Darlington: Ireland admits he made mistakes with the receiver position last year

I've always liked Ross, always thought his intentions were good, and he was willing to spend, what should be interesting is what he'll do if a community denies his request to meet him half way..

 

Ireland's new nickname should be Captain Obvious?

 

Occassionally some of us resort to X-file agents, but in general my memory is not that long. I do pay attention when the same arguments keep coming up. That is a symptom of a problem that hasn't been resolved. It is easy to cherry pick things you don't like about this or that, but when you see that go on like we have over recent years, it is a possible indication of things that need to be fixed at the core.
I generally think you bring sensibility to our rants and raves. I like your analysis, and you have your opinions, as we all do. My idea of a forum is to express the good and the bad and in the long term support our team the best we can.
I do find it interesting CK that an area (Miami) that appears to be appealing to most of us (beaches, warm climate, no sales tax) is not more of a drawing card for potential free agents. I would like to know the simple explanation for that.

 

Like this?:

"After finally repairing a salary-cap situation that helped drive former coach Nick Saban out of town following the 2006 campaign, Miami now has some coin to play with."

He gave quite a few guys big $$ way after 2006...

 

IMO, he is talking about not rating local guys like Jimmie Graham and T.Y. Hilton high enough and missing on drafting them.

 

Darlington is saying Bline will sign for slightly less than 7 millie per yr in the coming days.

 

On the plus side if Ireland does screw up.....his contract ends after this season. Ross is patient..but I can't see him being patient enough to give him new money without a significant improvement in this team (ie: playoffs)

 

Couldn't be more obvious. He's admitting it in a hope to get some more credibility but we all know its because Its just so blatantly obvious.

 

you realize it was Parcells who wouldn't pull the string on Graham, right?

 

How do you know this?

 

I'd like to remind everyone that his time in Cleveland was not a mirage. And unless Bledsoe gets hurt, history may be very different.

Not saying he hasn't improved, but I'd like to see him win something without Tom Brady.

 

Well if you question that then Ireland can be blamed and those supporters of his won't have any of that. Truth is no one knows, and probably never will know who made what decisions during the Fat Asses time here. That is why Ireland must shoulder some of the blame - because he was part of the decision making team at the time, you know it, I know it and the Ireland Apologists know it too. It's just they refuse to ever admit it.

 

Well we'll find out, because if this does go to a vote, its going to be a very, very decisive vote against - I predict something like 80-85% against. This is just the very WORST time to asking for this. Just as the Marlins season is starting and the reminder of the disaster that Marlins Park has become is in the forefront with the new season starting.

They are talking record low numbers attending Opening Day, and during the season for the Marlins this year, as the fans in DROVES are boycotting them. Some estimates have the team selling less than 1,000 season tickets all because fans believe the team will stink and lose 100+ games this year (very possible). That just pisses a lot of people off that we are paying for this and now another billionaire is coming around with his hand out asking for money, meanwhile he's jetting here and there, has a multimillion dollar apartment on the East Side in NYC, a Palm Beach mansion and there are people who are voting who know of a brother, or sister, or cousin that used to work for the fire dept, or were a police officer who are now laid off.

DJ I can't see why you don't understand this. I know you support the project, and I absolutely believe in the project too, I just don't understand why Ross is pushing this only to be humiliated at the polls, and for what reason ? Is he going to punish us without doing it himself ? If he's going to have to do it anyways, why all the public show ? Just get on with it and we'd already be that much farther down the line in getting it done, and without the cost to the public for this stupid vote - you do realize this selfish whim of asking for a public vote costs the taxpayers money ? Silly and needless bye elections cost extra millions of public money. To me this is very selfish of Ross.

Ross just pay for it yourself, and get it done, without the Dog & Pony Show.

 

Or not...look, I've argued with my bosses many times about the direction we should go in certain situations and lost probably about as many as I've won (arguments) and lost just about as many as I've won (how MY theory on the issue eventually worked out)... On this board, we've spent so much time arguing who did what for nothing. It really doesn't matter who did what in 2008 because Steven Ross decided that Irish wasn't responsible for what happened back then when Quitcells earned his nickname (you know, quit on us) and then when Ross dumped Sparano. What happened in 2008-2011 won't matter to Ross. Whats happened since then will and that will be the reason Ireland is fired or not (whenever that happens)... It's pretty simple and I could say this if I were "an apologist" or I were the originator of Fireland. At this point, I'm only concerned about what he does NOW.

