W/Wr's that is everything b/c they simply HAVE to learn how to do everything at full speed, and that takes a huge amount of work to master. INOW, never take a Wr when their are work ethic questions, there can be "speed" questions, but not 40 times, 3 cone drill times.
a few of those guys made the adjustment just fine. I can sit her and list tons of CBs and DEs who didn't make a quick transition. Pass rushers rookie year (1st and early 2nd rounders plus a few notables going back to 2005) Melvin Ingram- 1 sack Shea McClellin- 2.5 sacks Courtney Upshaw- 1.5 sacks Cameron Jordan- 1 sack JPP- 4.5 sacks Robert Quinn- 5 sacks Brandon Graham- 3 sacks Greg Hardy- 3 sacks Derrick Morgan- 4 sacks (first 2 years combined) Larry English- 2 sacks Michael Johnson- 3 sacks Robert Ayers- 0 sacks Paul Kruger- 0 sacks Aaron Maybin- 0 sacks Chris Long- 4 sacks Derrick Harvey- 3.5 sacks Quentin Groves- 2.5 sacks Calais Campbell- 0 sacks Lawrence Jackson- 2 sacks Vernon Gholston- 0 sacks Lamar Woodley- 4 sacks Anthony Spencer- 3 sacks Jarvis Moss- 1 sack Gaines Adams- 6 sacks Jamaal Anderson- 0 sacks Charles Johnson- 0 sacks Mario Williams- 4.5 sacks Mathias Kiwanuka- 4 sacks David Pollack- 4.5 sacks Justin Tuck- 1 sack Trent Cole- 5 sacks Erasmus James- 4 sacks CB Cortland Finnegan- 0 INT/ 7 PD Antonio Cromartie- 0 / 4 Jimmy Williams- 0 / 1 Tim Jennings- 0 / 0 Corey Webster- 0 / 5 Marlin Jackson- 1 / 3 Carlos Rogers- 2 / 2 Antrel Rolle- 1 / 2 Stanford Routt- 0 / 2 Tramon Williams- 0 / 0 Kelly Jennings- 0 / 5 Leodis McKelvin 2 / 6 Mike Jenkins 1 / 5 Tracy Porter 1 / 6 Malcolm Jenkins- 1 / 5 Lardarius Webb- 0 / 6 Jason McCourty- 0 / 0 Patrick Robinson- 0 / 2 Kyle Wilson- 0 / 5 Aaron Williams- 1 / 6 Jimmy Smith- 2 / 10 Ras-I Dowling- 0 / 0 Chris Cook- 0 / 2 Morris Claiborne- 1 / 9 let's add in Nnamdi Asomugha too- 0 int / 0 PD
Thanks for saving me the trouble by listing those names. Which positions do you think generally transition the easiest to the NFL from college? Other than RB, I'd say DT, and OG/C. I don't understand where Padre came up with the notion that DT is a particularly difficult transition compared to other positions. I sure do not agree that CB is an easier transition than DT is.
I only looked at first and second rd picks, and unlike DT's, a CB can have pass break ups etc But do go on.
B/c it's a fact? For example look at Soliai and Starks, and tell me how long it took them to learn how to play DT in the NFL?
Boomer how do you feel about Markus Wheaton? I like what i've seen and heard about him? Any chance we get him in the second?
I don't understand the worries about Sheldon Richardson, just get him on the team and worry about sh&$ later..I'd play him everywhere in any scheme, relentless motor, size with great agility, joy to watch..
Starks had 28 combined tackles (not a huge number but not bad), 4.5 sacks, 2 PD and a FF his rookie season. Since his rookie year he has avg'd 35 tackles, 2 PD, 0 FF and 3.5 sacks. So other then tackles his numbers are down from his rookie season. As for Soliai, he had the talent from the get go problem was he was fat and lazy. It took Soliai a couple season to figure out that he wanted to play football once he figured it out he became a different player.
