Health. Longevity. Pocket passer talent. So far, it's not been proven these guys can hold up. I suspect Cam Newton can and will for a few reasons. One, he slides/gets to the ground more often then not. When he does get it, he's big enough to endure it. Ckap too, really. Russell Wilson is tiny in height and weight. RGIII's knee is trash and he's thin as a rail. And lastly, I don't know where the SO will be in a few years from now. I think the way the NFL has goofed around with defensive rules, it's here to stay. But we'll have to wait and see. Until then, Luck > Wilson/RGIII. Would anyone here not draft Luck if we had the number one pick and had this draft redo?
Two knee surgeries for RGIII plus one or two hits from being Scrambled Eggs (thanks Jason Taylor). Wilson is sick. But I still take Luck. Wilson had a higher TD %, but with that run game I think they limited him a little more in the throws he would make. Lucks' INT % isn't terrible at 2.9% (Wilson 2.5%). Wilson also has a sick completion percentage. I love Wilson, and took him late in a dynasty league I'm in. But if I'm GM, I'm not picking him over Luck still. 4 years of college doesn't evaporate in one NFL season. And Luck wasn't THAT bad. If Luck had a Leaf/Jamarcus type season, then yeah ...
I think I would take Russell Wilson over Andrew Luck. Never thought I would think that, but I really think he might be the better player.
That's the funny thing though about Don Banks' re-drafts. He's trying to use an unfair advantage, a year's worth of hindsight...and yet somehow he comes out looking worse than the real draft which takes advantage of no hindsight whatsoever. Takes skill.
...as I assume you don't mean that as a slight to Luck, but instead a compliment to Wilson? You're quite high on Wilson, much more than I. And I really like Wilson...
I've followed Wilson's career for 3 yrs at NCSU, he played AA minor league ball in my hometown for a season, and watched him at WI..was a huge fan of his before the draft and said something along the lines of "..he just makes it happen, his height was never an issue.." That said, not a chance I'd take Wilson over Luck, believe me when I say defenses will figure out how to stop the zone read and Wilson kept the ball the most of the Qb's who ran it in 2012. Luck on the other hand, had his success the old fashioned way, his adjustment curve is much much smaller than Wilson's. A name to keep in mind is Rick Mirer, Wilson is a far better passer, but that early success does not always carry forward
My final draft was to take Luke Kuechly at 8 then Wilson in the 2nd, was willing to move up to the late first to get Wilson..Also stated if I had to, would of taken him at 8, as some other here as well said.. After watching so much of Martin protect Andrew Luck, I stated that he shouldn't be a first round pick, and wasn't my preferred selection in the 2nd.. Revisiting it all now, I agree with how they have listed them at this point, Luck all day, every day.. I'm more proud of Tannehill now than I was earlier, this kid has barely played the Qb position as it relates to a real proset, pro anything style offense, he was a wing T operator junior and senior year in high school, then playing wide receiver at the big time college football level for two year, before showcasing transition skills that I believe are quite unprecedented.. I really can't wrap my arms around that kind of transition, he's a raw as it gets, and he handled himself well.
Yeah i remember a conversation back then, we agreed that if push came to shove, you take Russell at 8 and say fu&$ you to everybody...the theory was if the kid had 3 more inches on him he would be competing for the #1 pick.
Martin also played "Tall" a bit to often, he floated up and just got dishragged by quality De's when that happened. Not saying he is a future all pro either, think he has more a G's skill set, however some of the stuff that is said about him just causes a head shake and when PFF rated him worse than Colombo I called and will call "bull****". Colombo was pretty much helpless. I can recall 2-3 whiffs by Jake that got THill killed, THAT is what knocks Qb's out for weeks and weeks When Merriman beat him for a sack, to me that was sort of the end of my prior high opinion of Long as a dominant player.
That's the first time I've heard you mentioned guard as it related to Martins skillset, I agree Pod..sign Jake move Martin to guard sounds real good to me.