Back on topic, if we acquire Wallace, it'll be a decision that Philbin is in on and feels that he can utilize the skillset that he brings here effectively, unless we are outbid. I'm sure that Ross, Ireland and Philbin have a figure planned out that they can't/won't go over to acquire Wallace. If we should be outbid (due to money, length of contract, situation (I mean, if NE comes in and offers him equal money he likely will take the established team over this one) then I can understand that... Of course if that does happen, some will claim Ireland is a guffaw and that is why he's playing for NE and others will claim that we were simply outbid and it wasn't Irish tripping over his d*** that caused us to lose his services.

Either way, the final product will be what defines things. If they get Dominic Hixon and he turns into what we wanted with Wallace, does it really matter?? If we get Hartline and Hixon/Jennings/Wallace/any other FA wr and we are 11-5 next season and challenging, will it matter?? What is certain, to me, is that Irish as made his bed at this point. How he fares in THIS fa period and THIS draft will determine his fate here....He's put himself in a situation to succeed. Just like coaches want to do with players. What happens now is anyone guess. I think that a lot of this bantering in the media is simple he said/she said and doesn't hold a lot of water this time of the NFL year, so I don't get too enamored with anything said in the press....it's all being put out there by either the agents or the team to distract opponents as to what direction they want to go in, including pieces on Irish getting caught with his pants down last offseason...(which may or may not be true)

 

It's already been discussed on this board, and it was from Parcells' mouth. Miami wanted Graham but Parcells wouldn't draft him until the 4th round. Then Parcells called Sean Payton to congratulate him on the pick. Parcells also warns about trends like drafting TEs and believes Gronk & Graham's success is more due to the system they play in rather than their respective talent.

And you both sit here and blame Ireland for Miami not taking a TE early while Parcells was in charge? Please. Some of you who despise Ireland sure as hell seem to not know much about what you're actually despising. Try at least Googling some s*** for a change rather than throwing out crazy accusation after crazy accusation all the whilst claiming ignorance. At least have the decency to be accurate about what you criticize like others on this forum do. BTW, nice backfire there on your part, oakelmpine.

 

Please stop embarrassing yourself. As much as it pains me to say it, he's a HOF head coach WITH EASE. Not a coach in the NFL (and perhaps all time) who has successfully done more adapting and staying ahead of the league than Belichick. You're forgetting Brady wasn't yet Brady when the Pats won their first 2 SBs with Tom posting a passer rating of 86..... and you're also conveniently forgetting the Giants rode Belichick's #1 & #2 ranked scoring defense to 2 SB titles. He's won with defense; he's won with offense. The guy is a coaching genius plain and simple. Who else in the league goes 11-5 with a QB who hasn't played since high school and makes that worthless QB look so good he receives a high 2nd rounder for him and has half the fans (including many here) thinking the 2nd was a steal for KC when in fact it was Belichick getting the steal.

BTW, when the Pats went 11-5 in 2008 w/o Brady and lost to Peyton Manning 18-15, Belichick was a 15 yard unnecessary roughness penalty [by David Thomas] away from either sending it to OT on a FG or driving to win it. That one penalty cost him the division and a 12 win season despite Matt freakin Cassell at QB. Plus he lost 34-31 in OT to the Jets & Favre b/c NY won the overtime coin flip and kicked a FG during the first possession.

 

Didn't he make the playoffs one year in Cleveland? Also, I wouldn't count the last season there against any coach. The team was in turmoil as well as the entire fanbase because of the well known impending move to Baltimore.

 

Here's a little piece of useless trivia for everyone. Parcells has never won a Super Bowl without Belichick on staff, and Belichick has never won one without Romeo Crennel and Charlie Weis on staff.

 

Hey man, starting talking American around here. That's a Limey word.

