1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Hartline Signed

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by MAFishFan, Mar 7, 2013.

  1. Eop05

    Eop05 Junior Member Club Member

    5,659
    5,268
    113
    Dec 8, 2007
    NJ
    Very good point. Philbin as re-iterated this on many occassions prior to the 2012 season.

    He probably believes he can get the most out of Mike Wallace and his rare abilities.
     
  2. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

    27,364
    31,261
    113
    Apr 6, 2008
    Or perhaps you're taking a quote out of context? I thought he was talking about OL blocking when he said that. Our WR position is different. They have to know the offense about as well as the QB. They have to be able to make the same site adjustments at the line and during the route that RT is making.
     
  3. Dolphrank

    Dolphrank New Member

    131
    42
    0
    Jan 10, 2013
    PA
    That is definitely the new logo...the only color shot I can find has a caption covering the logo. Dammit.
     
  4. PhinGeneral

    PhinGeneral PC Texas A&M, Bro Club Member

    9,802
    7,239
    113
    Jan 4, 2008
    Swamps of Jersey
    On its surface I think we overpaid a bit. Having said that though, I'd like to see how the numbers play out. Ben Volin seems to indicate this year's cap hit will only be in the 3.5- 4 million range, and the guaranteed money isn't particularly terrible. The cap is also scheduled to take a fairly sizable jump by the time year 3 of his contract rolls around, so it could very well be that he's either worth his cap hit by the end of his deal or he gets cut.
     
    ToddPhin likes this.
  5. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

    72,252
    43,684
    113
    Nov 27, 2007
    So?

    The point being 2 WRs on the same team had more 1st downs each. Its just for perspective when we're ready to tout Hartline's 48 as some sort of big deal.
     
  6. GMJohnson

    GMJohnson New Member

    14,291
    5,841
    0
    Jan 27, 2010
    I agree with all of that.

    Id also point out that I doubt we'd be offering a major contract to any one if we had doubts about whether they could learn the offense. And any coaching staff who can't find a way to attack defenses with a guy like Wallace is in the wrong line of work.

    The other arguement is that he's not worth the contract he's going to command. Ok. But what are the alternatives? Pay Jennings? He's 30 and most likely in decline. It'd be a contract of diminishing returns as he ages. Or we could gamble on finding plug and play guys in the draft. If we sign MW we can focus on other positions in the draft and take a WR if we like the value. No MW means we are desperate, probably reaching, probably playing whoever we draft regardless of whether they are ready, or going with the same group we had las year. None of the options are risk free but I'd err on the side of signing one of the premier WRs in the league.
     
  7. Springveldt

    Springveldt Season Ticket Holder

    It won't be anywhere near $20M this season though, I'd image Hartline will cost $3-$4M against the cap this season. Even if we did spend big on Wallace at $11-$12M a season his cap figure this year will probably be around $7M (depending on how the contract is structured). So you would be looking at Bess at $3M, Hartline at $4M and Wallace at $7M.

    Incidentally if you look at Bowe's deal he is counting only $4M against the cap this year but it will jump up to around $12M next year.

    I'm thinking the last year of the Hartline deal will probably have a high salary and count like $10M against the cap. If that's the case then he won't see that year and in effect we signed a good #2 WR for around $5M a season.
     
  8. Two Tacos

    Two Tacos Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    11,121
    5,828
    113
    Nov 24, 2007
    That team had about 100 more first downs than the Dolphins did. Hartline had a larger portion of the Dolphins total first downs than either of the Denver players had of the Bronco's total first downs. 16.6% vs 15.7% and 13%. Per ESPN Dolphins had 288 first downs and the Broncos 380. The Broncos were a better offensive team, and players put up betters stats when they play on better teams.

    http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/team/_/stat/downs
     
    MrClean likes this.
  9. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

    72,252
    43,684
    113
    Nov 27, 2007
    I see, so you tell me, take either of those players ans swap them with Hartline.....you really think Hartline would get a lot more firsts then they did there? Would they get a lot less than he did here? TDs? Yards?

    C'mon.
     
