Does this change your opinion of Jeff Ireland? it does for me...maybe.

I don't necessarily disagree with you . . . .

 

The more things change the more they stay the same.

 

You can't win with guys like that.

 

I'm guessing Jeff Ireland isn't going to go on record saying when and why he was moving on from Marshall. So no, I don't have quotes.

And once again, I'M NOT IMPLYING THE TRADE WAS MADE WITHOUT PHILBIN'S CONSENT. Really not sure where you are getting that from my posts.

 

That is laughable. He didn't separate himself from anything -- he was asked directly if he had any regrets and he said he didn't. There is nothing contradictory about the two statements at all: "we" decided it would be best and I don't really have any regrets about it.

And the Dolphins aren't really a "one voice" organization, as evidenced by the fact that both Ireland and Philbin commented on the trade. That's two voices.

And your last paragraph only makes sense if the decision wasn't really his, but the news reports indicate that it was. If the trade was done at his request and initiative, there would be absolutely nothing unusual about his responding as he did to a question about whether he regretted it. The normal response to a question about whether one regrets a decision that he didn't make is to indicate that in some way. It is not to say "no, not really."

 

Dan Marino regularly berated coaches DURING THE GAME.

And it was awesome.

 

I don't have the time to dig up the quote but I do remember Joe Philbin once explicitly saying something along the lines of he's never coached Brandon Marshall before so he can't say whether he's good in the locker room or not.

 

Again, you said the idea that it was done at Philbin's initiative was "absurd," meaning so ridiculously unreasonable as to have no rational relationship to human life. If you think Philbin agreed with an supported the trade, the notion that he might have been the first one to suggest it cannot be considered "absurd."

 

Pfffft, guys a cancer. It spreads...it's science.

 

I guess I'm of the belief that Ireland is dictating personnel moves, not the other way around. I think the Garrard/Flynn decisions back my view up. You have Flynn being lowballed and Ireland signing a guy in Garrard he tried to add LAST SEASON.

 

I know it is your belief; I'm asking for the support for it. And no, I don't see Flynn being a good example. I think Flynn is more likely an example of Philbin saying "he's pretty good and would be nice to have in there to compete for the job while we groom Tannehill, but he's not a frachise QB. If you can get him for a reasonable price, get him, but don't overpay." I don't think it's credible to think Philbin was pushing hard for Flynn and we just lowballed him.

Garrard was one of the very few experienced and cheap QB options out there. The fact that Ireland inquired about him the year before doesn't suggest he had any special fetish or affinity for him. If anything, the fact that Philbin had him as the clear No. 1 so early in camp suggests that Philbin was a big fan of Garrard.

 

Joe Philbin explicitly stated that he doesn't get anywhere near the issue of numbers when it comes to what Jeff Ireland is going to offer players. He explicitly stated it.

 

Please don't insult my intelligence with megatron jabs...it's unbecoming of you. Getting cj, nannee and the young wrs he acquired was equivalent of fixing a leaking boat with band aids. Highly inadequate.But I'm not sure if you are saying he plugged holes adequately or he did the best with what was available? In either case I disagree unequivocally. No, there weren't a million options but there were options. Ireland simply failed to plan adequately for this season.

 

Watching Moore and Garrard compete in camp was not Inspiring, as soon as the kid came in, it was all different, and obvious that he should be the starter..so maybe Philbins enthusiasm was just because of what he was dealing with..

In hindsight, I think bringing in Garrard was a mistake, if you know your taking a rookie with your # 1 pick then you know you want him at least as your backup with a sense if urgency to get him in there playing, Moore coming off a 6 and 3 finish was more than capable to bridge that gap.

 

Inspiring or not, all of the reports that I recall seeing indicated that Garrard was clearly in the lead for the starting job and that Philbin/sherman liked him. The point is that I don't think the signing of Garrard is any indication that Philbin was not involved in the personnel decisions in the offseason.

 

How about a link to what he actually said, as opposed to your mischaracterization of it?

Does anyone seriously think Philbin was pounding the table for Matt Flynn regardless of price and Ireland simply decided not to give his new offensive-guru HC that he just hired the franchise QB he wanted?

 

Lets also not forget that the early 70's Miami Dolphins had 6 future HOF'ers and a HOF coach. The absolute best Wr, the best Rb trio as well. That's a hellava lot of talent. Sure they played well together but TALENT was a much of a part of it as anything.

 

You forgot to sign this



The 2011 San Antonio Spurs

 

We can only go by what is said but saying they would have cut him is something that could have been said just to try and calm things down with fans. In my opinion they would not have cut him. Not right away if at all.

 

No. What I did was point out, Cameron never got a fair shake, because the team was against him before he stepped foot on the property and because of that the veteran defense slacked off the entire offseason and cost us the first four games of that season.

If it wasn't for Taylor, Porter and Holliday, we might not have been 1-15 at least, they are just as responsible as Cameron was anyway. And if it wasn't for that, we never would have been saddled with POS Parcells.

 

I'm sure you'll have an equally watered down version of your adamant Jeff Ireland defense years after he is fired.

 

There's better place for you to put that accusation.

I didn't water anything down. That's how I felt then, its how I feel now. Its why I'm no longer a JT fan.

 

I'm sorry I wasn't around when Cam Cameron defenses would have been happening or at least not on this board so I cannot say whether you're backpedaling or not.