 

There is some truth to this. Gronk and Graham are both very talented, but they also play in very well designed offenses with elite QBs. There are a lot of plays where Gronk gets wide open due to scheme, as opposed to anything he is doing. That's not to say he and Graham wouldn't be very productive players in other systems, but I think their production might be as much as 40% less in other systems. Having said that, I think there is ample opportunity for the Dolphins to use a TE in similar ways and get great production from the position.

 

And, not even trying to sign Sam Shields as a UDFA because he didn't know the name of our DB coach. How frigging silly is that? Why would we even ask a rookie before the draft to name any of our position coaches? That seems as trivial to me as whether they prefer apple pie or pecan pie. Yeah Sam, you should have sat down and memorized the names of all the 32 DB coaches in the league because that is so damned important when it comes to how you do your job.

 

Wasn't that Sparano that got all pissed about that? I agree with you..what a dumb reason not to sign a guy.

 

can't disagree entirely..... but why would anyone downplay a guy who can produce 1000+ yards and 10+ TDs, scheme or no scheme?

Part of Gronk & Graham's great statistical success may be due to scheme, but at the same time their teams can't bring in some average TE and expect to duplicate the results. IMO that was the flaw in Parcells' thinking. Who gives a poop if the scheme helps them. Massive production is massive production, yet Parcells treats it like it's not worth higher than a 4th rounder simply b/c it comes from the TE position. Scheme doesn't make Gronk the outstanding blocker he is, but I guess that was lost in the mix by Parcells.

 

Here are some things that concerned me about that article.

1. A mistake. There seems to be a rush to forgive his mistake simply because he confessed it to Jeff Darlington. Sort of, "Aww shucks, we forgive ya"...mostly because he admits the mistake. But a mistake is a mistake. It's his job to evaluate the market for players and it's also his job to think on his feet and assess whether he's been grossly mistaken about something in a short span of time. With respect to Vincent Jackson and Pierre Garcon he was confronted with a very different level of demand than he'd been building in. If that was a mistake, and he was confronted with it, re-assess and improvise in time to get back into the bidding. Instead he waited a year and then decided it was a mistake. He's essentially admitting we were a much worse football team in 2012 than we could have been because he made a mistake.

2. History. Thing is, he's got a history of this. He also mis-evaluated the market for Carson Palmer and spent an entire 2011 off season saying he was going to find competition for Chad Henne and then blatantly not doing so, because of that mis-evaluation. The Carson Palmer thing is well-documented by Armando Salguero, complete with direct quotes from people inside the building. In this article, Darlington points out that Jeff could have fallen into a trap with Kyle Orton, but he chose not to. But the reason he chose not to was because he'd put his eggs in the basket of trying to get Mike Brown to relent on his asking price for Carson Palmer, which all-around just ended up being a bad idea. So really we've seen this before.

3. Brandon Marshall. Is this mistake the reason why they traded Brandon Marshall? SO MUCH is just flat out assumed about the reason they traded Brandon Marshall, and who was responsible. The General Manager has the final say in his contract, his finger on the trigger, he's ultimately responsible. I think most people recognize that. But we don't know whether Joe Philbin put his foot down and said "no way, no how" on Marshall. I think some people naturally do assume that, based on nothing in particular, but we have no idea. Does this revelation from Darlington provide new evidence, a new glimpse into the mindset that resulted in trading away one of the league's very best wide receivers in exchange for Michael Egnew and a 3rd round pick to come? Clearly what you have here is an admission from Jeff Ireland that he thought it would be relatively easy to replace Brandon Marshall with a big time talent like Vincent Jackson, Pierre Garcon, or at the very least (if you believe our own little insider reports), Jeremy Maclin or Nate Washington. Or James Jones (which was reported by the media). He mis-evaluated the market and asking prices for these players, and could not come to terms. But the fact that he tried and mis-evaluated gives us a glimpse into his mind set when he traded Marshall...which was that there are all these players out there and surely I should be able to snag a replacement.

4. Over-correction. Vincent Jackson and Pierre Garcon are better players than Mike Wallace. They're more well-rounded. By switching gears and slamming his foot on the gas with Mike Wallace, he's very much in danger of getting whipsawed. Too late in the realization of the opportunity he had with Vincent Jackson and Pierre Garcon, and too late in the realization that this doesn't suddenly reverse a long history of "big name" free agent wide receivers not being worth their price tags.

