luck, Martin would of had multiple multiple sack games..Tannehill has no where near the sense to evade pressure as Luck does.. I think he will be my top target this training camp and preseason to focus on, I'll take a real hard look at his strength improvement and body..our young Qb could get ruined physically and mentally if he doesn't improve by a lot..
There's been speculation that we might be moving to more of a spread/option offense. If that's the case I would think that would benefit Martin no?
Richie played his best stretch of 4 games last season, when Martin was at LT. Maybe or maybe not coincidence.
I am giving him the benefit of a doubt because I honestly didn't expect him to start last year and he did. I am hoping strength is the main reason for his issues. That can be corrected with one good off-season.
That's not the point that was made. Aldon Smith beats every LT sometimes, no matter how high you may want to set your standards. So many seem focused on that one play because of how Martin got put on his back. That was the only sack he allowed to Smith that day.
I don't see it as any more of a liability than having a hobbling, slow footed Jake Long out there on the island protecting Tannehill. Jake couldn't compete most of the time against speed rushers.
That's not how it worked this year in the NFL, unless you're grading Luck like so many people are on him being a beautiful amazing Indigo child rather than a football player. Tannehill was statistically one of the best in the league when pressured, Luck was one of the worst.
Unfair considering who he went up against on that day and the lack of playing time he had at the Pro level at LT. He will get better at his natural position.
I don't think the issue being argued in this thread is that Luck passed much better than Tannehill when being pressured. I think it is that Luck avoided sacks better when being pressured. I think there is some support for that notion. While Tannehill was sacked on 21.5% of the times he was pressured, Luck was sacked on only 14.9% of the times he was pressured. Luck was pressured 105 more times than Tannehill but was only sacked 5 more times. That 14.9% figure for Luck is pretty good. I do agree that Luck wasn't particularly accurate when under pressure, but I don't think that is the argument DJ is making.
Maybe last year and some the year before that...geez, you guys make it sound like Long was complete chopped liver...he wasn't that bad the last two years, just not as good as he was before the toll on his body took hold... At any rate, like it or not, Martin is our LT now...Will he be ready ?? We don't know, but I'd be willing to bet that he's gonna be better than he was last year for three reasons...one, he'll be back in his natural position (or at least where he cut his teeth at the collegiate level) and two, he'll have an offseason to prepare to play that left side and three, he'll have this (at least hopefully) entire offseason to improve his strength for this level of competition... Does that mean he'll be as good as Jake Long was in 2009 ?? Don't know that...we'll have to see (although I highly doubt that he'll magically become an elite LT like Long was in 2009)....
Good info here. Thanks. Two questions: 1. Any more PFF breakdowns of Winston? I know hes was the 9th rated RT last year, which puts him near the top ~25% of all starting RT's. How was he against the pass vs the run? 2. How much zone blocking did we run last year? I think to how poorly the Raiders OL transitioned from a power blocking to a zone blocking shceme - they opened huge holed for Darren McFadden in 2011 but couldnt block for **** in 2012 under a ZBS. Thoughts? Did we already incorporate ZB last year? If so, how often and which of our guys are adept at it?
Winston was 25th among OTs who played more than 50% of snaps in Pass Blocking Efficiency ("PBE"). He was the 13th best OT in run blocking according to PFF's grading system and and the 24th best pass blocker. The Dolphins did a fair amount of zone blocking last year. Not every play, but a significant amount. I don't know of an easy way to quantify how often it was.
Ireland gettin cheap again...Vollmer will cost a little more than Winston but he's worth it, before he hurt his knee he was arguably the best RT in the league last year, and he even played through that injury. Out of 17 games (includes playoffs) Vollmer only graded out negatively twice. throw in the fact that he can play both sides well and he should be the signing
Vollmer has back issues but he played in 17 of 18 games this year. Eric Winston has had the same ankle operated on twice in two off seasons, and has now been cut with multiple years remaining in his contract by two football teams within a 12 month span. No dots to be connected there?
I just remember hearing word a year ago from our sources on the inside that the Dolphins were never really interested in coming close to Winston's asking price because they were afraid of him medically. Not a year later he's cut again. Even if you're not connecting the dots from a medical standpoint, he had two years remaining at about $5 milllion bucks a year with the Texans and they decided he's not worth it. He goes to the Chiefs and he had three years remaining at about $5 million bucks a year, and they decide he's not worth it. Why are these teams cutting him? Something doesn't smell right. At least with Vollmer you know he's only up in the air because he's a free agent, and you also know the Patriots are cap-strapped, and have been negotiating with him in earnest to try and keep him.
Doesn't seem like the cuts and the ankles have much to do with one another. He has played every game for 6 straight seasons and has played pretty well. The ankle surgeries, as I understand it, are routine offseason scopes that obviously have not affected his play.
I am just saying from the POV of human nature… some times we form an opinion and we have a hard time changing our minds. Not saying you are wrong about Martin, I am just saying that I would like to give him a little more time to develop before I start calling him a bust.
i don't think anyone's calling him a bust. he was terrible last year, on both sides, there's no denying that. i think 99% of us think he'll get better next year, the question is how much will he improve by? because he has a looong way to go. i dont know if i'm willing to take that gamble on him at LT with no real backup plan, if we sign Vollmer and Martin hasn't stepped up enough in camp/preseason, you can move Vollmer over to the left side in a pinch and have Martin compete with others at RT. i think people are underestimating how important these decisions regarding our 2013 OT's really are, what we choose to do here could make or break our season. you can have all the talent on offense in the world but if you can't pass protect on an offense that wants to pass the ball a ton, your offense can be crippled just like it was last season when we didn't have any playmaking receivers. i think getting Vollmer will be as big of a signing as Wallace was, if not more. it's a shame Jake Long took so much time to decide, it caused us to lose out on other FA tackles, and now we're in a position where we have this gaping hole at tackle, none of the top 3 rookie tackles will be there when we pick at 12, and there's only one tackle on the free agent market who has shown he can perform well on both sides, and his name isn't Winston. this is about to be 6 years in and this OL is still a damn mess, all the money and resources devoted to this unit and we only got one good year out of them collectively (2009), let's fix this **** once and for all.
