You knew within three or four posts somebody would come into the thread and assault the 2nd amendment.
That's the problem padre. Tragedies like this just make people emotional. All rationality is thrown out the window, and i don't really blame them. Like i said above, moreso since the person responsible for doing the harm, is more often than not killed, thus leaving everyone with anger and no one to direct it to. Hence the overwhelming gun outcry.
True, it's not so much that even, the BoR is not a suicide pact per se and there are mechanisms for amending it to prevent it from becoming one. My goodness though, not even 10 hours from this tragedy and this is where we are? Really?
Well, even a complete step back into objectivity on firearms related deaths would lead one to logically draw a conclusion that firearms are an issue, the question then becomes should any new laws or policies be passed to deal with the situation? I think that is a fair question to ask, even though from what I understand the murderer came from NJ and they have strict strict firearms laws there so perhaps new laws are of dubious value?
The most important question is can the government enforce any new policies set to deal with the situation. If they stopped wasting countless millions against pot they may actually be able to effectively regulate who has assault rifles.
No not really, and that is what i said above. You can come up with a million laws to control firearms. Even the strictest of laws, outlawing them altogether. However that will not stop something like this from happening. You cannot prevent something like this, not in any conceivable way. Short of predicting the future, no amount of laws will ever abolish this sort of horrific tragedy. Going after guns is just deflecting blame and looking for some manner of revenge to ease your own personal pain or frustration.
Its ****ing disgusting. **** is happening way to frequently and is a big problem. Guns are just way to accessible for these nut jobs.
Police shed no light on the motive for the attack. The gunman was believed to suffer from a personality disorder and lived with his mother in Connecticut, said a law enforcement official who was briefed on the investigation but was not authorized to publicly discuss it. - From Yahoo. People who are known to have mental issues shouldn't be living in a house, especially one that has guns in it. Should have put him in a mental hospital.
20, 20 f**king children are dead and still you just don't get it. Or don't want to get it. Unbelievable.
I'm not sure anyone is advocating banning guns, just better gun control. You can mock Europe and Canada all you want, but both places have real gun control policies in place and mass shootings almost never take place. Meanwhile, in the U.S. it happens every few months.
Number four stuck out for me: This has been what a lot of us having been screaming about, there is a disconnect in today's youth and how we are raising them. I saw someone bring up video games and movies and what have you today as a possible reason for young adults going off the deep end and taking it out on society and immediately get shouted down by the anti-gun crowd for being stupid. So it shows me this won't get fix because one set of people are too set on saving their machine gun and the other too set to blame everything on it. But back to this number, what gun laws have really changed to explain the high rise in mass shootings? Because to me that's the real question, you can address all the gun laws you care for but no matter what you do if this problem with our youth is not addressed it will happen again and again, no matter what laws you have on the books, monsters like James Holmes and today's killer will find their way.
I don't care for other nationals smugly telling us what to do, as much as I'm sure they don't like us telling them what they should do, that is where my anger came from. And it wasn't the first time. And how was I mocking Europe and Canada? By saying I'm glad we're not them? Because I am glad, we are flawed as everyone else but in my mind we are still the best, why should we want to be anybody else?
Sounds like this mentally ill, disillusioned guy felt mom loved her students more than him and went off in a jealous fit of rage.
Nobody - Or at least I - didn't smugly tell you to do anything. Just saying gun control (notice I said control, not ban) in your country might be something that should be looked at more closely.
Yes they did, you even thanked it: http://www.thephins.com/forums/show...ntary-School&p=1933413&viewfull=1#post1933413 I work up in Dansbury every few months - its neighboring town to Newtown- and I know the area and the people. it broke my heart to see what happen today, one of the worst days I can ever remember, the last thing I wanted to hear at that moment was a lecture from a know it all from across the seas.
I hate to say this but gun control or gun bans will not prevent tragedies like this. As long as there are people troubled enough to decide that killing 20 children for no reason at all is something to do, no law will have any hope whatsoever of preventing such a thing.
Despite all the tragedies that result from guns, their heavy presence amongst our population at least helps deter any potential self-serving attempt to implement martial law by any corrupt government, present or future. I wouldn't want to make the public that powerless. Well, there's already corruption, but a powerless public would provide motivation for greater corruption. I simply couldn't take for granted a scenario where martial law could never happen in this country.
