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Dolphins agree to referendum for stadium tax dollars

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Joe Robbie, Feb 9, 2013.

  1. Ozzy

    Ozzy Premium Member Luxury Box


    Dude you're just making **** up to go against anything I say. So keep making **** up.
     
  2. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    I am not making anything up. Seattle Stadium was always really loud, even before the Seahawks were winning. The stadium has sold out since it has been constructed.

    Seahawk fans have pride in having one of the loudest stadiums and the new stadium was enough of a draw to bring in the crowd despite how mediocre the Seahawks were. When the Seahawks were having seasons of 7-9, the stadium was packed with the 12th man still having pride in being the stadium that had the most opposing team false starts.

    Before you say things, you should find out if they are actually true.
     
    djphinfan likes this.
  3. Ozzy

    Ozzy Premium Member Luxury Box

    The vote also gauranteed 850,000.00 of the stadiums dollars per year to be paid into a fund that is public/private so it can be put back into the surrounding neighborhoods and other projects. As well as the upkeep of any venues that surround the stadium. Kind of like paying rent...
     
  4. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    Would take them 350 years to put back the $300M they were given.
     
  5. Ozzy

    Ozzy Premium Member Luxury Box

    No, before you try to refute what I said you should say to yourself, was it loud or was it really loud because it gets plenty loud at Dolphins stadium as well. When their team (Seattle) was terrible it was no where near the same as it was this past season. There was hardly anything to scream about. It's pretty simple. During games when teams are winning or doing well the crowds will be more into it.

    Unless you tell me you spent 8 games a season inside that stadium ?
     
  6. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    I do know people who do spend 8 games a season inside that stadium.

    I have been to games when the Seahawks were pretty terrible.

    That stadium is freaking loud. Maybe it is not 'as loud' as when they are winning, but it was still one of the loudest stadiums in the league when the team wasn't very good.

    IT wasn't earthquake loud like when the Seahawks beat the Saints, however Seahawk Stadium has always been really, really, really loud. Now that they are winning, Seahawk Stadium is really, really, really, really, really loud.

    In the same way at baseball games when they have X's for each strikeouts, the Seahawk fans have X's for every false start by the opposing teams offense.
     
  7. Ozzy

    Ozzy Premium Member Luxury Box

    Yes but it is still paying them something. That was a smart install to the referendum. There is also other payments that that fund gets from the parking garage. BUT there is one huge thing we have to take into account. Miami Dade County is full of fans who root for other teams. Some of those hate the Dolphins. This is a unique situation that will take forever to pass, if it ever does. But Ross apparently knows this because he said he is willing to do this on his own if he has to. My bet is that if he does, he will only do a roof, which is about the cost of what he was willing to put into to the bigger project.
     
  8. Ozzy

    Ozzy Premium Member Luxury Box

    The part where you said really reallly really loud is where the 12th man makes a much bigger difference. Yet, it is still not at the same decibal level as it was in the Orange Bowl. That will never happen here again! It simply cannot unless the stadium is totally gutted and redone, or torn down and done right.

    I've watched enough Seattle games to say it was not a difference maker when they were not a very good team. It's not like I said you could hear crickets so ........
     
  9. schmolioot

    schmolioot Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Would they have moved otherwise?

    Again, there are not that many cities out there which can support an NFL team. LA is the white whale. You don't hear rumors of any team moving anywhere else because the best markets are occupied.
     
  10. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    I don't know how loud the old Orange Bowl was. Did the Dolphins fans in the Orange Bowl cause a measurable earthquake? I do not know.

    I do agree that it doesn't make a HUGE difference. It does cause some false starts and a few offensive errors. However, most of the time better playing team will win.

    This is what you did say. That is closer to "hearing crickets" than the reality of "really, really loud"

    I am willing to admit that Seahawk Stadium is an exception, it was sold out due to the fact of new stadium and Seahawk fans have had years of medocrity to the point where they are willing to take pride in the fact that they are loud even when the team is lousy.
     
  11. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    There was a rumor they might have. The previous owner tried to move them in the dead of night.
     
  12. schmolioot

    schmolioot Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    There are lots of rumours. Other than LA (which is not a viable option for any team right now, no matter how much the owners claim it is), where exactly were they going to go?

