You know the drill. Post vids, opinions. [video=youtube;7x1EGquKKEs]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7x1EGquKKEs[/video] [video=youtube;nM-Zfc5I-P8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nM-Zfc5I-P8[/video] [video=youtube;KsAOTVjyBwE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KsAOTVjyBwE[/video] [video=youtube;ShSiAvIX1Jc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ShSiAvIX1Jc[/video] [video=youtube;fhX_bw1rBJw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fhX_bw1rBJw[/video] My notes: Sheldon Richardson, DT - Mizzou(Games Watched: 2012 - Alabama, South Carolina, Florida, Georgia 2011 - Baylor) - nice quick penetrating step - real curious to see him against a great Alabama O-line. The one that owned Notre Dame. - slides really well along the line. remarkable nimble on his feet, like a linebacker in changing direction. hips turn very well too, not a fused lower back and hip region like so many bigger D-Linemen have. - beat the Tackle-Guard Gap multiple times. - drew a double team, and definitely lacks the size and power to be a problem. Could he be washed out by man-blocking vs a power-run team that comes right at him? What will he look like trying to anchor in goalline and 3rd/4th and short? Is there ballast in his keister? - first impression, shades of Gerald McCoy, Peria Jerry - anchored well at goalline. Sadly, no one else did. - then next play he is pushed back. following play he holds ground again. not bad. Not a tree stump, but with his athletic ability, I'll gladly take it. Now I just want to see some plays out of him. A tackle, a asack, a forced fumble for example. Make a big play, big man... or add forty pounds and soak up blocks to let other people make 'em if you won't. - He is damned near unblockable inside when epnetrating, though occasionally it seems Bama allows it as the play design goes elsewhere. - turned out of the hole... not happy to see that - no pressures yet - as soon as I say it he gets a sack - 4th qtr, down 28-10 to Bama and his motor is HIGHER rather than lower. love that. great players do not let game conditions dictate their level of effort or play. great plays coming off blocks to locate the runningback a few time - heads up play to try to raise hands and block passing attempt - running plays down with hustle from behind - 35-10 down and on own goalline with two minutes left and he's giving extra effort on a goalline stand.. - his team was overmatched against Alabama, but he wasn't - South Carolina - oh boy, these guys can't handle him - coming off blocks to tackle runningbacks, second effort rush to get a QB hurry - walking the RG back. Has a bit of power to him. - Forced fumble - his play radius is amazing from DT... really involves himself - clean beats the interior line and gets QB hit - beats block on goalline but fails to make tackle - blocker moves him on goalline - short zone pass drop, tackles RB - excels at chasing RBs and slot receivers down from behind on 5-10 yard gains - sniffs out screens decently, but not prescient by any means - misses too many tackles when squared up versus an oncoming runner. tackles much better from behind. - Florida: big spacing on O line... he should have a field day.. except the short passes give him little time to get there - occasionally they try to have him take a running start at a blitz like a linebacker, but he is ineffective that way - fires out well for LOWER leverage in short yardage - great tackle for loss on a play where they are trying to have the RT block him on a run to the left... but he gets to the intersection point first, owns the space and shoots past the tackle before he gets to the blocking spot. This guy will give big headaches to teams that like to run those sorts of plays, because backside guys will not be able to block his pursuit quickly enough. He's a backside nightmare (like Deej). - useless from two point stance. so better with hand in dirt. I bet he has a great vertical for his size. like Wake did, but not AS good because he's bigger. - blocks a FG... that should be a real strength of his, actually! I could see hi blocking at least one a year. - RG has to hold him, and it negates a 50 yard TD bomb. Nice. - Georgia: - same stuff - penetrating on almost every snap - vs Georgia he had a series of late hits and piling on that went uncalled, then finally got called for the one on the QB - always near the ball when the tackle happens. last said that about Zach Thomas. lol. - Baylor 2011: - playing at end in some 3-fronts, and DT in 4 front - clean beats the guard and destroys the play inside - QB hit, another QB hit - unblockable by the OLine - not as effective at 3-4 DE. what a waste