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The CB Market is Starting to Soften....

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by finyank13, Mar 14, 2013.

  1. invid

    invid Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    He needs to be cut, his health issues are a concern. Keep Patterson, get one of these low-value, possible up-and-comers, and draft someone promising.
     
  2. Phins_Fan_87

    Phins_Fan_87 Phins and Heat fan Club Member

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    i would take grimes
     
  3. Gunner

    Gunner Rock Hunter

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    I guess we are treating the CB position the same way we treated the WR position last off season
     
  4. Jcouch1021

    Jcouch1021 New Member

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    No but you brought up a good point. I can't seem to change my sig since 10-10-12 on my iPad or phone it won't let me :\ no I do not want Keenan Allen. I want star. Then banks
     
  5. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    I wouldn't mind Star.

    I don't think Banks is going to be the star that Austin is going to be. I would rather have Austin. Plus I think there is a chance Banks will be there at 2a.
     
  6. PhinsRDbest

    PhinsRDbest Transform and Transcend

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    the next dimension
    Man Eagles totally revamp their defensive backs:
    New Starters
    CB-Bradley Fletcher
    CB-Cary Williams
    FS-Kenny Phillips
    SS-Pat Chung
     
  7. Frumundah Finnatic

    Frumundah Finnatic U Mad Miami?

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    I thought being a ****ty DC is what got whats his name fired.
     
  8. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Not only are Richard Marshall's health issues a concern, it's a concern that simply put he's awful as a perimeter corner. Again, this is something I looked at a year ago when we signed him and I tried to figure out how he fit. The film study led me to this conclusion. He should've been a safety not a corner. He's barely a good enough slot corner as is. As a perimeter corner, he's bad.

    I didn't even know the stats until just now when I looked them up 5 minutes ago. I based everything on the film. But the stats support what I saw on film.

    This year, he spent 27 snaps in coverage in the slot. He was thrown on 4 times with 3 completions for 28 yards, 1 TD and 0 INTs. Not terrible. Not really good either. But that means he spent 118 snaps on the perimeter and 11 of 19 for 179 yards, 1 TD and 1 INT. And his big penalty plays were on the perimeter as well (one essentially gave up a TD). Those numbers are bad.

    The problem with running those stats on 2011 is that PFF doesn't do a good job of separating out his time at safety compared with his time at corner. Safeties get thrown on directly WAY less often. So the data is too diluted.

    But in Caroline he was 35 of 49 for 338 yards, 0 TDs and 1 INT in the slot on 300 snaps. Those are good numbers. But on the perimeter, 38 of 48 for 424 yards, 4 TDs and 2 INTs...on 238 snaps. Those are bad numbers on the perimeter. No other way to put it.

    The same is really true when you run Dimitri Patterson's slot versus perimeter numbers. Very good from the slot...but BAD from the perimeter.
     
    djphinfan likes this.
  9. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    That and having two rookie corners who couldn't cover worth of damn.

    And those corners turned out to be worth a 2nd round pick for one of them and a $6 million a year contract for the other. They weren't "busts" by any means. They were just terrible as rookies because most rookies are terrible even if they end up good. Mo Claiborne was bad this year too.
     
  10. PhinsRDbest

    PhinsRDbest Transform and Transcend

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    the next dimension
    My gut tells me they are waiting on cutting Marshall and Petterson until they have there replacements.
     
  11. thisperishedmin

    thisperishedmin Well-Known Member

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    In addition to the other stuff...

    http://boards.baltimoreravens.com/topic/51950-preston-harbaugh-clearing-out-mutineers/page__st__40

    I can't find the original "ravens insider" link that allegedly exists...I saw the same quote on several sites though, so take it for what its worth.

    As others have pointed out - He'd be a bit of a duplicate Rashad Jones, debatably with less upside anyway.


    Back on topic: I'll agree with the rest of the baord that I'm getting anxious over the corner situation. I'd like if we signed at least one in FA and grabbed 1 somewhere in the draft...
     
    Fin D likes this.
  12. Jcouch1021

    Jcouch1021 New Member

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    Apologies I meant star then banks with our second
     
  13. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Aqib Talib, Brent Grimes, Nnamdi Asomugha, Antoine Winfield, E.J. Biggers, Tracy Porter, Terrance Newman, Pacman Jones, Antoine Cason, DeAngelo Hall and Captain Munnerlyn are the most significant corners remaining on market. Not sure you could count on anyone else to start.

    Among them I like Grimes, Biggers, Jones and Munnerlyn. I suppose I could settle for any of the others but I wouldn't be thrilled about it.
     
  14. Gunner

    Gunner Rock Hunter

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    A starting duo of Jones and Talib could make life interesting ... off the field :D
     
  15. PhinsRDbest

    PhinsRDbest Transform and Transcend

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    the next dimension
    2 of those 4 works for me.
     
  16. Jcouch1021

    Jcouch1021 New Member

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    Wasn't hall signed?
     
  17. Dolphins1Beatles

    Dolphins1Beatles Ziggy Stardust

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    Hope we get someone. Even if its old Woodson. Going to rely on rookies at that position when we're facing these franchise QB's?: Brady x2, Roethlisberger, Flacco, Brees, Ryan, Luck. Dalton as well.
     
  18. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Was he? My bad if so.
     
  19. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    We need guys that can play on the perimeter. No scheme makes you suddenly ok if you have corners that can't play football at the positions they're being asked to play. I could MAYBE buy Nolan Carroll on the outside...but I can't buy Nolan Carroll on the outside while proven bad perimeter performers like Marshall and Patterson are also counted on there. Recipe for disaster. A good way to waste decent moves elsewhere on the football team.
     
  20. Lee2000

    Lee2000 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I am seeing Patterson and Marshall as being on this roster. They are around the same age and still under 30. I think they will stick. Probably draft at least two guys. Would love to see at least one free agent signed.
     