  10. Two Tacos

    Two Tacos Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    11,121
    5,828
    113
    Nov 24, 2007
    Wait, so now you don't want to put the stats into perspective? The point is Hartline on that team with that QB does way better, and those guys do way worse on the Dolphins. Hartlines 48 first downs meant a lot to this team. And for the record, yes Hartline gets more first downs on the Broncos last year than either of those two do on the Dolphins last year.
     
    MrClean likes this.
  11. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

    72,252
    43,684
    113
    Nov 27, 2007
    No way. No how.

    And you're the one manipulating the stats. Each had more first downs then Hartline. That's the important part. The part where who gets what total percentage in the rain during the winter when down by 4 is manipulation.
     
  12. Stitches

    Stitches ThePhin's Biggest Killjoy Luxury Box

    53,148
    31,935
    113
    Nov 23, 2007
    Katy, TX
    I don't know how they'd do here or he'd do there, but I bet if Hartline had 9 more receptions last year he'd have at least 4 more first downs (tying Decker), and same goes for getting the same # of receptions as Thomas. Hartline's 1st down catch percentage was 64.8%, while Decker's was 61.2% and Thomas' was 63.8%.
     
    MrClean and KB21 like this.
  13. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

    40,533
    33,035
    113
    Dec 11, 2007
    I might be crazy, but I honestly believe that Hartline would have had a better season if Peyton Manning was throwing him the football.

    I am not saying Hartline is excellent or even great. However looking at Miami's wide receivers since Marino, a receiver having 1,000 yard seasons are few and far between. Why give up a receiver who is capable of doing that, especially why would you try to replace him next season with a rookie?
     
  14. Stitches

    Stitches ThePhin's Biggest Killjoy Luxury Box

    53,148
    31,935
    113
    Nov 23, 2007
    Katy, TX
    I have no doubt Hartline would be better (and likely more efficient) with Manning throwing him the ball last year as opposed to Tannehill, but couldn't begin to guess exact numbers.
     
  15. dolfan22

    dolfan22 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    Or wrong most of the time.

    The fact is this poster has been so bad with his definitive statements that no validity should be paid to his pronouncements. If you aren't aware , you can find out just how wrong he has been. When you place yourself on a pedestal and do that without earning it , you should be expected to be called out.

    Less than 1% chance to EVER even play ... if he is as right about Wallace as that stance from him , Wallace will be a first ballot HOF'er.
     
    MrClean likes this.
  16. dolfan22

    dolfan22 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    LOL . oh ok ....He doesn't need anyone but himself to show how poor his talent is at being right.
     
  17. Steve-Mo

    Steve-Mo 'Saban' Guy

    4,355
    397
    83
    Apr 14, 2010
    Western New York
    Well, at least you've made it clear it's not personal.
     
  18. hammer

    hammer New Member

    170
    51
    0
    Sep 13, 2011
    Beavercreek Ohio
    I've no problem with Hartline resigning. I do have a problem with Hartline AND Bess on the field at the same time though. Bess must go.
     
  19. Rouk

    Rouk Well-Known Member

    1,801
    857
    113
    Jul 31, 2011
    Hollywood, Florida
    why are so many of you guys looking at hartlines stats this year as the number 1 wr and thinking hes going to have the same stats next year. Look at when he was the 2 on our team he got 65 targets and had worse year than bess this guy is so overrated on these forums its incredible.
     
  20. PlanB

    PlanB New Member

    949
    230
    0
    Mar 6, 2013
    I'm happy. He did some great things last year. But we are not a better Team yet. I can only imagine how much better he can be with another serious threat lined up next to him taking the heat off.
     
  21. Anonymous

    Anonymous Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    13,969
    3,367
    113
    Jul 5, 2009
    Thanks!
     
  22. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

    42,442
    24,982
    113
    Jul 6, 2012
    NC
    Armando's twitter says Miami said it's not the new logo.
     
  23. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    111,650
    67,542
    113
    Dec 20, 2007
    casper??
     
  24. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    I don't get the idea Jennings is too old. Irving Fryar was older when we traded for him. Anquan Boldin is older and he tore it up last season for the Ravens with no signs of slowing down. Reggie Wayne is at least 3 years older, and the Colts resigned him and he had a fine year as Luck's #1 weapon. Fryar had his two best seasons in Philly, after he wasn't resigned by Miami, at age 34.
     
    cullenbigcstill, Fin D and NJFINSFAN1 like this.
  25. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    The truth now comes out. This is the reason why you don't want Miami to sign him. :lol:
     
  26. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    They had more sustained drives because of having more weapons on offense. So it stands to reason, running more plays will mean more total first downs.
     