of his best skills. - cleared out of hole on goalline, then leaps on next play, can't tell if it was effective. I get the feeling his goalline defense improved from 2011 to 2012. - QB hit/hurry from 3-4 DE spot, because he took an INSIDE move. Inside rusher, not an outside guy. - born to shoot the B gap. - consistently, when a running back is passing him, he comes over a second too late to make the tackle as he passes by. - needs to be paired with a soild run defender who can also penertrate. Starks. Not sure Odrick and him would be sufficient... and that's a shame, because Odrick at end is stupid. I wonder if we couldn;t already get this same sort of play by just moving Odrick to DT full time rather than drafting Richardson... although Richardson is far quicker off the snap and better at penetrating. - forced fumble He's a very good penetrating 4-3 DT. Not sure how we shuffle our parts tomake this a smart pick. I also feel like he could go anywhere from 6th overall to 25th overall. If you take him at #12, to make this work, you have to ditch Paul Soliai so you can start Starks and Richardson inside, or Odrick and Richardson. I don;t see the sense in having him only rotate in behind Starks and Soliai and I am firmly against anything that keeps Odrick at end. More and more I see Soliai as a bog roadblock to us building this into the right kind of front four. I hope this staff doesn;t cleave to the run defense aspect of having Solia, because we need to take a step back to take two forwards, imo, and commit to a one gap, penetrating style of player up front. Richardson fits that. But then you may as well let Starks go too, move Odrick in and spend some money on a free agent DE. Dwight Freeney? Also, I wonder if most of us aren't all watching the same few games available on youtube? That would give us serious blindspots in our group discussion and evaluation of players.
I love him, have him as the better player than Cox...but whatta we gonna do if he falls to us, which I don't think he will, keep Odrick outside, let Starks walk and pair him up with Solai?
Keep talking please, because that would make this thing very interesting..really would love the player on our team, but I just thought we were completely loaded and there was no way we could afford the luxury.. Richardson..Odrick..Solai..Wake...with Starks as the first back up at all positions and rotational player... Wow, that's interesting if Starks would be ok for his contract to reflect that.
But Richardson is far more effective hitting inside gaps than running the outside arc. As a 3-4 end maybe, but why put him at 4-3 end? Why not get someone who is more made for it. The good thing would be that he could be stout vs the run on the strong side and this be a three down player.
Because he plays like an end and I think he has the mindset of an end. And I don't know if he holds up on the interior consistently at 290 lbs. Nor am I sure I want to ask him to put more weight on that frame.
He thinks like an end, he plays like an end, he has the frame of an end. I don't think I'd want to put more weight on that frame and risk him getting sloppy, I'd rather have him leaner and focus on his speed and motor which IMO are nice bells and whistles but are relatively wasted at defensive tackle. In the end, the plays that impress you, what he's doing on them, the plays you end up saying "Wow, I can't believe a defensive tackle can do that"...aren't going to make him a great defensive tackle. It's like if your plumber sits down at your piano and starts playing Mozart. "Holy crap, that's impressive" you say. Then you say "But can you fix my sink?"
The play that starts at 0:32 in the Alabama game shows just how athletic this guy is, he is running step for step with lacy. I'm really excited to see him run his 40 I could easily see it in the 4.7 4.8 range which would go along way towards selling him as the oversized de in coyles defense.
Hm. Doesn't look like a 4-3 end to me. Is there anyone in the league who functions the way you could imagine Sheldon functioning at end? I'm trying to see it and having trouble.
I think that depends on his role. If he were used to be a penetrating one gap guy inside, like Gerald McCoy did (at least initially) then I can see a fit at DT. But yeah, it's gotta be very specific to his skillset. He could be an end I guess but I dunno. He has no outside move at all, so about 40 percent of the rushes I saw from him at end went nowhere... But he still had to rush outside to keep his incredible inside rush effective. Best B gap penetrator I've seen in the draft.
Are you asking me if there are a lot of defensive ends in the NFL that play defensive tackle technique at defensive end?
