I wonder if Brandon Marshall and Vontae Davis.....

IMO, he'd be fine with better balance than the Bears had this season. He is always going to get the most targets, for the simple fact that he's always been the best WR on any team he's been on.

 

Anyway, those are the things I have been PAID for and recruited for, so I consider myself an "expert" in those things.

 

Oh ****..How could I forget? I have another "impressive sounding" title: Television Script writer.

There...that's about it.

 

Let me rephrase, do great players usually get traded multiple times while in their prime?

Its not like he's leaving teams in FA for big $$. It's more like despite his immense talent teams would rather not have him around.

 

I was a fire watcher, wastepaper basket repairman, and porn star, before becoming a special agent for the Federal govt, but don't tell anyone, or you may have to be sanctioned.

 

I was sure that "making naive posts about the Miami dolphins" would have made the list.

Just kidding.


Sort of.

 

If you look at the number of targets he was right in line. Sure his production doubled but so did his targets. And with double the number of targets he didn't increase his TD totals.

 

There's nothing in-line with previous production.

Brian Hartline ran only 85 more routes than he did in 2011, and put up almost double the yardage. He also caught the ball at a much higher rate than he did in 2011. That's the Brandon Marshall effect.

That's not mentioning that him staying the same(which he didn't really) would represent an improvement in the sense he was doing it at much greater competition.

 

You are doing it wrong.

 

They are only naive to the idiots that disagree. Sort of.

 

By all means, please have at it. Because your claims to authority don't really cut it when you've done sweet **** all to substantiate the idea you're any good at it.

 

yeah that's because our WR corps is so bad, he gets put into the #1 slot, which means he gets more targets. If this was the exact same Brian Hartline, running his routes in 2012 with the exact same number of plays, but we have a Fitz, we have a Marshall, we have a Jennings, his targets would be less. He gets more targets per route ran because there is nobody better in front of him.

And once again you cherry pick numbers, only comparing his rate to the previous year, and calling it the Brandon Marshall effect. Marshall was here in 2010 right? So was it the Marshall effect when He caught the ball at 59%? See how you leave 2010 completely out because it doesn't jive with your narrative? 59%, 53% were his previous two catch percentages. Average the two out you get ... 56%. Precisely what he caught in 2012. Sure he did it with sometimes the better DB, I'll give him that. But his production is right in line with the previous two years.

You like efficiency. I like efficiency. I see targets, not routes ran as the bigger factor. You probably do too, which is why you quoted it. Hartline produced right where you expected him to once you double his targets. Which you expect to do when you field Bess, Nanee, Gaffney, Armstrong along side him.

 

No, his targets wouldn't have been less. Not in this offense. If we re-sign Brian Hartline, he will almost certainly have nearly the same number of targets as whomever else is starting opposite him, and he'll likely have pretty close to the same workload.

I'm going by PFF's numbers.

Nor is catch % really production.

How in the **** does it make the slightest bit of sense look at targets and ignore routes run? It doesn't make any sense to separate them, much less put that kind of emphasis on them given the nature of this offense.

 

I explained it to you before. You failed to understand it. You were either too stupid, or faked not understanding it due to pride.

Anyway..the search feature exists.

Only Davone Bess improved without Marshall, of every single member of the passing game, and that was as of 3 weeks ago, so that might have changed.

and I am very good at this, at least that's what several EP's tell me.

 

This type of analysis can be achieved when you are not too prideful to admit you are wrong.

Nice job.

 

Final PFF coverage ratings for cornerbacks:

Vontae Davis: +5.7, ranked 23rd
Sean Smith: +0.3, ranked 58th
Nolan Carroll: +0.4, ranked 55th
Jimmy Wilson: -3.7, ranked 87th
Richard Marshall: +2.0, played less than 25% of Miami's defensive snaps
RJ Stanford: -5.4, played less than 25% of snaps
Dimitri Patterson: +0.6, in a game and a quarter
Bryan McCann: -0.4, played less than 25% of snaps

 

out of shape, new system, and hurt and vonate still makes sean smith look like the **** corner he is but its ok people on these forums will think smith was quote on quote the starter in training camp just because jeff clownland wanted some draft picks. Also dont even get me started on the people who think hartline is better than marshall.

 

No, you didn't so much explain it as threw it out there then made grandiose claims that weren't really supported by anything.

