West Coat Offense 101 [What Ireland & Philbin will be looking for in the draft & FA]

Goodness that is like a Wiki entry.

 

I suspect people do not realize what a bad situation we are in at Te, we literally are down Clay and Egnew, one with a knee issue and the other with playbook issues.

Clay as well had problems picking up the offense as the WCO is notoriously difficult for some players to learn.

Ditto a certain type of Rb in the ZBS were vision is almost as important as physical skills.

 

The issue with the content is that it's a bit outdated due to the evolution of the West Coast Offense. Looking at it from a simple view, Bill Walsh had a strong dislike for shotgun whilst he employed the 7-step dropback passing game. Conversely, the modern day offense employs a significant amount of shotgun sets and little to none (leaning to none) dropback passing. And that's the simple view. Once you start dissecting the types of receivers and tight ends, which differs if one just looks at Mike McCarthy's group and compares it to Walsh's, it varies quite a bit.

Regarding the running back position, I don't think Reggie Bush is the answer. He doesn't have the instincts to find the cutback lane on a consistent basis. However, Lamar Miller does; the question with Miller is if he can stay in one piece and pick up pass blocking duties. IMO they should have signed Justin Forsett when they had the chance.

 

This was good stuff. 20 years ago. Nobody in the NFL runs a true WC offense these days. The size and speed of the defenses dictated that starting 5 years ago. Bob Davie sucked as a coach and was even worse on his opinions.

 

Well intended but please dont post full articles. Link us to the Bob Davie story instead. Not to be critical, it just puts the sites owners and you at risk for copyright.

 

Agreed on the letting Bush walk stance (roll with Miller) and use the money you were going to sign Bush with for Keller or Cook

 

I did enjoy Walsh's Qb/WCO offense 101 series of youtube videos.

Still not 100% with letting Bush walk, we need playmakers and I'd hate see him go but would understand why.

 

Our offense doesn't seem to resemble any of the purer zone scheme franchises. There seems to be a bit more of mixing and matching of styles, assignments and play calling. JMO.

I do think the principles are important. And I hope that Ireland will find players to fit what Philbin thinks is important.

 

Bush looked lost in this scheme. Truth be told its actually really good for Miller and Thomas both of whom are one cut and go type runners where as Reggie likes to dance at times and in a ZBS theres no margin for that since a lot of it is predicated on timing your runs to coincide with the lineman's blocks. That either happens naturally or it doesnt. Its not something you can really develop past a certain point once you establish your identity as a runner. I wouldnt put chris Johnson in that scheme for example no matter how talented he is but Alfred Morris or Arian Foster are fits for those types of schemes. Vince Young was actually wonderful when he was running because he was patient and followed blocks beautifully.

 

I would prefer to keep him. Many times in the season he made the difference.

 

If youre going to use him like New Orleans did where hes a returner and receiver yes. If youre using him for more then a handful of carries a game no. Hes a home run threat but hes also a hinderance and not your typical 1 cut and go back.

 

Just keep in mind:

Losing our:

-1 Td scorer
-Leading rusher
-Leading Wr

Are all real possibilities and that spells "rebuild".

 

This offense doesn't really have an identity yet, nothing to make other teams take note and be concerned with. We really need a wide receiver and a tight end who can take our young quarterback and tell him you get me the ball and I will catch it and make a play.

 

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That's the same we spelled it last year I think ...

 

Traditional zone run blocking doesn't involve pulling. It's where all the linemen are pretty well moving together in a direction of varying angle to the line of scrimmage- More vertical in inside zone, more horizontal in outside/stretch zones. If someone is pulling, it's generally man blocking. Teams pretty well mix their packages, the Dolphins are primarily a zone team but they have a couple of man plays.

There's an exception in pin and pull blocking, but that's a little bit different and not something any NFL teams base their run game around like normal man or zone blocking, at least as far as I know.

 

Re: pulling stuff. Shouldn't be forgotten that ZBS teams still run base NFL concepts and two of them are Counter and Power -- both involving pulling guards.

They don't from what I know but Manning and the Broncos (as well as when he was with IND) have used it.

 

Combination blocks.

 

All teams run power at least part of the time and that will involve pulling obviously.

But at Texas A&M, Sherman only ran power on about 1 out of 5 run plays, based on what I saw.

 

I know many have mentioned -- not in this thread, but generally -- that Bush should have been used more in the passing game and while I do agree with that, I am not surprised it didn't happen. And I don't expect it to happen going forward because that's what has happened to the WCO as its evolved.

 

The concept? That seems to be a pretty good number.

 

Keenan Allen imo has the best wide receiver skillset for this offense, really good in traffic, great hands, no fear going over the middle, body control, size..when you watch Keenan, check out how he tucks the ball after the catch...it's natural for him caching the ball.

 

I could be wrong and i dont mean any offense, but I think the mistake Perfectville is making is not really distinguishing very well the kinds of blocks being executed. He seems to be placing blocks under an umbrella he calls "pulling" that aren't actually pulling blocks. This seems to be the main source of confusion but instead of resolving the confusion he seems to want to just conclude that nobody around him has any idea what they're talking about other than him. In that way, he fits right in on this board as of late.

 

A lot of times when people think about zone blocking, they think about the old Shanahan Broncos. That's where it got introduced to most football fans, and they ran offensive lines that at times probably averaged in the mid 280lb. range. You do want athletic linemen if you're running a lot of outside zone plays, and those players do kind of overlap with the pulling guard stereotype, but I think the zone blocking = small, fast guys is a bit overblown.

 

Yeah actually that is exactly what it means, as is my understanding. Feel free to furnish quotes from coaches that use the term interchangeably.

 

I think he wasn't used as much b/c he's primarily a check down guy on a team that used short and intermediate routes the majority of the time to begin with. If we had WRs/TEs who could force the LBs and and DB's into deeper drops then he'd be more effective.

 

Why do you persist on putting down this forum as if we're all a bunch of idiots? It's quite condescending really.

 

That kind of attitude doesn't impress me. I just don't see the worth in it, and this attitude is what i view (if anything) to be wrong with this forum lately.

There are a lot of people on here that know quite a bit more than you're giving credit for.

 

well, WADR, that is how it sounds when every other post contains a reference to half the forum not knowing this or 30% of the posters not knowing that, etc.