    What city either has a stadium, or the will to build one right now? Even LA doesn;t really have the will. Neither AEG or Roski are looking for much, if any, public funding because it's simply not going to happen.
     
  13. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    There weren't rumors, they had the moving vans ready to go.
     
  14. Ozzy

    Ozzy Premium Member Luxury Box

    The Orange bowl is where the NFL started using the decibal meter because it was deafening to your ears. You would actually leave with your ears ringing for hours afterwards. The acoustics were mistakenly perfect but it was the aluminum seats that made the difference. Bring something to bang on them and it caused echoes back and forth. All this with an open end to the stadium. They would do home games on TV and pan the camara over to the meter and it was well over 100.

    Seatte is loud but I don't think its the same.
     
  15. schmolioot

    schmolioot Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    To where? And this wasn't Paul allen, but the previous owner, right?
     
  16. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    The highest recorded at Seahawk Stadium is 112Db. When I do go to Seahawk games, my ears do leave ringing. It is a fun fan experience. Which is exact opposite of Safeco field. That place feels like a picnic.

    The loudest game I went to was in the Kingdom for the Dolphin/Seahawk playoff game. I had to scream for my friend to be able to hear me. That was a fun experience.
     
  17. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    Paul Allen never actually said they were moving. I also think Paul Allen is thought of really well in this area. Kind of like a lower God. With Bill Gates being the Zues.
     
  18. oakelmpine

    oakelmpine New Member

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    I thought Magic Johnson's consortium that bought the Dodgers had gotten the go-ahead to build the stadium ?!?!?!?
     
  19. FinNasty

    FinNasty Alabama don’t want this... Staff Member Club Member

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    It's possible. Seattle lost their basketball team b/c they wouldn't build a new arena...
     
  20. VanDolPhan

    VanDolPhan Club member Club Member

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    To those saying teams wouldn't move. You completely glossed over the post I did earlier showing how the Falcons are demanding nearly a billion for a new stadium or they are moving out to the suburbs.

    And L.A. isn't the only place folks.

    Toronto is just waiting on Ralph Wilson to kick the bucket and for the NFL to put a team back in L.A. L.A. is the priority and once that happens...you'll hear a lot about Toronto.

    A city + Ontario/Canadian government would give a sweetheart stadium deal to get a team up here. It probably wouldn't end up in downtown Toronto...probably a suburb or along the 403 highway. That way they can get in a large enough spot to open up tailgating.

    There are plenty of rich guys up here who could float it. Toronto is the 4th biggest market in North America.

    So yes...lets not pretend L.A is the only market.
     
  21. jw3102

    jw3102 season ticket holder

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    The fan is totally engaged when the product on the field is worth showing up for. The fans from Alabama and Notre Dame were engaged in the game when the national championship was played at Sun Life Stadium last month. The problem is NOT the stadium. It is the product the Dolphins have been putting on the field for the last four years.

    Just because they say the stadium is the problem, doesn't make it true.
     
  22. VanDolPhan

    VanDolPhan Club member Club Member

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    Umm when this team was pretty good...it was still an issue. I remember folks *****ing about Sun Life back back when we were playoff caliber. The Dolphins losing hasn't made this a new issue. It's been an issue since it was built.
     
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  23. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    lol..the college fan in a national championship game from two of the biggest programs in the world would be engaged if they were playing in Antarctica..

    Another who disregards what is being said to them in black and white..

    With statements like this it really tells me a lot.
     
  24. Ozzy

    Ozzy Premium Member Luxury Box

    The noise at the stadium has never been an issue when the team is contending. The issue is that the stadium seats too many for this fanbase.
     
  25. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I've been to many games where were in first place, against a good team..40 percent full at kickoff, 30 percent full at the beginning of the third quarter, 10 percent standing on defense when we need a critical stop, ( probabaly Oz and his group), and the rest looking at that 10 percent like they were fu&$in aliens..it's a spectator stadium, 0 connection between player and fan, players might as well be playing for themselves, because that's what it feels like when the stands are so far away..huge disadvantage both programs are dealing with..

