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Brian Hartline - FULL Touchdown Accounting

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by ckparrothead, Mar 1, 2013.

  1. Fin-Omenal

    Fin-Omenal Initiated

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    Not my decision to make, if Joe Philbin thinks he can get the most out of Mike Wallace then I wouldn't have a problem with Vincent Jackson money.

    Ireland won't force feed Wallace too Philbin IMO unless he is 100% behind it.

    So essentially I'm saying that IF we pay him that money?? It's for a damn good reason, and I for one will have my popcorn ready.
     
  2. GMJohnson

    GMJohnson New Member

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    My gut feeling is that Alen and KB are correct, Philbin values guys who can run routes, make adjustments, etc over guys with raw speed and ability, a la Clyde Gates. Irish wanted him bad but JP had no use for him. But you're right, I we do sign him it's bc JP signed off on it and already has plans for how to devastate teams with him on the field. I too would love to see Wallace down here roasting people, but if it doesn't happen I'd understand why.
     
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  3. Fin-Omenal

    Fin-Omenal Initiated

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    And that's my approach. Alen and KB are very detailed creatures but I feel like he still can improve on the little things while accidentally scoring 8+ TDs and demanding a double team.

    A guy named Chris Carter was once thought to be a one trick pony in Philadelphia...change of scenery and a new found work ethic and he is getting enshrined in Canton this August. Mike Wallace isn't a finished product in my opinion.

    But like you if we pass I will understand why.
     
  4. KB21

    KB21 Almost Never Wrong Club Member

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    There's one theory that when Leftwich and Batch had to play, they favored throwing the Sanders and Brown because they knew where those two would be on any given play. The word is, Wallace's route running is so bad that he was damn near useless without Ben's ability to improvise.
     
  5. KB21

    KB21 Almost Never Wrong Club Member

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    It is because we have seen it in action. There is no supposition here. He is very much below average at running any route that has him make a quick break, either a dig, an out route, or a come back. On digs and outs, he rounds his routes off and doesn't run them at the proper depth. On come backs, he has to gear down before making his break, as he is not a quick twitch player. He is really a bad fit all the way around for a passing offense that is based on timing and precise route running. He will not be a Miami Dolphin, and for that I am thankful.
     
  6. Fin-Omenal

    Fin-Omenal Initiated

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    Remains to be seen.

    Only point your making I will argue is the quick twitch. He is actually pretty good at beating press coverage and unless your a big strong WR, you need a "quick twitch" to do that.

    Also his ability to locate the ball in the air could make him dangerous on the back shoulder throws that Philbin watched Rodgers and Jennings hook up on numerous times. Again, if we pass I will get why. But if we sign him?? There is a lot to be excited for.
     
  7. KB21

    KB21 Almost Never Wrong Club Member

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    Yeah. You can get excited about an owner that thinks like a fan does and has a GM that will placate to his whims.
     
  8. Fin-Omenal

    Fin-Omenal Initiated

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    If he thought like a fan he would have drafted playmakers, not Centers and 3-4 DE's.

    I'm pretty confident a decision like Mike Wallace would need Philbin's endorsement, and rightfully so.
     
  9. huck1974

    huck1974 FU Gene Steratore

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    Well DUH,......One guy scores points. The other one does not.




     
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  10. SICK

    SICK Lounge Moderator

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    So, for fun, with these throws from Tannehill and seeing how he throws it up, back shoulder etc, and let the WR get it, how good would he had been with Brandon Marshall?!
     
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  11. unifiedtheory

    unifiedtheory Sub Pending Luxury Box

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    You want to sign Jennings, use a first and a 2nd on receivers and resign Hartline?

    Sounds great. Maybe one of those guys can play corner, edge rusher, tight end, develop into a linebacker we need, play back up running back, offensive tackle or free safety.

    Receivers are a need but they are not a need that makes it possible to blow every resource we have to over flood the position with talent, ignoring MAJOR needs on this team.

    If we sign Jennings/Wallace and resign Hartline with Bess on the roster and Mathews as the developmental guy we are in decent shape. Using a first rounder on a receiver at that point would be a massive waste with all our other needs. It would be idiotic. the only way I use a 1st and a 2nd on a receiver in this draft is if we don't sign Wallace/Jennings and Hartline walks.
     
  12. KB21

    KB21 Almost Never Wrong Club Member

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    Tannehill would have been great with someone of Marshall's ability without the me first attitude. Marshall will never be a fit in an offense that does not feature one receiver. He has to be the guy, or else you are going to have severe problems with him.
     
  13. WhiteIbanez

    WhiteIbanez Megamediocremaniacal

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    :lol:
     
  14. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    Compared to Arians' offense, Haley's offense is dink and dunk.
     
  15. KB21

    KB21 Almost Never Wrong Club Member

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    Maybe so, but Wallace had more deep targets this year than he had in any year prior, and he only caught 19% of them.