Tyson Alualu has started and played in every game since he was drafted. He was named to the All Rookie team by PFWA, PFW, and Sporting News. Phil Taylor started 16 as a rookie and made the All Rookie team as per PFWA. Corey Liuget was the 8th ranked 3-4 DE in 2012 as per PFF. Mike Neal had 5 sacks last season in a reserve role. Peria Jerry missed his rookie season with an injury but has been a solid part of the Falcons 4 DT rotation since then. Sedrick Ellis was the 16th ranked DT in the league as a rookie. Sen'Derrick Marks is a starter for the Titans. Even when you cherry pick names to try to make your lame point, you came up with less than half, and every position has some busts even in the early rounds. I could probably name even more DT draft picks in the past few seasons that were successful, other than the ones I named before, but I don't see any sense in doing so. I don't care what you believe. As far as I'm concerned, other than RB, and perhaps OG/C, no position transitions easier from college to pro than does DT. Oh, except punter and kicker, almost forgot those.
Even if Starks is gone, move Odrick inside and call it a day (that is where he belongs anyways). IF Odrick gets traded as rumored then I would consider taking a DT/NT in the first three rounds… but not otherwise
if Starks is gone and you move Odrick inside than who you got opposite of Wake? I mean, I think I'm the biggest Dion Jordan fan here, but if he and Sheldon are there at 12 I'm gonna have a real hard time not taking Sheldon.
pretty much agree with you… I would throw QB in there as well. I mean look at this year a lone you have three great rookie QB's and one pretty good one
free agent signee (Michael Johnson, Freeny <sp>, Kruger). Someone will be available at a decent price.
Ok I see what your doing, so what position and who are you targeting at 12?.. In this draft my philosophy is if we stay at 12, then the defenders on the board are gonna be better than any of the offensive skill players available, so if indeed that is the case your gonna take position need over BPA?
Of late the young QBs have transitioned pretty well, but looking at the past 15-20 yrs or so, I think that maybe an anomaly. This could also have been just a much more gifted group than usual too.
So do tell, which one of those listed DT's have had a "defense built around them"? How about..uhm..none of them? Not one, waste of draft picks really, when Roy Miller can out play them at half the cost in terms of draft resources perspective says, don't waste a high #1 or #2 on them. And quite frankly, really don't care what you think about it either Mr C.
I wonder how Kruger would do as a 4-3 DE fulltime? I'd like to get him if we could afford him. Not so sure this is his best position though. He seems best suited for 3-4 OLB who moves to DE in the nickel.
I'd probably say Oline like you mentioned, which I guess is why it has the highest 1st & 2nd round success rate, no? After that I'd maybe put linebacker, and then the others would kind've be jumbled together (excluding QB). I think receivers with playmaking ability who aren't neophytes as route runners have a better than normal chance to make an early impact.
BPA at a position of need… lol Personally I wouldnt have a problem with Patterson at 12, I like him that much. However, I think if Milliner falls you have to take him. Banks is another guy that I take at 12 if I cant trade down some. If I can trade down a bit I take Elam or Patterson for sure. As a matter of fact, I would take Elam at 12 as well. The guy is just a football player and a guy that creates turnovers...
LOL. Starks had 4.5 sacks as a rookie. How long did it take Soliai to actually "want it"? <and Paul was a 4th rounder BTW>
BTW, my point is that I think it is time for the Fins to start looking at guys that create turnovers and score TD.
My opinion is whichever positions require the least adjustment mentally, are going to generally be the easiest to transition from college to the pros. Generally, I'd say the toughest transitions are going to be QB and WR/TE, though we can think of exceptions either way at every position. Like mroz said, lately the QBs have been adjusting quite well.
We obviously won't be "strongest at it" if Starks & McDaniel leave in FA and we happen to have no plans to re-sign Soliai. It quickly goes from strength to weakness. Besides, we have no interior presence quite like Richardson.
Freeney doesn't fit our scheme. You need more of a hybrid type end/tackle who can play a 3-4 role, which is why Odrick is there and why the staff said they're fine with him remaining there. If they plan on keeping the same scheme then it's not as easy as "move Odrick inside and call it a day".
I don't see why we would take a tackle at all unless you want Martin to stay at RT. Shift Martin to LT....pick up one of a half dozen solid RT's in FA.
Not me, I'm about finding complete football players, Sheldon Richardson is a complete football player.
Looking at how RG3, Luck, Wilson and to a lesser extend, Tannehill did, I think you were right though.