He does look badass when he rushes with his hand off the ground, and he does have a little bit of weight he could lose..285 lb defensive end with power, speed and killer instincts...very interesting.
I think a guy like that you're pleasantly surprised if he can edge rush, but I don't think you can put yourself in a position to depend on it. Seems like an avenue to pursue if Starks walks, though.
I would have him at defensive end in base packages and shift him inside in nickel. Similar to Justin Tuck. When I'm looking at defensive tackles I'm looking for strength. Strength and brutality. It's not the only thing of importance but it is the most important attribute. My honest opinion is that if I'm evaluating Sheldon Richardson purely as a defensive tackle, I'm not necessarily evaluating him that high. But I would evaluate him pretty high as a defensive end on base downs and a defensive tackle on nickel downs. For defensive tackles, gap shooting to me is like sleight of hand. It tends to distract you from the important things.
I wouldn't have a problem with this, especially with a quality SAM hybrid or situational pass rusher to fill in at end [in nickel]. On the other hand, what do you think is the max amount of attention Richardson could draw being flanked by Soliai and Odrick? That could perhaps help mask his slighter size and allow him to be a disruptive force in the backfield including on run downs.
It's not really extra attention that I'm worried about. I just think if you take a blind eye toward some of the stuff that won't happen in the pros as well as some of the stuff that is kind of flashy but not really important, you're not seeing an A+ defensive tackle. Maybe more like a B or B+. Just trying to play to his strengths.
Except how does this improve our nickel Pass rush situation at end? We say stuck with Vernon.. Or we have to expend an additional pick on someone who can rush from end in the nickel. I don't see the sense in it. Especially when we already have Starks and Odrick inside (sure you can let Starks leave but then you are using a draft pick to replace him instead of using it to add to the defense) Rather has Ansah, who is not a real edge rusher either, but who I think can still do more from end in nickel than Vernon will. And I guess I don't picture a lot of 4-3 ends as squarish built DT types, CK. maybe that's my own misperception. I think of the long frame of a Tuck or a Ray Edwards (before he got lazy)... And that is a strong side DE to me. A guy you don't have to move.
Just noticed this: "suspended for a game this season, reportedly for blowing off a team-issued punishment for skipping class. Richardson is also known for running his mouth, including saying before Missouri played Georgia that Georgia plays “old-man football.” (Georgia then beat Missouri 41-20.)" http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.co...ed-sheldon-richardson-declares-for-nfl-draft/
First, I have to say I saw him at what appeared to be 3-4 end with an additional LB rushing, iirc. He did attempt several outside rushes, though. To zero effect. I'll see which game it was and post.
Baylor 2011 was where I saw him trying to rush from the outside against LT. And not many rushes. Maybe four or five, if that.
That is hilarious. The outcome of the game was delivered with such editorial comedic timing that I almost LOL'd when I read it. I just don't think Richardson is our pick. He's going to be a fine defensive lineman though.
It improves our nickel b/c Richardson would upgrade our pass rush from the inside just as Geno Atkins and Henry Melton do. Side note, Melton is reportedly 6'3 295, up from his Combine weight of 269. We'd still have to add a pass rusher regardless I would think. Even if we drafted Ansah we'd ideally want him inside in nickel, leaving the same hole at weakside end in nickel as if we had drafted Richardson. Perhaps draft Carradine, Lemonier, or Buchanan to backup Wake and serve as the nickel weakside rusher. And there's always a possibility Ansah is drafted before us. well, we'd be using a 1st round pick to not just replace Starks but hopefully boost our interior pass rush potential while opening Starks' $6+ million cap space to use elsewhere. That savings has significant value considering it could go toward a top available FA that would otherwise cost us a high draft pick on (WR, TE, CB, FS). I look at it as, "we have $6+ million + a 1st round pick; what's the best way to use it?". If we can't re-sign Starks, Odrick's ability to play DT and DE (in base) provides the flexibility to take either Ansah, Richardson, or Jordan or whichever one is left if the others are already drafted. Or if we were to take Cordarrelle Patterson 1st there'd still be options at 2a (including trading up) and 2b to address DE and DT . For instance: Greg Jennings (bought with Starks' FA money) 1. C Patterson 2. Shariff Floyd to replace Starks 2. Tank Carradine as the 2nd pass rush end .... or if Patterson, Ansah, and Jordan are gone... or if Richardson simply represents the best prospect on the board: Greg Jennings 1. Sheldon Richardson 2. Nuke Hopkins/Q Patton 2. Carradine
Apparently not. Perhaps our definitions differ or I was half-assing my watching by then as it was a half hour into watching cut ups of plays every ten seconds. But that's what I recall. Sounds like you disagree. Now I'm tempted to re-watch. lol.
