Another vote for Keenan Allen, huh? Bleh. We should start a thread that tallies who each mock has picked for us, and see which players are picked how many times over the next few months. It tends to be a good predictor, Id think.
I really think people are undervaluing Allen around here. He is not a sexy pick, but had he played on a better offense he would probably have quite a bit more buzz. There is a lot to like about his game and would most likely contribute right away and fit well into this system.
I agree, best in draft imo, but the thing we need to figure out is, can we get him a bit later?, I believe we can..
IMO, if this is the guy the Dolphins end up targeting, then they need to be aggressive about getting him. Miami, over the last five years, have let players they really like slip through their fingers because they weren't aggressive when it came to making a move to get him. For example, they had Joe Flacco rated about the same as Matt Ryan in 2008 and targeted him with the 32nd pick. If they liked him that much, they should have used those extra picks they had to move up to get him. They could have outbid Baltimore for him. In 2011, Jeff Ireland really liked Collin Kaepernick, but because the team didn't have a 2nd round pick, he did not make an aggressive play to get him. Finally, in 2012, Jeff got his guy because he took him a little higher than many though he should go. This year, if they think Keenan Allen is the best receiver in the draft and is underrated, and they feel their need is that big at the position (increases the value of the pick), then they should just go ahead and take him. Allen has the best feet of any receiver in this draft.
I posted a list like that a few weeks ago in one of these draft threads. I'll see if I can dig it up.
I agree with KB. I'm not sure how far back you can get him. I'd be willing to bet he's a player that will be at different spots on different boards. Some will love how he does just about everything well, but some might knock him down because of a lack of the wow factor like a guy like Patterson has. I think he's a guy that could go as high at the top 10 or even fall to the end of the 1st, but if you really like him you don't take the chance. You just take him. I'm not sure I think he's the best WR in the draft. I think he might be the safest and I wouldn't mind him at all if he were the pick, but you have to be really intrigued with Patterson's upside. I think his ceiling is very high, while Allen's floor is pretty high.
Honestly, I have to watch a little more of him. I do like the fact that he improved as the season went along. What I don't like is the overall lack of production as a receiver. Because of that, I need to watch more of him to see why he wasn't as productive as other top receivers in this draft and what there is to work with. I want to focus more on his overall skill level as opposed to just the athleticism. Compared to Allen, Allen is obviously more productive relative to the rest of the offense he played in. Patterson has better straight line speed, and as good as Patterson is at making people miss, Keenan Allen may actually have better, quicker feet. Allen has him beat right now when it comes to using his body to create separation.
Here's my dilemma KB, who's the better football player, and the player who could be more impactful to our offense and our QB?.. Eifert or Allen..? I'll be more sure about a strategy once the combine is over, once I've studied other teams needs, and we continue to try and find these two guys strengths and weaknesses to see who is the best offensive skill payer in the draft..cause for me, these two are it. I understand what you and 24 are saying, I just can't rule out anything at this point.. Are you saying that because we are so desperate for a wide receiver, and it's possible that K Allen is the best, then it has to be done no matter where you have rated Allen relative to other previous draft prospects and where they went?
I don't want to speak for him, but I think what he was saying (and what I am), is if you like Allen that much, he's going to be in your top 12 on your board. The Dolphins stack their board so positional need factors in. You can't worry about where he may or may not fall to. If you like him that much, you pull the trigger at 12, you don't try and play the guessing game and get cute and try and outsmart everyone to have your cake and eat it too so to speak.
I think he has better separation speed, a smoother stride, and better run after catch ability. I would personally prefer him of the two, but with just 1 season at Div 1-A, I don't think Ireland would be as apt to take him. Allen looks like a more textbook Ireland pick, and he's a fine player too.
One thing I do like about going with a 1st/early 2nd round TE is that he'll hopefully become a guy you'd want as an offensive mainstay for a decade, which isn't always the case for receivers as they get up their in price.
I don't agree with Keenan Allen having better feet or better ability to make people miss. I think Cordarrelle Patterson is considerably better in both regards. Keenan Allen has a tendency to lose his balance when running with the football in his hands.
I think you'll see Allen as the consensus pick on most mocks just b/c he's the #1 WR on most boards and we need a WR. Personally, I don't see him as having enough explosiveness to be really special. I think Allen is a good all-around WR. He may turn into Greg Jennings which isn't bad at all. But I also think Hopkins will end up being just as good of a pro. And I think Bailey has a good chance of being better than both of those guys. I am not thrilled with the idea of getting a WR at 12 when I can get the same thing (or better) in the second round. I tend to to want to look for that special skill with my first pick. I'll even take the chance on finding that at the expense of the safer play.
I just couldnt pull the trigger on any player with a label for being lazy at 12. You need guys that are going to work hard to improve their game. You need guys that have the desire to be the best ever NOT guys that "think" they are. I would much rather take Patterson at 12 then Allen.
I guess I'm the only one who thinks Eifert is the best most diverse skill player in the draft..offensively speaking.. I mean I know we need receivers, but we also need this position to be solidified for the next 10 years, we need the athlete in him that can evolve with today's game..Eifert is the man.
There is no doubt in my mind that I would take Patterson over Allen right now. Allen's work ethic has him off the board in the 1st round if I was doing the picking.
