Um, that is a zone read. Ryan Tannehill ran it, for 65 yards and a touchdown. The zone read is a play. It's not an offense. It's a play, and it is a play that Ryan Tannehill can effectively run because he is an above average athlete for the quarterback position. The discussion here is not about building an offense around the multitude of option plays that are out there. The talk is about whether Miami can effectively utilize Ryan Tannehill's above average ability to run the ball.
If you wanna run it 1-2x times a game I wont object but games are still won and lost from the pocket and its important not to lose sight of that.
IMO, the zone read is not something you build an entire running game around. It's an aspect of the zone run based offense though. If you are running inside and outside zone, then you can definitely utilize the zone read as a change up and force the defense to defend the numbers of having a quarterback that is a running threat. IMO, a running game based off the zone read is little more than what Rich Rodriguez was doing at West Virginia. IMO, if you really want to study someone that has implemented the zone run concepts in a spread formation, study Urban Meyer's offense. In fact, Urban said he was going to study some of the stuff that Jim Harbaugh has done with San Francisco. He says that it is stuff he has never seen before, and that he's going to find a way to start utilizing it in his offense. That is how his offense was built anyway. He got the passing concepts from Scott Linehan at Louisville and Jim Chaney at Purdue, and he took the zone run concepts from both Rich Rodriguez and Randy Walker/Kevin Wilson. What I really like about Urban Meyer's offense and Dan Mullen's offense is that they do a great job of marrying the inside zone, outside zone, and zone read with the traditional power and counter plays.
I don't remember many times at all that it didn't work, because it typically worked when they ran it. Problem is, they didn't run it much at all.
Fine. But its unfortunate that I have to do this. It's been pretty much well documented and widely accepted by even Tannehill's biggest detractors that he was successful running the ball from the read-option. I'll put it up tomorrow or Tuesday in this thread if I have the chance
Cool...thanks. May want to just link it then and save you the trouble. Hopefully it will include "all" the times RT ran it so we will ge a balanced perspective and not just a highlight film.
Studies have shown memories are faulty. Personally, I would rather see all the times it was run to see empirical evidence.
I've watched a ton Nevada (Ault) and Florida (Urban Meyer) offenses that both incorporate zone read concepts. They have both run it with QBs with far less running ability than RT. So I don't see any reason why RT couldn't run it. In fact, I think it's silly to claim he couldn't.
How would you categorize what the niners do with their run game, it seems about 90 percent is based off some derivative of the zone read ?, including all the little fakes and deeks by the Qb before the handoff is given?.
Really? That is interesting b/c the Pistol run by Kap was designed by Ault with Kaepernick as the QB. Since Kaepernick headed to the NFL in 2011, Cody Farjardo has run it and he is only a sophomore. Fajardo ran it for 694 yards, 5.4 ypc and 11 TDs as a freshman and then 1121 yards 5.9 ypc and 12 TDs as a sophomore. Who are all these "ton" of QBs at Nevada that RT has been better than running read zone/pistol/read-option...whatever you want to call it than?
Am I alone in thinking the "zone read/pistol" thing is just a fad? It's only as good as your quarterback. If your quarterback gets hit over and over and eventually hurt (because they ALL get hurt in the NFL) then the entire offense swirls around the bowl. I want Tannehill's athletic ability utilized but I don't want the entire offense to be a gimmick that gets the guy banged around and injured. Let him become a quarterback. Pocket passers win championships, running quarterbacks get hurt, all of them.
Have you seen tape of Kap, RG3 and Wilson? What most people are wrong, imo, about is they think these guys all are runners who can also throw. These guys can make a living as pocket passers...extremely accurate, smart and with lively arms. Running and elusiveness is an added bonus. That is what separates these guys, along with Newton, from running QBs of the past. When is the last time you saw Kap getting hit hard? I guarantee you Tannehill took a lot more "hits" than Kaepernick has. For people to think that somehow these guys will get figured out in the run game and when that is stopped, if it can, that is the end of these QBs and somehow that makes Tannehill an elite QB is purely fantasy. What Dolphin fan wouldn't want Tannehill to show he has what Newton, Kap, Wilson or RG3 has running or passing? I vote "yes." Bring it Tannehill, I would be his biggest fan.
I wish Tanny would just apologize to you for stealing your wallet or not complementing you on your outfit or whatever offense he did to you that makes you loathe him so much. I mean you sit here and tell us that Tannehill who was the leading WIDE RECEIVER for his team isn't athletic enough to be a read option QB even though a widely regarded talent of RT's is his ability to throw on the run as well. Tannehill is every bit the athlete that CKaep is. That's just hate on your part, cause it ain't logic or observation.
I didn't say a ton of QBs. I also didn't say only the pistol offense. I specifically said a ton of offenses that incorporate zone read concepts. The zone read has been used in offenses throughout college football for years. In fact, RT himself ran some zone read at TAMU. As for Ault, he started using the pistol in 2008 but didn't add the zone read until the 2009. Ault has actually tried several QBs in his pistol w/ the zone read and has talked extensively about what it takes to run it. He has specifically said that great running skill isn't a requirement. It's mostly about being able to make the one read on the end. Basically if the blocks are executed, all the running skill required is the ability to beat one out of position DE. In your haste to criticize you neglected to actually read or at least comprehend what I posted.
It's pretty sound from a fundamental standpoint. Having the player who receives the snap operate as a ball-carrier means you have 10 blockers on a run play instead of 9, and misdirection attempts to leverage that further. I don't think it has to be particularly dangerous to the quarterback, either.