    I wish someone would ask the great Dan Marino what he thinks about sun life compared to the orange bowl, maybe he will open some people's eyes, ask him if he was more excited to play, ask if he saw a difference in his players energy level, ask him if it affected the other team, ask him if it didn't help them from coming out flat, ask him if they players loved it, ask him if it helped them win games..He'll tell ya strait up y'all are whacked.
     
  26. Ozzy

    Ozzy Premium Member Luxury Box

    I'm going to go ahead and say you put me in their with a blind slap in the back of the head. It is you that don't see what people are saying. You're the one who acts like everyone else is blind to something that you've been going absolutely nuts over for a few months now. We get it. We don't think its the do all tell all. We want to see the team win first and foremost.

    You want them to build a stadium so we can get intimate with the team. If that scenario ever reaches here I for sure won't go. I want to cheer for my team when they do something good but what I really want is to make it a hostile environment for the opponent. Nothing intimate about that......
     
  27. Ozzy

    Ozzy Premium Member Luxury Box

    That's your main problem DJ! You keep wanting to compare the two venues. It will never be like that unless the stadium is totally gutted out or rebuilt completely.

    As for the 1st and 3rd quarters. They place TV's all over the place so going to get a beer or burger you dont miss a thing. So therefor Miamians take their time. The bathrooms also take over 30 minutes to get to. Lots of reasons but the one thing they improved on recently is waiting for beer and burgers. Its ten time better.
     
  28. jw3102

    jw3102 season ticket holder

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    You are the one who seems to have a problem with the stadium, not me. I was happy going to games in the dilapidated Orange Bowl, as well as attending games at Sun Life Stadium. The only problem I have with the Dolphins at this time is their play on the field. It certainly isn't with the stadium they play their home games in.

    A person is only in the stadium for a few hours, eight times a year. So what if it is hot and it rains sometime? This is South Florida and that is the weather in September and October. You can tell me in black and white all you want to about needed renovations to the stadium. I just don't buy it.

    You probably never attended a game at the old Orange Bowl. The seats were uncomfortable, the bathrooms were atrocious, and the food was terrible. Yet the Dolphins and the Hurricanes were winning teams and I loved every game I attended in that stadium.

    I have stated that I really don't care if they tax tourist to pay for the renovations. I do think that the hotels in Broward and West Palm counties should have to increase their taxes also, since they benefits from the stadium as much as Miami-Dade county hotels do.

    So if the tourists have to pay more to stay in South Florida, so be it. I just don't think there is anything wrong with the stadium the way it is right now. This isn't about me being opposed to renovations as much as it is that I just don't buy the argument by the Dolphins and the NFL that these renovations are needed to improve the atmosphere at the stadium.

    My point in bringing up the national championship game is to show that winning teams can create a great atmosphere in the stadium. If the stadium was as bad as you state it is, in creating excitement and a great football atmosphere, it makes no sense that two college teams could create this atmosphere but the Dolphins can't.

    It is all about the product on the field. Once the product improves and becomes a consistent winner again, you will be amazed at the improved atmosphere in the stadium. In fact the Dolphins and the tax payers could spend a billion dollars on renovations or a new stadium and if the team continues to play below 500 each season, fans will continue to stay home on game day and television viewership for Dolphin games will continue to decline in South Florida.
     
  29. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Omgoodness, I'm going to lose my freakn mind..you really want a hostile environment, but you don't think that comes from proximity or intimacy between the stands and the field?, if you say no o,ease just don't respond, we've arrived where we always do..

    When I say intimacy it means proximity, they are hand in hand..

    Me and Mike dee and Paul Allen are on the same page..if you want to lead the blind suit yourself.
     
  30. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    half wrong, half right.
     
  31. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I'm not the only one who has a problem with the stadium, obviously..I've been to many games at both stadiums thank you very much..

    Because the stadium was full for a national championship game has 0 to do with the issues being discussed, and once again shows me where your at in this discussion..

    Why the hell to you think the proposal for the referendum has all kinds of language that state my case.

    If y'all can't wrap your head around the theory of what consists of a real home field advantage I would suggest you start paying more attention to the subject.
     