He's sort of lithe Deej, maybe to long of arms to play Guard, and imo, cut Jake loose. Move JJ to his natural RT, find a RG which is supposedly the easiest OL position to play. Or in a pinch, retain Garner and stick him at RG and JJ at RT with JMart moving to LT
Yes, very high on Wilson. But also, there are no sacred cows. I've been super high on Andrew Luck for a super long time (October/November of 2009 I think) but performance is what it is. He performed well but he didn't take that next step. Russell Wilson already did, IMO.
my bad if I misremembered, but I do distinctly remember you saying you would take him in the first, maybe it wasn't 8.. For me, I had Wilson above Tannehill so I was trying to figure what to do, that's why I went with the Kuechly/ Wilson combo over Tannehill/ some other player combo.
It's possible. I was very high on Russell Wilson and insisted that he and Robert Griffin are very close as prospects. Where I probably had it wrong was rating Tannehill and Weeden ahead of them.
To be fair though, Weeden did look like a really solid NFL Qb prospect, I still think he is tbh. If one looks at the weapons they have on offense, imo you can see some of the differences between performances BUT, over time, talent adjusts, one yr, means very little, 3-4 yrs..that tells the tale For example Chad Henne in JVille is pretty much the Henne from Miami, but it take that long for it to become clear.
Quote from Merrill Hoge..."After watching Henne last year take over for Gabbert, he was EXCELLENT last year"
Iliked Weeden as well, still think he will be good, however, I think one of his issues was that all those years in college he really didn't prepare his body for football, and sometimes thats very hard to project from college, he looked very slight to me in a pro uniform, and a bit soft..probably stemming from his baseball experiences where a lot of pitchers don't do sh&$ when it comes to their bodies.
Happened to catch that as well Hoge=Idiot Henne was Henne, looks good for stretches, then losses his pelotos in the red zone, then throws dumbass picks He's still fairly young with a bunch of starts under his belt, suspect 1 more shot then "career backup" is the job he will apply for if he fails
Weeden did about as well as Ryan Tannehill did. They both struggled at times, looked great at other times, etc. I think if they give Weeden a chance to continue, he'll flourish in Rob Chudzinsky and Norv Turner's offense. That's a great fit, IMO. I kept watching what the Browns were doing with him and just thinking god damn talk about taking a prospect and trying tn mold him into what you want hell or high water, they didn't do him any favors as far as trying to make the transition easier or play to his demonstrated strengths. He was a shotgun and pistol quarterback, the entire league has gone shotgun and now pistol, yet the Browns have Weeden working under center constantly. WTF. No wonder the coaching staff were fired.
Thing is, they did what was appropriate imo, the pistol stuff is a flash in the pan, thought the shotgun suited him due to his high volume of pass attempts in college. Straight up under center is just to old school tbh, the idea of "Qb has to take his eyes off the field to catch the ball" Is bull****, generals fighting the last war thinking, nothing wrong per se with going under center, BUT the shotgun is just a reality for a majority of snaps today.
I don't know if that is fair to call it a flash in the pan. It is kind of a fad, however I do think it will continue to be used. Kind of like the screen play and reverses. Some teams will use them a decent amount, some teams will shy away. This is like people declaring the wildcat is dead when it is still in use in the NFL and is decently successful.
DDpree, believe me when I say that, I've watched it run on the CFL's huge field and Defenses figure it out. Basically it is this: Penetration destroys it, the next old school thing to fall down is the "massive run stopping DT must be there" Ahm, no, you do need guys who can stand up interior OL's, you don't need Dave Butz any more
The wildcat was just the precursor of things to come, all the wildcat needed was a player who could throw the football, and a creative coach to design plays, unfortunately we had neither, nor the creativity to identify someone who had..(Colin Kaepernick)
You could just tell he was going to be an impact player.....but I am happy we have THill, I really do feel he's gonna be a great player for us, and lead us to great things.
What do you mean by "next step"? I thought Luck performed very well. Regardless of the good win/loss record Luck had (thats a dumb way to evaluate a QB IMO)... I thought he did a great job carrying that offense when defenses new he was going to throw. He had so much weight of that offense put on him from day 1 and did a very good job IMO. Wilson didnt have near the same responsibilities IMO. But thats cool if we disagree. I'm just curious what you were looking for from Luck regarding taking that next step that you dont feel he did this past season?
Not in terms of their rookie years... but I agree in terms of how I feel their careers will pan out. Both are gunna be great though...
I'd like to see a little jet sweep added to the zone read. Getting another athlete on that edge with with a full head of steam would really open up a lot of options.