You just asked the million dollar question. I honestly do not have a great answer for you. The answer is to teach people to resolve their personal conflicts in a nonviolent nonlethal manner. I understand your reaction that the guy used a gun so the natural response is to take away his gun. That however imho is a simplistic attempt at solving a complex problem that wont solve it. Part of the human condition is determination. When we feel like we suffered an injustice some of us go to any means necessary to vindicate ourselves. I dont know how to cure the need for revenge. I do know that even if we removed all guns from the planet we would still kill one another. IMO the most effective way to minumize violent crimes is create effective deterents. By disarming people we are eliminating one of those deterents. People should be afforded the right to protect themselves. I'm not a gun nut conspiracist thats walking this earth paranoid of every little bump in the night. I want nothing more then to live in a peaceful world. The reality is that there is too many other people who are not with me on this and are ready to shoot me the first time they decide they dont like me. If it comes to that I am not only entitled to stop them its also my responsibility to stop them so they dont do it to others. You asked a great question bu8t its really hard to answer in a breif format. I can go on n on but I'll stop here so my post isnt too much to read. FTR I really do respect where you are coming from on this I just disagree with your solution.
Fair enough. I guess we read it two different ways. I didn't read as smug or being a know it all. I simply read as someone who lives in a country with strict gun control laws and sees the difference it makes. Guns aren't banned here in Canada, it's just much more difficult to purchase one and to have a license to own it. The gun control laws here have made so not any psycho can walk into a Wal-Mart or whatever and buy a bunch guns and dozens of rounds of ammo.
So we counting mass killings dealt out by the Arab regimes? The Mexican drug cartels? The African genocides in various countries there and elsewhere? You really think this is truth your above statement? Come on... Listen ya'll know my feelings on this I hate the gun loopholes, but for the love of god can we stop looking to the Gov for relief for problems that WE as parents should be handling at home. Creating gun laws, and throwing money at mental health hospitals as a reactionary measure to fix this isn't the answer, it won't work...it jus makes slimeball politicians look good. You want to fix it, be a engaged involved parent, how many people here eat dinner at the table at night with everybody in your house? How often instead of watch TV do you sit down and play a game, read a book, do homework with your kid? Instead of running to play Call of effing Duty....or watch Jersey freaking Shore....seriously real talk here....look at yourselves in the mirror first and get your **** together as a parent and man your house, instead of looking for other people to blame.... fringing Aaron Paul sent some tweets out about gun laws and control etc etc, all the while he plays a drug dealing teacher in a meth lab.....that guy is part of the very problem he thinks should be regulated yet he doesn't see it.....freaking fool.... again guys man your **** up, bond with your family, sit with them, talk to them, raise them right, stop looking for the govt to make your life better. YOU MAKE YOUR LIFE BETTER. Myself and HK were tweeting it today, all you saw on twitter was "make sure you hug your kids today and tell them you love them" wrong wrong wrong....you should be telling them that everyday all day.... i am so effing pissed right now I can't think.....
Its extremely annoying watching people argue against gun control as if it were gun banishment. This thread is back logged with that tunnel visioned nonsense. We will never ban guns as we will never over turn Roe v Wade. We absolutely need gun control. Law makers need to sack up and treat those who possess illegal/unregistered guns as terrorist and individuals conspiring to murder. Otherwise it will be more limp gun policy. Fully Automatic weapons need to be outlawed, and illegal ownership needs to be treated as the aforementioned. Sorry Cooter, but you're giving up yer Sally. Active military and law enforcement only. And the weapons should only be located at law enforcement facilities. Every gun in America needs to be registered and accounted for. Those seeking ownership need to be screened and evaluated thoroughly and repeatedly every few years. And just like the car insurance business, those in their household need to be taken into consideration too. If you as a parent failed, and raised some psychotic malcontent, sorry, but you lose your PRIVILEGE. If you have to raise your brother's, not good rotten kindling, cuz he in the can? Sorry, choose, family or your privilege. Any dependent with any sort of psychological issue or with a history of delinquency, needs to raise a red flag. We clearly can't handle guns as a society. There are ways to make people accountable. And I can see wanting them while laws are too lose, and the bad guys out there have no fear of attaining them. But there needs to be a future goal. And for Gods sake, if every school had just 1 cop on duty on the premises, a lot of these massacres could be averted. More spending? Sure, but more jobs too. That piece of **** would have never made it in this morning if an active, armed cop was on duty. ****, cops in NJ make a ton anyway. Mandate everyone 2 hours a week.
I agree with a majority of this post, however my HS has had a full time SRO(local cop) since 2000, and they were not able to prevent a kid walking into school after he had been suspended for driving his car on the football field, going into the assistant principal's office who expelled him and shooting her in the head, and then shooting his way out of the building. He was a cop's son and used his dad's service weapon. He ultimately killed himself as well. It is a good start to have uniformed officers at schools daily, but how many will it take? Finyank is spot on. It all starts at home. Teach your kids the difference between reality and TV/video games. Be available for them.