  27. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    And if Hartline lives up to his contract the first 4 seasons, they'll probably rework and extend him at that point.
     
  28. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    If Hartline played in place of Decker for Denver, yes he would have had more 1st down catches than he did here.
     
  29. KB21

    KB21 Almost Never Wrong Club Member

    24,029
    40,478
    113
    Dec 6, 2007
    No, that's just one of the reasons. If he fit the offense, I'd suck it up and support him. Problem is, he doesn't.
     
  30. LBsFinest

    LBsFinest Banned

    3,972
    2,062
    0
    Jul 24, 2012
    honestly Hartline should give half his deal to Ireland. He's the only GM in the league that would hand Hartline a #1 receiver role, allowing him the opportunity to put up 1000 yards in a contract year and "earn" this deal.
     
    TooGoodForDez likes this.
  31. LBsFinest

    LBsFinest Banned

    3,972
    2,062
    0
    Jul 24, 2012
    Comparable free agent WRs that we could've signed for less: Brandon Gibson, Ogletree, Hixon, maybe even Amendola
     
    TooGoodForDez likes this.
  32. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    In Mississippi, do most people either love Ole Miss or MSU and hate the other? Here, many people are that way about Oregon and OSU. I'm not though. I like Oregon better, but if OSU plays any team besides Oregon I root for them.
     
  33. Lee2000

    Lee2000 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    17,637
    14,092
    113
    Mar 23, 2008
    Pearl, Mississippi
    How would you feeel about Jamie Collins KB?
     
  34. KB21

    KB21 Almost Never Wrong Club Member

    24,029
    40,478
    113
    Dec 6, 2007
    Yes. It is a blood feud. I'd pull for Iraq before I'd pull for Ole Miss.

    Haven't paid much attention to him, but I don't mind USM players. Patrick Surtain was a Southern Miss guy.
     
  35. DevilFin13

    DevilFin13 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    9,713
    6,282
    113
    Mar 22, 2008
    I'm happy. We signed a good, young player for not a ton of money. Seems pretty low risk. I'll be happy if he gives us what he did last year. If he can do that and get lucky (which is what a significant % of receiving TDs is) and get some more TDs I think everyone will (or should) like this deal.
     
  36. KB21

    KB21 Almost Never Wrong Club Member

    24,029
    40,478
    113
    Dec 6, 2007
    In fact, I married a Southern Miss girl. I've converted her, but she went to Southern Miss.

    Collins played at Franklin County high didn't he? I'm thinking he was a quarterback in high school. Played for Grady McClusky, who coached at my home town high school Ripley after he coached at Franklin County.
     
  37. Fineas

    Fineas Club Member Luxury Box

    18,216
    23,518
    113
    Jan 5, 2008
    I think it is more the injuries than the age, although the age makes the concern about injury a little stronger. Fryar and Wayne had no injury issues at the times you referenced. Boldin had missed some time a few years before going to Baltimore but played 15 games (and played well) the season before the trade. Jennings missed more time this past year and didn't play especially well when he did play.
     
  38. TooGoodForDez

    TooGoodForDez Deion Sanders for GM

    3,840
    636
    0
    Feb 26, 2013
    Add Jordan Shipley to the list. But the essential problem here is not that hartline got too much money over replacement. The problem here is that this FO is content with Hartline at WR. For that they should all be fired.
     
  39. Lee2000

    Lee2000 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    17,637
    14,092
    113
    Mar 23, 2008
    Pearl, Mississippi
    I am not necessarily a combine fan, but he tore it up.
     
  40. Lee2000

    Lee2000 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    17,637
    14,092
    113
    Mar 23, 2008
    Pearl, Mississippi
    I believe you are right. He was a safety initally at USM, but grew into linebacker. I am from Iuka, and when I was at Iuka High School we played Ripley in the Tombigbee conference. One of the biggest guys I went up against was a OT from Ripley (weighed almost 400 pounds).
     

Share This Page