  32. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    It's not my problem Oz, I completely agree 100 percent that sun life will never be the equal to the orange bowl, because i understand thoroughly what would need to happen from an architectural standpoint, what I'm telling you is that we are so far behind venues that provide an advantage, that I will take anything to close the gap..
     
  33. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    There's a four hundred million dollar referendum on the table that explicitly tells you the issues at hand..

    The roof needs to happen not just because of the rain, but because in the summer time that side of the field where the sun beats down on the fans, has much less people in the stands than the other side..which directly affects the energy inside the building, which then affects the energy for which players play with, is that to difficult to comprehend.
     
  34. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Kirk hurbstreit...in a full sun life stadium...

    " this place doesn't feel right for this game, I don't know what it is, but it feels antiseptic, this is not good for college football, nor is it good for the university of Miami"
     
  35. jw3102

    jw3102 season ticket holder

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    As you state, it is merely a THEORY of what creates a real home field advantage. You obviously believe this theory and I don't. I sat in Sun Life stadium during the Marino years, when the Dolphins had an exciting and winning football team. The Dolphins had a definite real home teams advantage in those years because they were a good team. Fans showed up for the games and they certainly weren't complaining about the need for a different atmosphere in the stadium.

    I realize that you and I are not going to agree on this issue. You obviously think that renovations to the stadium will somehow create more excitement and a better atmosphere at the games. I happen to think that a consistent winner will do the exact same thing and that won't cost taxpayers a penny.

    As far as why I think the referendum has all kinds of language in it. That is very simple. The more complex the language is, the less the average voter will really know what they are voting for or against. I have stated I will vote for the referendum, because I could care less if the tourist pay for the renovations. I also realize that a lot of the fans like you think these renovations are necessary. I have no problem with you getting what you consider an upgrade to the stadium. I personally just don't agree that these renovations are needed.

    We just have to agree to disagree on this issue and if the renovations do happen, I will be happy to congratulate you after all your years of espousing support for these upgrades.
     
  36. VanDolPhan

    VanDolPhan Club member Club Member

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    The big key is that for a mere $200 million Miami is protected against cost overruns (Ross will cover)...lock the Dolphins here till 2031 regardless of ownership changes etc and put off the need for a new stadium until then. That means getting 54 years out of the stadium which in this day and age is awesome.
     
  37. Ozzy

    Ozzy Premium Member Luxury Box

    No, 100 percent right.
     
  38. Ozzy

    Ozzy Premium Member Luxury Box

    Sorry buddy but you don't get off that easy. Being in an intimate environment is something you should never associate with an NFL football atmosphere. It sounds like it's for wimps...
     
  39. Ozzy

    Ozzy Premium Member Luxury Box

    Right because it's not on campus as it should be. So students can easily get there just like it is with their B-ball team.
     
  40. mommabilly

    mommabilly No riders allowed

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    They are almost sold out for 2013 season already. Throw a roof on and AC the place and people will spend the money. There were no worse fans in the NFL then Cardinal fans. Like I said, the place is packed every year and its mainly due to the Air Conditioning inside. Cardinals moved to AZ in in 1988. From 1988 to 2003 the team lacked support and only had one winning season. They moved out of Sun Devil Stadium in 2004, like the Orange bowl it was putrid hot with metal benches, still is. From 2004 to 2012 they have had 2 winning seasons and 2013 does not look much better. They have been thru more QBs then we change our underwear. Like I said, the place is sold out.

    Also like I said the housing market in AZ and the job market in AZ has been one of the worst in the nation, the place was sold out. Florida was number 6 in foreclosures, Arizona was third in the nation, the place still sold out. The stadium is s out in the middle of nowhere. There is some hotels nearby now but for the most part its all farmland. No way to get there but by care. The place is still sold out. In early Sept. the temperatures hover around 102 to 104 until mid september, Flordia has not seen temps like that in years, in Arizona thats the norm for Sept. The place is still sold out. Please do not try to say Miami this that too many QBs.

    Lets just face facts, Sun Life is hot in Sept. Build a place with A/C Attendance would double. Putting sheets to cover the sun does not remove the intense humidity, A/C does.

    Putting sheets around the top of Sun Life is like putting lipstick on a pig. Love going to games there but the humidity blows and just blocking out the sun is not going to do squat. Waste of time and money.
     

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