Hm. Not I. But I loved John Randle. I thought Chris McCoy was like a mini-John Randle... but he lacked a little more qucikness, more explision, more power to actually perform like Randle did... and thus he hasn't accompished much. I like him though, when we got him. Had hopes for him. Oh well.
I'm just looking at plays on that Baylor footage and for instance at 0:10 he gets a proper jump off the snap and is unblocked but has no trouble recognizing the lack of blocker and cutting the corner tight, retraces and makes a play on the ball. That's defensive end work right there. And the very next play in a pass rush from that spot he gets the outside shoulder of the right tackle and puts him on skates all the way back to the QB, punched the tackle almost into tomorrow at the bottom of his rush so that he could get to the quarterback. That's some defensive end work right there. RG3 being RG3, yeah he escaped the pressure, but it still forced him out of the pocket. At 0:48 seconds there he is again at a 5 technique and look at his jump off the snap. It's an option play and he forces the early toss to the back by heading straight to RG3 at 100 mph. Again the very next play lined up at end, he takes an inside technique through the B gap and closes pretty quickly. At about 2:25 he turns an inside move into a bull rush and again skates the tackle all the way back to the quarterback, forcing the throwaway. And the very next play again he shoots the inside shoulder B gap and pressures the QB again. Brandon Graham used to do this a lot. He's been an effective DE in the pros. Here are all the time indexes for his plays at defensive end. http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=fhX_bw1rBJw#t=10s http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=fhX_bw1rBJw#t=18s http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=fhX_bw1rBJw#t=48s http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=fhX_bw1rBJw#t=58s http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=fhX_bw1rBJw#t=102s http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=fhX_bw1rBJw#t=121s http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=fhX_bw1rBJw#t=145s http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=fhX_bw1rBJw#t=161s http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=fhX_bw1rBJw#t=168s http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=fhX_bw1rBJw#t=186s http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=fhX_bw1rBJw#t=205s This isn't about him becoming a different player at defensive end. It's about opportunity. He won't have in the pros the same opportunities to make the plays that I see him making from defensive tackle in college, doing all that gap shooting. And instead he'll be asked to perform in situations where in college he was more or less just "ok" at. But at defensive end, he'd have more opportunities, more space, to let those skills shine better. That's my opinion. As such, it's not surprising to me that 11 plays total, including 5 runs and 6 passes, he: 1. Made a tackle for a very short gain off a retrace back to the ball 2. Had 1 QB Hurry 3. Forced the QB to make his option toss early which should've helped the defense prevent the 3rd down conversion 4. Had 1 QB Hit 5. Blew contain on a run 6. Had an ineffective pass rush 7. Had 1 QB Hit that should've resulted in intentional grounding 8. Had what should've been a QB Hurry but it was only a 1 step drop 9. Had 1 QB Hurry 10. Made a tackle for a very short gain on a QB draw 11. Assisted a tackle for a short gain on the QB keeper off the option There's obviously some sample error here as the stated intent of the video is to isolate a subset of plays where Sheldon Richardson stood out for good or bad. But on the 6 pass plays we're looking at 2 Hits (1 arguably should've been a sack/intentional grounding) and 2 Hurries, with another effective rush that should've been a Hurry if no for it being a 1 step drop. On the 5 run plays we're looking at 3 tackles for short gains, and a good force play on the 3rd down option. If you did this for the other however many plays in the video where he lined up at defensive tackle, do you think you'd see the same results? I don't. I think that's because an end position affords him more opportunity to affect the play's result.