Its true, but wishful thinking. Parents fail their children in droves. Many people today are simply not equipped to be a decent parent. A cop on duty may not be able to save a life, but he could possibly prevent a mass murder. And it would certainly help the odds.
Myself, I'm more speaking about what I see on facebook, twitter, etc....I saw a ton of cries for the outlaw of guns altogether, including my idiot cousin who went on a lecture ALL day on facebook about the evil of guns, barely mentioned a word about the killings.
WADR, in most cases these people don't seem homicidally psychotic until they finally snap and show the world they're psychotic. How do you determine who keeps a gun and who doesn't if they have no prior record? Should there be laws stating anyone who fires an employee, cheats on their spouse, breaks up with their significant other, or treats a patient with depression has to report that person to officials so that their gun privilege can be investigated? We need to be placing more focus on what's causing all these mental illnesses/neurological problems that make these people snap in the first place, like excessive chemical & toxicity exposure, pesticides, and excessively altered foods (including via microwave), to name a few.
Fair enough. Because I don't think I saw a single poster say they thought guns should be banned here. I could be wrong, I often am. But its all about control. Now reports are coming out that it's the Mom's gun, and that this kid had a history of mental illness. The mom should have been screened and re-screened and denied the right to have a firearm. Like the Columbine kids getting their weapons at an unregulated, ridiculously lax gun show. Black Market sales is not where these horrific mass murders are taking place. Crime on crime violence is where. Occasional collateral damage and innocent bystanders get killed and thats awful. But with more gun CONTROL, some of this nations darkest moments could have been avoided. And again, fully automatic weapons are a joke. Its self indulgent and selfish. Just ban those already. Folks don't need them to protect their trailers.
Guys, this is next to my hometown and I have a cousin who survived this event. She works at the school. She stepped over the Principal's dead body on the way out. I realize there is a knee jerk reaction here to get political immediately, men are fix it types after all. I don't blame anyone. But I ask you to let the bodies get cold first. One of the take away lessons I took from this, as a human, a father and as a teacher, is that the most precious things in your life can be taken away at anytime, anywhere. Give your loved ones a sincere I love you next time you are able. I pray you all have long, happy, fat and boring lives with all of them.
I think both approaches should be taken. I've talked to you in great depth about the wellness stuff, and agree and appreciated the conversations. But warning signs are out there too. A maladjusted kid, kids who required psychological therapy and/or medication, kids with a juvenile record, all should be redflags for non-firearm homes. I'm not a policy writer, but its not that hard, and there are painfully obvious directions. Today, and Columbine could have been averted with such simple policy as household accountability, and gun show regulation. Simple stuff here.
I appreciate that. As a father of a kindergartener, this shook me to the core, and I don't know how the families go on. Sorry for what your community is going through. Sorry that the rest of the country and world is helpless in aiding them and easing their pain.
if you can take away how precious, and absolutely delicate, life is.... ...then I guess we'll be the better off for it following this tragedy. Be a better friend, boyfriend, husband or father. Just do it now, we all know how.
I'm confused. You said we will never ban guns and expressed annoyance at people confusing gun control with gun outlawing, yet you call for assault rifles to be outlawed. Really, stricter gun controls will only ever achieve positive results in normal gun associated crime. (Armed robbery, assault, gang violence, etc) That alone is reason enough to support a stronger application and enforcement of gun control laws. However that is not the reason we are here talking. Horrible tragedies like these are the biggest source of gun outcry, and are frankly, the least preventable of gun crimes. The sociopath who killed all these kids today was from NJ, who is wildly regarded as one of the tougher gun controlled states in the country. More laws will only really affect people who are lawfully seeking to acquire a firearm. Only a person seeking to get a gun lawfully will need to worry about new gun controls. Criminals don't care about the gun laws, they are criminal. People with mental issues might get screened out, though that won't really stop them from getting a gun if they are determined enough. Also mental illness is not always there for people to find. You might be normal and something might trigger your mental illness; these people might already have lawfully acquired a gun. Outlawing guns altogether just puts everyone at the mercy of criminals, and wont eradicate firearms, but make it more profitable to traffic them. What happened today is beyond tragic. I cannot even fathom what the parents of those kids are going through right now. As a distant observer I feel the horror of what happened, and i also feel sadness and frustration that there is very little that can be done to prevent this from happening again. Human beings are evil, evil creatures when they wish to be.