I mean I know that Darlington intentionally tried to write this piece in praise of Jeff Ireland's ability to adapt and admit a mistake and all that...but I see multiple costly mistakes made, followed by a POTENTIAL over-reaction which may turn out to bring with it another costly mistake.

It's just another piece of evidence that Jeff Ireland is still in over his head as a General Manager.

That's what I think, and it's what I did not want to say because I know several members on here will harrass me personally for the opinion, rather than just debate the points I've raised.

 

Not sure why you'd be harrassed rather than just have your points addressed. Not that I agree with all you put down, it's not harassment-worthy.

 

History suggests otherwise.

 

I do think Ireland has reached a point where giving him credit for cutting ties with mistakes should have translated into less mistakes. Grove was a mistake. And Smiley. And Marshall. And picks like Pat Turner. And Pat White. Failed attempts to attract Harbaugh and Fisher and Manning. Trading Vontae so we could sign Smith, and now not signing Smith.

I give him credit for not chaining himself to unproductive players, but I'd like to see him making less mistakes and more good decisions. I don't know that he's increased the number of good decisions or decreased the number of bad ones. He, and the team, seem to be treading water.

 

I just think this is a pretty big mistake to be fessing up to and it's being overlooked because people appreciate the fact that he admitted it and is trying to learn from it.

Whether he learned the right lesson from the mistake though...remains to be seen. I know several respectable people around here would probably say he must not be learning the right lesson from the mistake if the lesson he learned is that he needs to give $12 or $13 million a year to Mike Wallace.

 

I don't think Parcells treats it like it's not worth higher than a 4th rounder simply b/c it comes from the TE position. I think he didn't value Graham higher as a draft prospect because he was very inexperienced and unproductive in college. Parcells highly values experience and production. Parcells teams have drafted TEs higher than the 4th round, e.g., Becht (1, with Parcells as GM), Witten (3), Fasano (2). Personally, I think Parcells has some credibility with regard to the TE position, as his teams have traditionally given the TE a bigger role than virtually any other coach. He may be the only coach to have 2 different TE's have 1000 yard receiving seasons (Bavaro and Coates). He is almost certainly the only one to have 3 TEs have 900+ receiving yard seasons (Bavaro, Coates and Witten).

The Pats and Saints may not be able to duplicate the results 100% without Gronk or Graham, but they can get very good TE production without them. The year before Graham got to NO they got 88 receptions for 947 yards from their TEs. Graham's first year there, they got 71 for 627 from other TEs in addition to what Graham gave them. That was a TE-friendly offense before Graham got there. In the 5 games that Gronk missed this past season, the Pats got 34 receptions for 415 yards out of their TEs. That averages out to almost 7 receptions a game for 83 yards, which projects to 112 receptions for 1328 yards over a 16 game season. Yeah, Hernandez is talented too, but they also had Michael Hoomanawanui averaging 29 ypc with receptions of 32 and 41 yards during that 5 game stretch. Daniel Fells added a 24 yarder too.

 

Ireland's handling of the receiver situation, including his interactions on HBO, is without a doubt my biggest issue with him. I think he set up his rookie qb for failure. I think you could credit the coaching staff and Tannehill for handling that situation, grossly mishandled by Ireland. With that said, I don't believe he is completely incompetent, but I don't agree witih Polian's view of his skill set either. I think your points were well made, and while some may be arguable, no one could say they are not well thought out and analytical.

 

He isn't going publicly fessing up. I think any organization looks their mistakes and tries to learn from them. I am sure Belicheck does the same thing. I highly doubt good GMs like Ozzie Newsome go around their office telling everyone they are perfect and never make a mistake.

I do think the question is, if he learned from it. If he did learn from it and got better at his job, I would rather him be good in Miami and then getting fired and doing a good job with another team.

If he doesn't learn and messes up again, he should be fired, and go to mess up another team.

I am interested to see what he does this offseason. I do agree that giving Wallace a huge contract might look like not learning from his mistake. However if Wallace has a probowl season next year while Miami goes to the playoffs his move will look great.

He set himself up for a good offseason, now he better back it up.

