ESPN's TOTAL QBR: Comparing Tannehill to all recent QB's first season as a starter

I didn't suggest that you did. Who is "the talent"?

EDIT: I got you now. Misunderstood you. I wouldn't call plays the way Sherman calls them now.

We don't know that. You could point the finger at Mike Sherman, who was the same play caller last year at A&M.

It would, as would Mike Sherman's Dan Henning-like play calling.

 

Check the edit.

As for the comparisons, yes to GB. No to Philly.

 

Henning was never dangerous despite being Coryellian. Historically vanilla.

 

More multiplicity in general.

You can be vanilla and dangerous, yes. But you must be very good at what you do.

It was Coryellian to a degree. It just lacked the creativity that you typically see with Coryellian coaches.

 

Yeah, I mean what's the play call that springs to your mind as Henning's best? The F Post call to Pat Cobbs out of the backfield vs. Oakland is it for me and that's the only F post I recall him ever calling.

He was good the year Miami won the division but other than that, he was gradually getting worse during his reign.

 

Lord, please stop with the Tannehill thread. I beg you.

 

PrintIf you give Ryan Tannehill an effective running game, he will carve up opposing defenses with his arm. That is one of the biggest lessons the Miami Dolphins should take from Tannehill's solid rookie season.

According to ESPN Stats and Information, Tannehill has completed 67.1 percent of his passes off play-action this season. That is the highest completion percentage in the AFC East, which includes Pro Bowl quarterback Tom Brady.

Tannehill also has six touchdowns off play-action passes compared to just one interception. His QBR is an impressive 90.2, and Tannehill averages 10.33 yards per attempt.

Miami's running game has picked up down the stretch, which is why it's no surprise the same can be said for Tannehill's numbers. The 2012 first-round pick is a good athlete who can make all the throws. Tannehill is simply lacking experience and a better supporting cast.

The Dolphins have plenty of cap room and draft picks to fix their problems. The biggest issue for Miami should be to make sure Tannehill gets all the support he needs next year to be successful.

Nice article by James Walker [says it all]

 

am I the only one who finds it ironic that the leader of the ISG (Ireland Support Group) vehemently defends Tannehill's performance by blaming the lack of talent around him?

 

I agree that the total QBR is horrible for what the OP is trying to prove. A large part of this score is based on things that have nothing to do with the QB. For example, if two QBs throw INTs in the 3rd quarter on the 50 yard line, but one opponent's offense runs for a 50 yard TD while the other goes 3 and out, then their scores will be different. Total QBR is much more of a measure of how good your team is than as an individual measure of your QB.

 

And yes, Shouright's thread was a ridiculous overuse of the QBR stat that ignored so many relevant factors that are obvious to anyone watching the game in the name of objectivity, but you chose a stat that does an even poorer job of measuring the individual QB's performance.

 

But has has wasted resources at those spots. What if he drafts more Jalen Parmeles, Pat Whites, Lex Hilliards, Patrick Turner, Daniel Tomas, Clyde Gates, Egnew, BJ Cunningham, etc.? He put together a good defense and a QB ... after 5 drafts. That is Matt Millen-esque.

I mean, it's not like he built the team in a couple years. It's been 5 drafts.

 

LOL. Millen-esque. Sure.

 

ISG? Is there a Facebook page for this?

Gee.

 

lol man if i had a dollar for every time i heard a dolphins fan say that

 

well they do have one thing in common...it seems they're the only two GMs in recent memory who won't lose their jobs despite 4 straight losing seasons.

 

Excellent question. From what I see we have trouble with both.

 

That's a bold statement. Ireland has been pretty good at adding FA. Not so much when it comes to finding game changing players in the draft.

 

Last year was by far our best draft in year's, but Ireland had 4 straight losing seasons. I would can his fat azz myself, but I would not be suprised he get's on more year to turn things around.

 

Are you sure?

I thought you were supposed to argue for pages and pages and pages. I mean shouldn't you be telling rafael he's cherry picking stats or not being objective or that he doesn't understand the complicated process with which you did your work in?

 

So since you were openly high on Chad Henne's future when he was here (and still are?), perhaps you could take a look back at his stats during his first season as a starter and tell us where you went wrong, since whatever method of evaluation you were using outside of statistics was obviously unreliable?