What the 49ers are doing is something completely different. In fact, I'm not sure they are actually running much zone read option at all. They are doing a lot of option stuff though. They have pretty much built in a read option for every run in their offense, and the basis of their running game is more around power, counter, and trap, but they run inside and outside zone as well.
Zone read concepts are not exclusively run out of the pistol. You can line up in the pistol (which is a formation) and not run a zone read at all, I remember reading an article where Ault said he didn't run any zone read out of the pistol until year three of running the formation.
Yup, that's what they do, every run has some sort of option fake first followed by a counter, power or trap...I love that because your still getting that hesitation affect before playing a power game.
This. Read option concepts have been around forever. Wing t, flexbone, I formation(triple option) wishbone are all formations that one could run read option out of.
Eddy Lacy has me salivating. Him and Miller, with Thomas for depth, a decent OL, some WR upgrades, Tannehill, oh my.
Thomas cannot stay healthy and has an even harder time remembering the place he is supposed to be on the football field. Read option, pistol offense blah blah blah. It all seems great until your QB takes a whack and is on IR. SF runs the oldest offense on the planet. 4 people in the backfield a fake and you figure out what we are going to do. Old as dirt but, it has not been seen around the NFL for years. Balt. figured out how to stop it pretty good. A good passing game with a decent QB and decent receivers won that football game yesterday not a pistol offense , read option offense or any other crazy name offense you can think of. Like I always say, it ain't friggin rocket science although some like to make it that way.
Its not rocket science that a raw rooke qb may need more than one year with limited talent round him to truely determine what he is.
Did y'all know that Ryan Tannehill in his junior and senior year in high school operated the wing t offense exclusively.. My goodness this kid is raw..maybe I've been too hard on him.
Yes. Should we run this offense? Yes. Does Sherman, Philbin, and Taylor have any connections, or interest? Sherman has connections but not interest. I can't remember where but I remember hearing/reading that Sherman wasn't really a fan of the read option. Philbin is a fan of the uptempo offense although Sherman didn't do it very much/well. Tannehill is a great athlete but he doesn't use his athleticism as a playmaking QB. The read option would facilitate his athleticism in manner that can be exploited by the offense to make defenses account for it. Sherman/Philbin/Taylor/RT...will we go there? IDK but, I doubt Sherman will do it of his own volition. Or should we build our offense around a drop back QB? The two concepts read-option and classic drop back game are mutually beneficial far more then they're mutually exlclusive.
Well, if we take what we saw last year that would be a big no...with Tannehills skillset, Warmack/Cooper...Eddie Lacy...and just go full in on a power spread offense and base everything off a movement run game and play action passing.
What would be a no? The OP asked several questions. And how did that offense work out for you? I know the read-option worked out quite well for my team.
Ryan Tannehill mentioned at one point that he liked when they used it at Texas A&M but Mike Sherman wanted to keep it limited. Sherman said this year it would continue to be around but they wouldn't use it "too much" or something like that.
Good, imo people, especially NFL talking head types, are getting way to excited about the pistol and zone read concepts, the reality is it is still far better to have a Qb read the field and make a throw. THill no doubt can run the pistol b/c even Tyler Thigpen successfully ran it on a dreadful KC team, however it also means your Qb won't develop as a passer. That and as Dolphins fans, we recall the Wildcat, NFL defenses caught up to it, that is what will happen with those concepts, especially on the more compact field of the NFL as compared to the CFL were it has been run for over a decade.
Here it is. Work got in the way or else I would've had it up sooner. This is every designed running play Tannehill ran all season. (There are even a couple busted plays mixed in). It was quite eye-opening to me that he only had like 10-12 designed runs the entire season. The coaches were overly cautious about limiting his running early on. But I guess it's all part of a larger plan to develop this kid. So in retrospect it's not so bad. Nonetheless, he was quite successful with the read-option plays as you'll see. No bias. Every designed run. Even AdamC will have to admit he was successful against NFL defenses doing it. And maybe not as successful as Kaepernick, RGIII, or Wilson. But outside of those 3, Cam Newton, and maybe Vick, Rodgers, and Luck, I don't think there's another QB a coach would choose to run these types of plays [video=youtube;E5q2B3je2-I]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E5q2B3je2-I[/video]
what I meant by saying no was it looked to me that Sherman didnt want anything to do with the zone read...hopefully there were training him from the pocket first and then will start to implement other elements as we go.
Thankfully, the reality is the read option and pocket passing are not mutually exclusive. Its not a case of one or the other. A QB can execute read option and also be effective rhythm drop back passer too. The Wildcat and the read option are very different concepts. Read option is effective for 1 simple reason: Numbers. It forces the defense to play 11-on-11 instead of the the usual 10-on-11 that occurs against teams where the QB is not a run threat and doesn't not have to be accounted for in the run game. Sherman/Philbin are limiting their offense by not using read option.
Yeah, it has evolved over the years and I can't imagine it won't continue to do so. Originally the pistol was designed b/c it had the advantage of the shotgun being able to spread out the defense, but it allowed for the I formation and downhill running which the shotgun doesn't allow for. Ault took advantage of Kaepernick's incredible talent and added more variation to it every year incorporating the read-option. That is why Kaepernick is so dam good at it. Besides unbelievable talent, he knows the ins and outs of it and he is so disciplined. Kaepernick handed the ball off 21 out of 21 times against Atlanta in the read-option b/c Atlanta went completely opposite of GB's game plan by having the DE come up field to stop Kaepernick every single time. For a QB to have the discipline to hand the ball off 21 out of 21 times (the correct read all 21 times) in his 9th start a week after setting the rushing record for QBs shows incredible maturity.