I know you like him BUT god I just dont see it. I think he is very similar to Fasano in that he is going to be a good blocker (given time) and a so so receiver. I got reamed for comparing the two in another thread but the way I see it. The reason Fasano is a better blocker right now is because he has been in the NFL for a while. Eifert has the ability to do what Fasano does. I do think Eifert will be a better receiver then Fasano but not my a substantial margin (I am probably in the minority here but I think Fasano is a good not great receiver, his numbers take a hit because he has to stay in and block a lot). The last thing I will say about Eifert is, how can one project a player that didnt dominate in the college ranks to dominate in the pros? If I was going TE in the first two rounds I would go Ertz and re-sign Fasano. They would make a good pair of TE's.
Most of what I've seen indicates a good work ethic. Here's a quote from his coach Tedford: The man-beast simply does not get tired. Not of practicing. Not of watching film. Not of competing. "If you say, 'Let's go over there,' he'll want to race you there," Tedford says. "He's a guy that you have to slow down because he's always champing at the bit to do more." http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1203724/index.htm
If after interviewing the kid and talking to people around him, if I felt he was lazy and it wasn't correctable I wouldn't have him in my top 2 rounds and may not even have him on my board. I'd assume the Dolphins would do the same. My thoughts were based off of his play. As outsiders we can't really have a good grasp on his work ethic despite what we hear about him. On the field, he is a good player. I thought the Jennings comp made earlier in this thread was a good one, although Allen is 4 inches taller. I think someone like him or maybe Reggie Wayne is what you hope to get with Allen. With Patterson though you hope he can be a Julio Jones or Dez Bryant (minus the crazy).
I haven't necessarily heard anything negative from a work ethic standpoint. But I have heard hints of diva attitude in his behavior. That Tedford quote, the "He's a guy that you have to slow down because he's always champing at the bit to do more"...sounds like a complement and in some ways Tedford meant it as one, but it's a way of alluding to something that has actually been a problem, and spinning it in a way that makes it sound positive. That's not something to read into by itself, but I've heard a fair amount of other things that allude to diva attitude.
It's about this draft and who he matches up with..as well as our needs. Head to head, who's gonna give you a better weapon a better career, Tyler Eifert or Cordarelle Patterson, Tyler Eifert or Keenan Allen, Tyler Eifert or your fav skill player inserted here? I don't have Ertz and Eifert in the same level so I can't go your route. And the Fasano comparison?.. Not sure what to say.
That why this 12 spot is different this year when it comes to selecting a receiver, I don't see a Dez Bryant, Justin Blackmon, mike Crabtree talent.
I like Fasano, and I think he would be the perfect compliment to Eifert...Perfect balance at that position with those two combined skillsets..
Eifert was recruited as a WR and lined up there quite a bit at ND. He's taller, faster, and will be a better receiver the very first day he steps onto an NFL field as Fasano is right now. I don't really see the comparison.
How do you rank Eifert and Ertz? Do you have Eifert substantially better than Ertz like DJ does, or do you have Ertz a little ahead of Eifert such as I do? Or somewhere in between?
I hope we resign Fasano, no matter which TE we may take in the draft. He's one of our most productive and dependable players among the pending free agents and I cannot see the sense of letting him go. He is a better TE than Smith is a corner, or Clemons is a safety or Bush is a RB, or Hartline is a WR, IMO. If not for Fasano, Tannehill would have been lucky to have had a half dozen TD passes.
What I really like about Allen is his subtlety when catching and securing the football, it's effortless, natural, very quick from the moment he catches to securing the ball, he's gifted, more well rounded to me. Patterson's ability to run is appealing, but I'm not sure he's as good as an overall receiver as Allen. Also Terrance Williams is a very smooth looking athlete, that to me is always a good sign.. This is why the combine is my 2nd favorite time of the year, this is where you get to see natural movement skills, it's pure from an athletic standpoint ( especially relative to specific position responsibilities) so you can truly see the athletes ceiling and what kind of space they can occupy.
Eifert is way more of a seam busting threat than Fasano. I like Fasano quite a bit, but I've seen it on TV and more so live at games- there's a certain lumbering aspect to him. He's a good athlete, excellent blocker, good hands and a good route runner, but he'll never be a true seam busting threat because he just doesn't have that extra gear. He's done some fine work in the seam for sure, but he just won't demand the extra attention of a Gronk, Hernandez, Keller, take your pick. What Fasano needs is a running mate at TE to balance him out. I haven't given up on Clay and Egnew, but unless we get that 2nd seam busting TE we'll have the same problem as fielding Hartline and Bess at the same time. Eifert could be that player, but #12 seems kind of high for him, plus there are several other intruguing TEs who could be had later in the draft. Still, Eifert is a heck of a player with his size, wheels and overall athletic talent. ps why didn't we take a look at Dallas Clark last year, was he still not healthy?
I've done a lot of research on Allen off the field as well, I didnt think that at any point.. Allen... #1 receiver prospect in the draft on my board..and for me, there is some some distance between him and the next.. Eifert...#1 tight end on my board.. Either one I'll be happy..
Just wondering, do you have an actual board, like down in the basement or the corner of your living room, or do you just keep a board in your head or on a notepad like me?