  21. Lee2000

    Lee2000 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    We know Lewis is gone and Cason is considering offers. I like Grimes and Munnerlyn. I want at least one free agent. I agree that going into the year with Marshall and Patterson isn't comforting.
     
    finyank13 likes this.
  22. frags

    frags New Member

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    Reason being is that the Ravens are cutting veterans to more or less start fresh and avoid what occurred with PIT the last two years ie stretch veteran contracts to make a run, but handicap yourself for 3 years thereafter. Ravens cut some weight, to a degree, after the 2000 Super Bowl as well.




    On another note, I REALLY wanted Keenan Lewis. He will be an elite corner in very little time. Instead of spending money on limping retreads like Keller or wannabe #1 corners like Sean Smith we should have allocated the money to Lewis at $6m per year.
     
  23. Dol Fan99

    Dol Fan99 Active Member

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    Im still a little confused about letting smith walk. Why would we not match the chiefs offer, which was pretty damn low if you ask me. We already had one of the worst pass defenses in the league so why would we let our only cb walk for such a cheap price and be forced to look to elsewhere for a cb who arguably wont be as good. Rhodes or even a trade up for Milliner with Sean Smith wouldve been nice. Now we need 2 cbs... Meanwhile were paying Ellerbe and Wheeler a pretty good chunk of money, despite both of their inexperience, to improve (long term) a front seven that WAS ALREADY GOOD and a run D that was GREAT. Im not saying I didnt like the LB moves we made but for heavens sake Smith wouldve been cheap and do nothing but help us.
     
    LBsFinest likes this.
  24. RickyBobby

    RickyBobby VIP DIY

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    I think you are seriously overstating the possibility of 2 rookies starting next year.

    ATM we have 3 CBs who have started in this league.

    I know your stuck on the release of the CBs but I see no way we cut both and we might end up keeping them both
     
  25. The G Man

    The G Man Git 'r doooonnne!!!

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    Because he's not very good. Just sayin. :wink2:
     
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  26. Phins_Fan_87

    Phins_Fan_87 Phins and Heat fan Club Member

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    beasley
     
  27. Dol Fan99

    Dol Fan99 Active Member

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    I agree with that but hes worthy of a starting job unless you have two very good cbs and looking at our other options I cant see anyone left in FA that would be much better except for Grimes IMO. You cant really depend on a rookie being any better either.

    FYI, since joining this forum Ive never told you this considering I dont post too much but your avatar is unreal
     
  28. frags

    frags New Member

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  29. finyank13

    finyank13 Reality Check

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    I have been prescribing to the Grimes and Rhodes theory now for a while.....

     
  30. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Richard Marshall and Dimitri Patterson on the perimeter are just as bad as rookies. Hate to say it but it's true. Nolan Carroll is a little better than that I'll grant you.
     
  31. Lee2000

    Lee2000 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    You are looking at Patterson and Marshall and understudies at 12, or in the first three rounds. I like the Slay kid from Mississippi State. Looking at your mock draft I know you don't believe Miami would draft a late round cb going into the season with this current group of corners.
     
  32. Anonymous

    Anonymous Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Can Brent Grimes play in a zone scheme? I remember reading Antoine Casone can, not sure about Grimes. Either way, one of them could be an option. Pretty good options at that.
     
  33. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I really like Porter from some limited action.
     
  34. jw3102

    jw3102 season ticket holder

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    According to reports, the Dolphins never even offered Smith a contract at any price. So obviously the coaching staff and Ireland didn't feel Smith was a player they wanted on the roster any longer, even if the price was "cheap", as you stated. The fact that Davis was traded before last season and Smith was not deemed important enough to even offer a contract to actually implies that the Dolphins made a huge mistake when they drafted these two players in the 2009 draft.

    Hopefully Ireland will do a better job in finding permanent CB replacements for both Smith and Davis. I do agree that CB has now become a priority area of need for the Dolphins.
     
  35. gandalfin

    gandalfin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I'm pretty neutral on Ireland but how could he predict that Smith and Davis would be wrong for a Philbin/Coyle defense?
     
    Stitches likes this.
  36. jw3102

    jw3102 season ticket holder

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    Perhaps if the Dolphins had done a better job in the 2008, 2009, 2010, and 2011 drafts, there wouldn't be a Philbin/Coyle defense needed for the Dolphins. Personally I think Davis would have been a good fit for this defense but the coaching staff appeared to give up on him early in training camp last year. I realize it was a maturity issue with him, but the Colts coaching staff appeared willing to deal with Davis and I think they will benefit over the long run with him as one of their starting CB's.

    As far as Smith goes, I never was high on him to begin with and I'm not sure he will work out long term in any defense in the NFL. I think his selection was a mistake by Ireland or Parcells or whomever decided to draft him.
     
  37. Lee2000

    Lee2000 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    As of right now, your starting cbs are Patterson, Marshall, and Carroll if you count nickle. Patterson and Marshall are in the same age range and they are under 30. If completely healthy, maybe they are better than we think. But I am certainly not confident in that group of starters. The draft my be the hunting grounds for cbs and tight ends, and maybe OL this year Would be nice to get at least one comp. pick.
     
  38. CANEPHINS

    CANEPHINS No Tats & Dreads Allowed

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    I would feel a lot more comfortable if it was Patterson & Grimes starting with Marshall as the 3 and Carroll no longer on the roster.
     
  39. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    You ever wonder why Sparano can't keep a job?
     
  40. Lee2000

    Lee2000 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Right now the corners on the roster are Carroll, part time corner Wilson, Pressley, Sanford, Patterson, and Marshall, and maybe another street guy. If I have any passing attack I am probably drooling on that group.
     

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