    As I linked in the other thread, Wallace admitted that he lost his focus when he wasn't involved for stretches during games, and it effected him when he had to make a play. This is the guy y'all want to give $10+ million a season to?
     
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  16. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    I'd prefer Bowe or Jennings, but if Ireland pursues Wallace I will have to believe it is with Philbin's approval.
     
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  17. TooGoodForDez

    TooGoodForDez Deion Sanders for GM

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    Hartline is alright. There aren't many boundary WRs in the draft. Patterson is one I would pick to replace Hartline, he is certainly the best boundary talent in this draft. After that it's Hopkins. But than it gets thin, with Patton, Dobson, Bailey. After Patterson there is no premium talent at boundary. We really screwed up by passing on Dez and Demaryius. Premium boundary talent is tough to get. I'd be OK if they keep Hartline for another year.
    But this draft is packed with premium grade slot receivers. Rogers (Boldin), Austin (Welker), Woods (Jennings). We are severly lacking in the slot with Bess, which is a pretty important position in our scheme. I think Dolphins should trade Bess, and he has some trade value, and replace him with one of these slot beasts. I think that would improve the team more than replacing Hartline.
    I would still like to come away with Patterson (boundary), Rogers (slot) in the first two rounds of the draft. Keep Hartline opposite Patterson or Hopkins or Mike Wallace.
     
  18. Just asking but why would you resign Hartline to a new contract if you were going to draft Patterson to replace him? Hartline would be looking for at least a 3yr commitment with garunteed money attached to it. Would it not be better to just move along without him if he is not in your plans?
     
  19. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    There was more deep passes thrown to Wallace this year than the last few as KB mentioned, but there was more than the past few years per PFF to all players. I think there was just more emphasis on timing and not school-yard style football and it's hard to understate how much of a whiny ******* Big Ben is.
     
  20. KB21

    KB21 Almost Never Wrong Club Member

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    I just don't see Joe Philbin going along with it, knowing the philosophy he comes from relative to what is expected out of the receivers. As the link I posted to you last night said, no receiver in this offense just runs three routes, and no receiver just plays the 2nd receiver spot. I don't see him getting excited about a player that does not run precise routes, which throws off the timing of your timing oriented passing game, that is also a player who only runs 2-3 routes really well. I just cannot see him limiting the routes he can run for the Z receiver position to go routes, post routes, and shallow crosses. IMO, the biggest reason we have seen a steady decline in Mike Wallace's numbers over the past three years is because defensive coordinators know what routes he can run well and which routes he is just going to go through the motions with. I've used this comparison before, but Mike Wallace leaving Ben Roethlisberger will be similar to Alvin Harper leaving Troy Aikman. It didn't effect the quarterback much at all, but Harper as a go to guy was a complete flop. This is a similar skill set too. Harper was a vertical guy only who played well in that system opposite Michael Irvin.

    Harper in his final two seasons in Dallas caught a combined 69 passes for 1,598 yards and 13 TDs. He caught 3 TD passes as the main receiving threat in 2 seasons in Tampa.
     
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  21. TooGoodForDez

    TooGoodForDez Deion Sanders for GM

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    Hartline would not be in my long term plans, meaning I would not want him to be my boundary Wr for the next 5-8 years ala Fitz, Green etc. But short term, 1-3 years, he is adequate, especially if a deal can be done for 3 years with 2 years guaranteed. But that depends on negotiations with Hartline. I don't know if he would be willing to do that.

    Hartline plays the right side. Patterson the left. So, I would not be replacing Hartline with Patterson. But, if I had Dez, AJ Green, to play the right side, and Hartline on the roster, I would replace him with Patterson on the roster.Or I would be looking into Hopkins, maybe Hunter, Allen too, to replace Hartline on the roster.

    There is one possible reasons I would replace Hartline this season: he is not producing for the money he demands and there is a better alternative on the market. I do not think there is a better alternative on the market for the right side boundary receiver. But I would draft the above WR to replace him if the deal with him cannot be done for 3 years 2 guaranteed--if he demands too much.

    I would upgrade the left boundary receiver as a must this offseason, with either Wallace in FA or drafting Patterson, or even Hopkins.

    But equally big priority in upgrading WR position should be replacing Bess cause that is available in FA and draft until 3rd round.


    Here is my list of X receivers who are potential replacement for Hartline:

    FA: Jennings
    Draft: Keenan Allen, Deandre Hopkins, Patton, Williams, Justin Hunter, Goodwin, Tavarres King, Harper, Rodney Smith.
     
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  22. Your explination contradicts your other post somewhat but its cool I understand what your saying better. Basicaly you want to add 2 more recievers, keep hartline as a number 3 guy and cut bess. At least that is how I am reading it.
     
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  23. Lt Dan

    Lt Dan Season Ticket Holder

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    Jesus...this crap again....It's getting freakin' old....fast!
     

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