Not to mention, that's not at all what I asked you to do. Pay attention.

 

How in the hairy hell is hookers not on that list...have you been lying this whole time?

 

and...blow.

BTW guys..FinD IS an expert on Graphics and logos. Just throwing that out there.

 

well ask specifically what you want me to analyze.

Maybe things changed, but I thought you wanted to know the impact Marshall made on our passing game. Again, maybe it changed in 3 weeks, but as of 3 weeks ago, only Davone Bess had improved with Marshall gone.

 

I don't agree with that. I know many like PFF but I don't trust their grading when it comes to coverage. I've seen them give a player the wrong assignment before. Davis hasn't played that well and Ireland made the wrong choice on draft day IMO.

 

I think for the most part, I only really trust PFF for certain things. I have a hard time seeing how you could judge someone in coverage without actually knowing what their assignment is. Certainly they probably could determine the coverage some of the time, but I don't think they could accurately decipher schemes all the time.

 

Brandon Marshall is on a playoff team?

 

There's a difference in watching every snap and studying every snap.

 

Brian Hartline almost doubled his passing yardage on just 85 more routes run, and did so as a primary receiving option. An explanation for why this is not representative of improvement beyond "IUNNO THEY THREW HIM THE BALL MORE??? HE SUCKS" should pretty much go without saying.

 

He is the same player he's been since he was drafted. Best corner on the team from 2009 through 2011 and would have been too in 2012. I suggest he was not around Philbin long enough for Joe to really know if he is the kind of player he wants on his team.

 

If he was the best CB, but 3rd on the depth chart, then that is a serious indictment of Philbin/Coyle.

Whats interesting is that Philbin actually said on HK that Vontae wasn't having much of a problem in terms of maturity, which means him being that low on the depth chart wasn't so much about his personality/work-ethic/etc.

 

You don't agree with all, or just do not agree with Vontae's rating?

 

I suggest he would not have remained 3rd corner very long, and when we see how well Wilson did not do, we can see how much being weak at 3rd or nickel corner can hurt a defense.
Preseason depth charts are not etched in stone.

 

Just discussing Davis but I can say in confidence that he hasn't been better than Smith.

 

it doesn't. you got to drop this "routes run" nonsense. His targets in his role is what matters. Down and distance on those targets matter.

I am busy till late afternoon, and I will work something out then.

 

Can you?

 

Not always, no.

 

When saying that, you have went back and watched every play of both?

 

Watched every play? No, I'd be full of it to say that. But I have studied an abundance.

 

Actually, the comparison between Davis and Smith is not the one that needs to be made anyway. Had Davis not been traded, he'd have at the very least taken most of the snaps that Wilson did, even if he did not win back his starting job.
Wilson killed us in coverage much of the time, and Carroll is no great shakes either. When it comes to being a ball athlete, Carroll makes Sean Smith look like Asante Samuel in comparison.
The bottom line IMO, that while the extra draft picks may help Miami put together a winning team in the future, depending on how Ireland uses the picks, there was still the 2012 season to play in the meantime. No one can ever convince me that the 2012 53 man roster was stronger without Davis than it would have been with him.

 

His routes run is functionally a part of his role, and I don't see how you can possibly not understand that. It allows you to put many things in context. If someone ran a bunch of routes and has little targets, he did a ****ty job. If someone didn't run that many routes, but was very productive, they did a good job.

If someone was elevated beyond their station, such is what is being argued by Hartline, it should be pretty easy to see. He should have a large amount of targets(he doesn't), that he was extremely inefficient on(he's not), and his quarterback's rating when throwing to him would be bad(it isn't).

 

I wouldn't try to convince you that the roster was stronger without Davis than it would have been with him. But it was pretty apparent that Davis was not someone that Philbin/Coyle "liked" or had confidence in and he wasn't going to be a starter. Carroll does not do a good job of finding the ball, but he generally does a pretty good job of staying with his man. Wilson had some times when he struggled, but so did Davis (both this year witht he Colts and in past years with the Dolphins). Overall our pass defense in 2012 was about equivalent to our 2011 pass defense. I doubt having Davis would have gotten us into the playoffs or won any more games for us this year and now that the year is over, I'm happy to have the extra picks. If I thought Vontae would be a starter here next year and beyond I might feel differently, but I don't think he would be even if he was still on the roster.