I'll take your word you're being consistent. Fact is, Cam Cameron was a terrible head coach who allowed terrible things to happen to this franchise. To blame that on players is like blaming students when a poor teacher loses control of a classroom. Someone good at their profession doesn't allow that to happen.

You've also pinned a lot of Jeff Ireland's failure on others such as Parcells, coaching, etc. It's very easy to blame things on folks that are no longer here and sometimes as Dolphin fans we try to defend the Dolphin players and staff still around. I don't blame anyone for that at all, I just wish more of you would admit that at least some part of your defense for Jeff Ireland stems from being a die hard fan or to use a term that's too often unfairly looked upon as ugly - homerism. I know you and others will insist your defense of Jeff Ireland has nothing to do with being a die hard fan or (GASP) a homer. It becomes harder and harder to do that if you have a track record of defending under performers who ultimately fail as Miami Dolphin players, coaches, or in this case - GMs.

I have no problem admitting to a long track record of being a homer towards many Dolphin players over the years, so please, I hope nobody takes any offense to me using the word. Sometimes that word is considered worse than a racial slur on this board.

 

Ugh, seriously, this is whole conversation and your take on it are effing ******ed.

My non hate of Ireland has nothing to do with homerism. It has to do with FOR THE BILLIONTH TIME, not knowing how much he was responsible for the time Parcells was here. Read that as many times as it takes for you to understand it. I'll wait......

.......
.....
.......

.
..
.

......



Ok, now I've heard all the arguments from both sides and I'm still not sure what moves Ireland is responsible for before last year. Having said that, I think last year's off season was poor and I think this year's offseason was amazing. Call that homerism if you want, but if you do, it will be because you lack the mental acumen to understand anything outside your own bull**** and simplistic take on things, unless you can round it down to a common denominator like, "Ireland bad".

As for, Cameron, I'm not rehashing it because **** it, him and you.

Funny how you admit you weren't here and can't possibly know if I was/am consistent but that didn't stop you from making a pathetic and ***** accusation.

 

When you need more than two curse word replacements in a post there is a problem.

Chill man.

 

You're right, but not with me.

When I have to restate my stance over and over and over to people who accuse me of basically lying or say I think something even though I've consistently and repeatedly explained it again and again, it cause a couple of expletives.

The problem is the irrational hate brigade that make it impossible to discuss anything on these boards.

 

I honestly wasn't trying to get you that riled up, but once again, that's what that word does I guess. Even though all of us by spending as much time as we do on this board are all adamant Homers we can't stand to have anyone even hint that we might be guilty of it.

I know your opinion. I've read it a million times. I understand your opinion. You're shifting blame. The same way you did with Cameron.

You claim I'm just an Ireland hate mongerer even though I've cited evidences of his lack of production just as many times and in just as many threads as you've shifted the blame.

I think it's very possible you and others believe you are being 100% objective. You'll get mad at me for saying so, but I think whenever you defend anyone from a team you are a die hard fan of, it's impossible to take homerism out of the equation completely.

I respect your opinion, no need to let my thoughts ruin your day. Merry Christmas!

 

Sigh. If I'm being homerish, why did I hate the Parcells hire and was one of only a tiny few to be against it? Why did I think we kept Sparano on too long? Why do i say we haven't succeeded since Shula because we've gone about our power structure all wrong? Why did I predict only an 8-8 season? Why do I think JT is diva? Why do I think Peyton is a better QB than Marino? Why did I want Wanny not hired and then fired every year he was here?

Those are not homerish acts. It pisses me off you're using that term because it doesn't apply here not because the term is bad. Its just wrong and you keep using it, because as I said you can't understand other opinions.

You don't understand the first thing about my opinion, so don't tell me what my opinion is about and that you respect it. You can't possibly do either of those things when you can't begin to comprehend it. That's not me saying I have a complex take on this either, because I don't.

I don't know which moves Ireland is entirely responsible for before last year. It really begins and ends there. Last year he sucked. This year he hit a homerun. How does saying last year sucked make me a homer?

 

Well, I'd say saying he hit a homerun this year with his performance in free agency and mediocre (so far) draft class is the very definition of homerism.

 

What was I wrong about? I never said Cameron was going to be great. I said thanks to those three players Cameron was set up to fail. Hey that's fine, screw that guy I don't care, but because of their BS and his lack of leadership we went 1-15. I had to endure a 1-15 season as a fan. We probably still would have had a losing season if those guys had tried, but it wouldn't have been 1-15.

 

Of course you would. That is the very definition of a hater.

 

If you think Joey Porter wasn't trying in 2007 you weren't paying attention to the games.

 

My ***.

Watch the first four games again.

 

Really? Holding Jeff Ireland to task for a free agency that produced not 1 single impactful starter or depth makes me a hater? Ok.

 

Porter NEVER gave up on that season. Every loss made him angry. I watched every minute of that season and for you to say Porter gave up is 100% revisionist history.

 

WADR, can you provide a baseline for comparison to show us why you think this is a mediocre draft class? If this is "mediocre", then what is an "average" NFL draft class in your opinion?

 

Yes, in a year where we got Tannehill, Martin, Vernon, Randall and happened to get our coach of the future in Philbin, I think its silly to ***** about FAs.

 

You're wrong. The defense cost us the first 4 games of that season. I remeber because I was infuriated seeing Porter and taylor sucking wind in the 2nd quarters of those games. Talk about revisionist history.