 

I don't see any "rush to forgive his mistake simply because he confessed it to Jeff Darlington." Thsi thread is 6 pages long and nobody has said anything like that. All but one or two posts have been very critical of Ireland.

In truth, there wasn't much time to "reassess and get back into the bidding." Free agency opened on March 12. The Garcon deal was announced on March 13 and the Jackson deal was announced on March 14. I wanted Jackson even before the Marshall trade. My thinking was to keep Moore at QB coming off a nice second half of the season and give him two 6-5, 240 beasts to throw to, along with Bush in the backfield and Coby Fleener in the draft. I would have taken Russell Wilson in the 2nd and let him sit until either Moore showed he didn't deserve to start or Wilson deserved that he did. But I was very surprised by the VJackson deal and probably even more surprised by the Garcon deal. A lot of people were.

I'm not sure whether he mis-evaluated the market for Palmer or simply set a price/value that was less than what the Raiders ended up being willing to pay. Not sure it really matters though, because outbidding the Raiders would have been a mistake of epic proportions.

This is just speculation, as you acknowledge. But IMO the reports that Philbin did not want Marshall were very credible. They came from at least 2 of the more highly respected members of the local media as well as from some members of the national media. And it all made sense. The Joe Philbin that I saw in 2012 and in Hard Knocks would have not have liked or wanted Brandon Marshall.

We haven't actually signed Wallace yet. And while a fair case can be made that VJackson is better than Wallace, I don't think there is a strong case that Garcon is better.

I have no idea how you know that. He certainly doesn't say that or anything like that.

That's your opinion. I'm pretty sure he wasn't the first GM to have miscalculated the market for a certain player or type of player. I suspect that has probably happened at one time or another to every GM that has ever held the job for any appreciable amount of time.

 

Jeff Ireland is the reason it's embarrassing to be a dolphins fan nowadays.

 

A lot of speculation. As fans I am sure we will never really know motives and agendas, and that will keep the message boards busy. I have been on the side of things were people were judging or assessing my actions and I would have no clue they were reaching the conclusions they got, or even if I understood how they could have gotten the conclusions I was surprised as to how they reached them. I in turn have been completely off the beaten path in my conclusions about how something went down. Sometimes you just look at the outcomes and that is what counts. Right now we have a team sorely missing skill position players that make game changing plays. Beyond the debate as to how we got to that condition/situation, it is what it is. A deficiency. If Ireland doesn't make up for it soon, it will be the concern for a different guy.

Ireland has not been consistent enough in bringing playmakers to Miami. I actually understand the mistakes in attempting to do that more than I understand why free agents do not want to come to Miami. Is Jeff not approaching the right free agents, does the style of business get in the way (after listening to Dawn Aponte on HBO I do wonder), or is it environmental (simply not liking the area)? With all that said, it is all about outcome.

 

I think the FA thing has been blown waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay out of proportion. There was one or two guys who said they wouldn't come here because of Ireland, but I remember Chris Hope refusing to come here because of Saban. It happens. I think we don't land a lot of FAs because we don't generally overpay, not because people hate Ireland. If that's case, I'm ok with that.

 

What did I say that you think is speculation?

The truth is that no GM is all that consistent in bringing in playmakers. It's not like there are teams out there that have dozens of playmakers. The best teams have 2-4 on each side of the ball. I think we all hope that Tannehill is a playmaker. I think he is/will be. Brandon Marshall is a playmaker, although he didn't make as many plays here as I'd have liked. But he made some and his failure to make more wasn't an indictment of the personnel people as much as it was an indictment of coaching, etc. Reggie Bush is playmaker. I know some people don't like him and think he makes too many negative plays, but he makes positive ones too. I think Lamar Miller is or will be a playmaker. And it's pretty clear that we will add at least 1 WR who would be characterized as a playmaker. So that will be 5 offensive playmakers in 5+ seasons. Are there teams that have brought in more than 5 offensive playmakers in that same span? I'm not sure.

 

Chris Hope I remember refused to come here because Miami tried to get him to accept a lower offer and instead tried to sell him on what a great place South Florida is and what a storied franchise the Dolphins were. Hope said something like I don't care about all of that sh-t, I want to know what you're going to do for me money-wise.

 

I thought that was Ryan Clark