Just ask yourself this question over and over again when you're watching his tape. Take the Florida game for an example. Which player looked stronger? Over and over again. Watch him slam into the interior of the Florida offensive line (which isn't exactly Alabama) and tally all the times he looked like he was actually giving someone there a tough time because of his strength, be it knocking them backward on the initial punch, walking them backward like they're on skates, or knocking them off balance so that he could shed, etc. To me, most of the time, it's like watching a wave crash into a cliff. He's just not making an impact with his strength and if you're a defensive tackle in the NFL then you're going to need to be able to do that. In such tight spaces on the interior, the opportunities to make the play because of your quickness and speed are fewer and far between. That's why I put him at end. And perhaps it's why I ought not rate him as highly as I have, to be honest, since projections to a different position are inherently fraught with risk.
I agree. Richardson sure is interesting, but we have compelling needs at CB, FS, WR, OL and pass rusher. My best guess is that we miss out on the 1st wave of pass rushers and take one in the 2nd rd like Lemonier, Okafor or Buchanon. We already have quality DTs and a jumbo DE in Odrick, there are just too many holes to plug to consider adding to a strength position, jmo. Even with the extra picks in the 2nd and 3rd round, it just doesn't seem to be enough. We spent years building inside out with meat and potatoes premium picks, now it's time to bring on the play makers.
If your problem is that a Sheldon Richardson replacing Jared Odrick at defensive end/tackle doesn't help you at end on pass rush downs...then just do both. But answer me this. If we lose Randy Starks, what the hell are we doing at defensive tackle? Kheeston Randall looked decent for a bottom of the roster guy, but let's be serious here. So then you move Odrick to replace Starks. Then what, at defensive end? Olivier Vernon? I guess I could get with that as long as he comes out on pass downs, but I'm not sure Kevin Coyle can deal with it. Truthfully the evaluation I had on Olivier Vernon when he came out was that he was a run stopping defensive end on base downs that surprisingly might look a lot more interesting as a pass rusher if you shifted him inside on pass downs...and if that ends up happening that wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing. But in that case we definitely would need a sub to come in and rush from right end on pass downs because Vernon sure as hell ain't doing it.
Vernon, in hindsite, doesn't seem to be the greatest fit for this team. If, as you say, we lose Starks, then the domino effect begins and you make a good case as per Richardson. Move Odrick inside, maybe draft Richardson for DE. I just hope that it doesn't happen. Starks and Soilia have a good thing going at DT. Then again, there will be a whole lot of cap money tied up in the DL if and when Starks resigns. Anyway, for better or worse I hope that the focal point of our draft turns out to be play makers (not that Richardson can't be one, of course), more in line with pass rushers and skill position guys. The point was made about the folly of mock drafts before all Juniors declare- there's a lot of truth to that, but at the same time who has a clue as to what we should do in the draft before FA plays out, without knowing what Starks, Jake Long and everyone else are going to do?
Man I would hate to take away disrupting the middle of the field from the guy by putting him at end, he moves so well from that position, and I think his strength will match up with NFL guards and centers, he's a high level interior pass rusher, and demonstrates great talent and explosiveness from that area.. He would certainly test the BPA strategy, cause if he falls to 12 he imo certainly will be that..If Starks leaves, then select the player if he's there (if character pans out), worry about where he's gonna play later..he's that good.
1) Vernon is a SOLB, I think. 2) Why use two picks to get somewhere when you can use one? If we draft a rush-end (with some strength) in a draft full of good ends, then we keep Starks inside or move Odrick there if Starks leave. in your scheme, we need to use a pick to get Richardson, then another pick to get a pure pass rusher to replace Vernon. I don't like using two stones to kill one bird. Okay, off to watch the plays you highlighted.