 

Not that Raf needs defense from me but what you dfine as high on? Raf has always said Henne was limited in ceiling he merely said he could be an avg qb that could perform w a good cast.

Again you have never been wrong? and raf wasnt really wrong he never said henne would succeed, but it was a good diversion trick

 

Dont you know Shous golden rule: When you cant attack the post, attack the credability of the poster.

 

There is no one here, including myself, who has significant credibility based on his subjective perceptions alone. We're fans! We're nobodies! Right?

Once we can agree on that, which should be easy enough, we can start to look at some objective measures that are more valid and reliable. This is the whole effort of sites like Pro Football Focus, for example, which people quote here often. Instead of basing what they say on the perceived credibility of some all-knowing "guru," they try to be as objective as possible and develop valid statistics and reliable measurements.

If that's not everybody's cup of tea, that's fine, however. Not everybody here shares that interest, I'm sure. That's one reason for which the ignore function can be used, possibly, and I'm totally fine being on the ignore lists of as many people as possible whose interests here are diametrically opposed to my own.

In the end, subjectivity can't be eliminated completely, but we can sure do a lot better than "because Joe Shmoe said so." Aqua4Ever04's effort in that other thread was a good one and a representative one, for example.

Either way, there's probably not much more I can do with all this. Let's just sit back and enjoy the game today, eh?

 

We apparently can't look at objective measures, because you won't accept them unless they point in the direction of your won preconceived notions.

We've proved you wrong in every way possible, but you don't have the fortitude to admit your approach and the conclusion from that approach was wrong. You've done more to try and prove other people wrong, then prove yourself right. Which is trend with you.

In the end, stop lecturing us, because when it comes to cherry picking, agenda-based bias, misuse of numbers, a misunderstanding of stats, lashing out at other posters, and basically ignoring common sense, you're more guilty then any of us on this specific topic.

I mean you create the thread so it can be discussed and argued yet you act like a petulant child when virtually no one agrees with it, then you turn around and give shula a lecture on being a fan on a message board. It is beyond ridiculous at this point...for the sake of the board just stop.

 

I am not opposed to try to find data and info that can show answers or predict future etc. What I believe the issue or the issue to me, is the clear dismissal of evidence that refutes parts of those stats. As if by refuting them or not even acknowledging them, they arent real and dont exist. Stats arguments are a waste of time if you just look at numbers. I cant be any clearer, in football the individual does not determine his numbers alone, so to say the role the wrs or the tes or the rbs or the ol play is so insign in teh creation of stats is ridiculous IMO.

examples can be given, stats can be provided. It doesnt matter, one thing alone does not tell the complete story

 

I'd suggest you put me on your ignore list and never read another post of mine again.

 

Then why does he leave Brady in to pad his stats in blowouts? Eh?

 

If anyone else has done this, I apologize. I've not read through the entire thread.

Ever since the retirement of Dan Marino, the Dolphins have been searching for his heir. There's been a lot of talk about Tannehill and whether or not he was worth the pick. It's nearly impossible to say there will ever be another quarterback like Marino, but I thought since we were comparing stats, let's compare him to the rookie season of the god of quarterbacks.

Quarterback Rating:
Marino: 96.0
Tannehill: 58.4

Pass attempts:
Tannehill: 449
Marino: 296 (11 games played)

Pass Completions:
Tannehill: 262
Marino: 173

Completion %
Marino: 58.4
Tannehill: 58.4

Total yards
Tannehill: 3059
Marino: 2210

TD/Ints:
Marino: 20/6
Tannehill: 12/12

Avg yards per completion:
Marino: 7.47
Tannehill: 6.8

Rushing TDs:
Marino: 2
Tannehill: 2


While Tannehill beats Marino in a couple of stats, the stats that count most Tannehill still needs much improvement; TD's and victories. If Ireland can get Tannehill his "Clayton" and "Duper", who knows...maybe Tannehill can bring us some success for years to come.

 

To prove a point.

 

And what point would that be. That he risks injury to his star players to stroke his ego?

 

If you did a large-scale comparison on it, I suspect you'd find that the above stat was what made Marino so special as a rookie (in addition to his QB rating, of course).

Rookie QBs typically have problems with interceptions and rarely do as well as Marino in terms of TD to INT ratio.